Plumbing to Manifold

[Addicted2ACRO's]

Hello my friend...hope all is well. I will be receiving the last of my plumbing components tomorrow. I just realized that my current pump will not accommodate a 1.5" hose. What size submersible pump - GPH, Max Lift, etc... should I be looking to purchase for my application.

Thank you

 

[UncommonSense]

Hello my friend...hope all is well. I will be receiving the last of my plumbing components tomorrow. I just realized that my current pump will not accommodate a 1.5" hose. What size submersible pump - GPH, Max Lift, etc... should I be looking to purchase for my application.

Thank you

Hey there!

All is well, a much-needed day off for me here!

That is interesting! What is the max outlet size for the current pump? — I’ve seen some listing 1,800-2,400gph, then using a 1” NPT pump outlet; this is just blatant false advertising!

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

The max size outlet the current pump I'm using has is only for a 1" hose

 

[UncommonSense]

What size submersible pump - GPH, Max Lift, etc...

Anything with a 1.5” hose barb outlet, or even a hard PVC andapter outlet will work, assuming the pump’s outlet is actually that size! (Not restricted down to ~1”)

Your max display drain rate is going to be around 1,400-2,000gph, let’s slpit the difference and call it 1,700gph!

Your chiller can accept probably anywhere from ~500gph-1,000gph…

Any accessories you add to the manifold might consume 500gph each tops!

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

So besides the 1.5" outlet, I'm looking for a pump that produces a minimum of 2,000 gph and what about the lift in feet? How much lift should the pump be rated at?

 

[UncommonSense]

So besides the 1.5" outlet, I'm looking for a pump that produces a minimum of 2,000 gph and what about the lift in feet?

This is where it gets tricky… pumps loose flow with lift height and restrictions in the plumbing…

The pump itself will probably ideally be closer to 2,600-3,000gph listed flow rate, and is lifting roughly 4.5ft/1.5-ish meters… any pump in that flow range will have more than sufficient lift height, but best bet here will be to look up the pump’s “flow curve” to see where you’re at!

Note: some manufacturers don’t have listed pump flow curves, or even listed flows at given lift heights… I try to avoid supporting these manufacturers/brands!

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

I changed my last posting...that pump doesn't come with a 1.5" outlet

 

[UncommonSense]

I changed my last posting...that pump doesn't come with a 1.5" outlet

So it’s not flowing anywhere near what the box claims it does, and a alternative pump with a correctly sized outlet for it’s manufacturer rating is indeed going to be necessary to see any significant flow increase…

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

I just hope that going through all this trouble is going to produce more flow to my display tank

 

[UncommonSense]

I just hope that going through all this trouble is going to produce more flow to my display tank

Oh it definitely will! Considering that your pump, and all associated plumbing is stuck at 1”, this will make a significant difference!

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

Good morning my friend...I found a pump that produces 3200 gph with a max lift of 17ft. With that said...what would your preferred choice be in my situation...GPH or Max lift?

 

[UncommonSense]

Good morning my friend...I found a pump that produces 3200 gph with a max lift of 17ft. With that said...what would your preferred choice be in my situation...GPH or Max lift?

I’d spec for GPH (and reliability) in your situation; max lift is more important when plumbing is undersized, or you’re doing a plumbing arrangement where the sump is remote (like a basement sump)!

Max lift would also be more important if the pump was smaller; many small pumps are not very well made and can’t lift very far… — pumps over 1,200-1,500GPH typically have a significant enough max lift height that plumbing restriction becomes the bottleneck in our aquarium applications!

 

[mcarroll]

I'm late to the party....

FYI, if you want to increase flow with no plumbing changes, you install two pumps in series.....one after another. (Not in parallel as suggested.) This doubles flow pressure, but not flow rate.

In your case this approach (vs parallel) is necessary because of the undersized plumbing, relative to the flow rates you're targeting. More pressure WILL give you more flow, maybe double, but that depends on actual pump performance.

(If you had full-sized plumbing you could downsize your pump but use 2x or 3x pumps in parallel to achieve the target flow without needing an increase in pump pressure.)

But, I would re-calculate your flow requirements for a 180 gallon tank.

4x-5x flow through the sump is plenty for running skimmers and other equipment down there.

180
x 4
720 GPH

I would measure your flow output right at the returns in the tank OR a the drain in the sump (whichever is more convenient) with a 1 quart measuring cup and see what your flow really is. (Hard to trust flow curve data from no-name brands....measure your flow.)

My bet is that you're already over the target GPH mark for your tank – possibly by a wide margin. (Even 5x turnover is only 900GPH.)

I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually downsize your pump to something more correctly-sized (saving power year-after-year in the process).

 

[UncommonSense]

FYI, if you want to increase flow with no plumbing changes, you install two pumps in series.....one after another. (Not in parallel as suggested.) This doubles flow pressure, but not flow rate.

Are you familiar with the cavitation risks, plumbing complications, and starting issues associated with series plumbing pumps?

In your case this approach (vs parallel) is necessary because of the undersized plumbing, relative to the flow rates you're targeting. More pressure WILL give you more flow, maybe double, but that depends on actual pump performance.

we’re working with pumps that produce <10psi here… not operating at 100+psi… doubling the flow rate through 1” sch.40 by adding 10PSI of additional pressure is an unreasonable estimate….

I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually downsize your pump to something more correctly-sized (saving power year-after-year in the process).

I agree, but this isn’t what OP desires…

 

[UncommonSense]

In your case this approach (vs parallel) is necessary because of the undersized plumbing, relative to the flow rates you're targeting. More pressure WILL give you more flow, maybe double, but that depends on actual pump performance.

Current pump, current plumbing; being optimistic about maximum pressure, and pipe length: 18.343gpm

Two of current pump in series, no other changes: 25.94gpm

Same equation for one of current pump, plumbing increased to 1.5” sch.40 PVC: 60.37gpm

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

I'm late to the party....

FYI, if you want to increase flow with no plumbing changes, you install two pumps in series.....one after another. (Not in parallel as suggested.) This doubles flow pressure, but not flow rate.

In your case this approach (vs parallel) is necessary because of the undersized plumbing, relative to the flow rates you're targeting. More pressure WILL give you more flow, maybe double, but that depends on actual pump performance.

(If you had full-sized plumbing you could downsize your pump but use 2x or 3x pumps in parallel to achieve the target flow without needing an increase in pump pressure.)

But, I would re-calculate your flow requirements for a 180 gallon tank.

4x-5x flow through the sump is plenty for running skimmers and other equipment down there.

180
x 4
720 GPH

I would measure your flow output right at the returns in the tank OR a the drain in the sump (whichever is more convenient) with a 1 quart measuring cup and see what your flow really is. (Hard to trust flow curve data from no-name brands....measure your flow.)

My bet is that you're already over the target GPH mark for your tank – possibly by a wide margin. (Even 5x turnover is only 900GPH.)

I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually downsize your pump to something more correctly-sized (saving power year-after-year in the process).

Thank you for your input...

At this moment I have invested in all the plumbing components so I can increase from 1" to 1.5", and a new pump. I'm hoping this will payoff by increasing flow, but in the meantime I will take you advice by measuring the flow.
So it took 5.5 seconds to fill a 1 quart container. Therefore it would take 22 seconds (5.5x4) to fill a 1 gallon container. There is 3600 seconds in 1 hour. If I have done the arithmetic correctly, (according to Google), one return to my display tank is producing a total of 163.64 gallons per hour with my current 1" plumbing. Does that sound correct?

 

[UncommonSense]

Thank you for your input...

At this moment I have invested in all the plumbing components so I can increase from 1" to 1.5", and a new pump. I'm hoping this will payoff by increasing flow, but in the meantime I will take you advice by measuring the flow.
So it took 5.5 seconds to fill a 1 quart container. Therefore it would take 22 seconds (5.5x4) to fill a 1 gallon container. There is 3600 seconds in 1 hour. If I have done the arithmetic correctly, (according to Google), one return to my display tank is producing a total of 163.64 gallons per hour with my current 1" plumbing. Does that sound correct?

This seems astonishingly low! — can we try a larger sample volume? — perhaps a 1g pot, or a 5g bucket?

The longer fill time/larger volume will get you a more precise number!

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

Then if you divide 163.64 by 60 minutes my current set-up is producing 2.72 gallons per minute

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

This seems astonishingly low! — can we try a larger sample volume? — perhaps a 1g pot, or a 5g bucket?

The longer fill time/larger volume will get you a more precise number!

Yes...with my current configuration it would take me some time to set-up. I'll have to get back to you

 

[UncommonSense]

Yes...with my current configuration it would take me some time to set-up. I'll have to get back to you

Understandable…

Let’s rule out something else in the meantime:

Refresh my memory, does your chiller have a valve for flow control on your current manifold, or on the chiller outlet?