PNS Pro Bio Users

[nick654377]

So over the last few months I have been fighting to keep my Nitrates down by water changes every 4 days. I cannot get them below 20 to save my life. After talking with a few people that maintain tanks they recomended PNS Pro Bio. I ordered a bottle and am going to give it a shot.

What I was told is a little different than what it says on the bottle. I have heard two ways to use this stuff.

1. Do a 20% wc and clean the gravel good. Dose 1/4 bottle once a week while leaving the protein skimmer off for 24-36 hours.
2. Do a wc then dose every other day with it.

Who has used this and what were your results. From what I hear it will help both Nitrates and PO4 levels in the tank. How often should I be using this?

65 Gal no sump Hob filter and Hob protein skimmer
SG 1.025
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20-30 depending on the day
Mg 1340
Cal 443
PO4 0.11 (Dose every day with 3ml No3 PO4 x and 3 ml of Phosphate e) This method has been the only way I can get my po4 down with out running a reactor with GFO.

 

[Lyss]

I dose NoPox but didn't find the Pro Bio to work for me when it came to reducing nitrates, BUT I tried a bottle of Substrate Sauce and that absolutely did -- in fact the turning point of my nitrates dropping coincided with when I started dosing it. I dosed the full dose recommend on the bottle for my water volume once a week b/c I didn't want to be over-aggressive and have my nutrients bottom out. I was about to give up before Substrate Sauce, and now I plan to keep that on hand when possible. Just my personal experience.

 

[nick654377]

I dose NoPox but didn't find the Pro Bio to work for me when it came to reducing nitrates, BUT I tried a bottle of Substrate Sauce and that absolutely did -- in fact the turning point of my nitrates dropping coincided with when I started dosing it. I dosed the full dose recommend on the bottle for my water volume once a week b/c I didn't want to be over-aggressive and have my nutrients bottom out. I was about to give up before Substrate Sauce, and now I plan to keep that on hand when possible. Just my personal experience.

So after you even added the Pro Bio and now substate sauce you still use No Pox?

 

[Lyss]

So after you even added the Pro Bio and now substate sauce you still use No Pox?

The bacteria in substrate sauce responds to the carbon dosing -- for me this is what happened, but did not happen with Pro Bio. It's not really a one and done thing w/the NoPox -- you may need to adjust the dose to stay at a maintenance level once you reach your goal.

 

[minus9]

Use PNS at full strength initially, probably twice a week if dealing with elevated nutrients. Substrate sauce has 0.03ppm of PO4 added, which helps to kick start the bacteria. That boost in PO4 probably helped to reduce your NO3. Don’t do water changes to fight nutrients, it doesn’t do anything with nutrient export. Plus, you’re pulling good bacteria from the water column. PNS works, but you need to use it at full strength initially. Turn the skimmer off for the day and kick it back on when the lights go off. Also, it’s worth picking up Yello Sno as well, as it contains some B vitamins that the bacteria need for growth, plus it feeds yours corals. When fighting high nutrients, I use about half the recommended dose of YS, but you don’t have to cut it back that much. I feed my fish a lot, so that’s why I only use half initially. Nopox is too aggressive and those mini roller coaster rides (spikes) of nutrients and alk can set off other issues. PNS works great, but you have to use it properly. Follow the directions, they are there for a reason.

 

[Chris Spaulding]

The PNS does A good job I use it all the time. I use it so much that I am now culturing it.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

So over the last few months I have been fighting to keep my Nitrates down by water changes every 4 days. I cannot get them below 20 to save my life. After talking with a few people that maintain tanks they recomended PNS Pro Bio. I ordered a bottle and am going to give it a shot.

What I was told is a little different than what it says on the bottle. I have heard two ways to use this stuff.

1. Do a 20% wc and clean the gravel good. Dose 1/4 bottle once a week while leaving the protein skimmer off for 24-36 hours.
2. Do a wc then dose every other day with it.

Who has used this and what were your results. From what I hear it will help both Nitrates and PO4 levels in the tank. How often should I be using this?

65 Gal no sump Hob filter and Hob protein skimmer
SG 1.025
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20-30 depending on the day
Mg 1340
Cal 443
PO4 0.11 (Dose every day with 3ml No3 PO4 x and 3 ml of Phosphate e) This method has been the only way I can get my po4 down with out running a reactor with GFO.

Hi Nick.

12-24 hrs is sufficient time to have the skimmer off for this purpose.

Yes, these bacteria will remove NO3/PO4 as they grow, and then those nutrients will be exported along with bacterial biomass via your skimmer. But these bacteria do need to survive and establish themselves to grow. To establish large enough colonies for significant NO3/PO4 removal, you'll need to provide them with lots of habitable living space. This is mainly going to be an anaerobic and preferably illuminated environment (these are facultatively photosynthetic microbes). I see that you just run a HOB for filtration (no sump). Do you have a fairly deep sand bed? Or a large amount of porous biomedia in there somewhere?

The strain of Rhodopseudomonas in ProBio is exactly the same as that in Substrate Sauce, though marine aquarists might observe faster activity from the latter product as it is cultured in saltwater (i.e., it adjusts to the new environment faster). But it's also possible that in at least some cases the more aggressive nutrient sequestration might be attributable to Rhodospirillum, which is an additional PNS bacterium that is only present in Substrate Sauce.

If you're using these bacteria as a food, then adding them steadily is best. However, if you're trying to seed the tank (i.e., establish a permanent population), then it's better to add a lot at once. If you can soak the product into a suitable environment (as described above), that's even better.

Carbon dosing could definitely promote the growth of these bacteria (particularly if you normally maintain lower concentrations of dissolved organics). For that, vinegar is preferable to ethanol.

I hope that helps!

 

[Dennis Cartier]

How important is the photosynthetic environment for these microbes? Can they colonize dark anaerobic areas as well or are they limited by the amount of illumination or lack there of?

I have a filter bed in a my take on a DyMiCo filter, and I think it would be a good match for PNSB, but I specifically kept it dark like the DyMiCo folks do in their filters to keep nuisance algae in check.

I could illuminate the top of the filter, the sanded, from above as their is a clear lexan lid that I was going to make opaque, but could leave clear if required.

For that matter, I wonder if a media reactor filled Matrix and illuminated from outside would work just as well, or perhaps a macro reactor filled with Matrix instead of macro algae?

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

How important is the photosynthetic environment for these microbes? Can they colonize dark anaerobic areas as well or are they limited by the amount of illumination or lack there of?

For that matter, I wonder if a media reactor filled Matrix and illuminated from outside would work just as well, or perhaps a macro reactor filled with Matrix instead of macro algae?

Yes, they can survive in complete darkness, though their reproductive rate is cut by approximately half (at least in one study I've seen).

I haven't tried anything like that myself, but at least in theory an algae reactor filled with porous biomedia should provide a decent habitable place for these bacteria to grow.

 

[mary_chau2005]

Can you use PNS and Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance?

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Can you use PNS and Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance?

Yes!

 

[mary_chau2005]

Yes!

Thank you!

 

[Maureen Hey]

The PNS does A good job I use it all the time. I use it so much that I am now culturing it.

Looking to do the same...was wondering about culture success rate - I'm in Canada and it's gonna be a bit pricey to get the starter so am trying to find more info on the process...TIA for any advice

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Yes, they can survive in complete darkness, though their reproductive rate is cut by approximately half (at least in one study I've seen).

I haven't tried anything like that myself, but at least in theory an algae reactor filled with porous biomedia should provide a decent habitable place for these bacteria to grow.

Also, what spectrum of light would they prefer and do they need a rest period from photosynthesizing like algae do?

What about feeding the bacteria? You mention that they require B vitamins to reproduce, and I was thinking of trying Dr. Tim's First Defense as an additive (Note: I am not certain that First Defense contains B vitamins, but suspect it does).

I am constructing a test reactor using a media reactor and want to give it the best environment for success.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Optimal light spectrum depends upon the species. But "white" light works well for growing all of the three species we cultivate.

Similarly, vitamin requirement depends upon species. A wide spectrum supplement with PABA is your best bet. If it's a human supplement, and/or has anything in it other than natural forms of B vitamins, then I couldn't recommend it. I don't recommend any particular brand/source (we have our own but that's one of few details we reserve as proprietary). Labs often use yeast extract for this purpose; it's a great shotgun approach, but be warned that even a little bit can produce horrific "death" odors as it decomposes.

For those who use PNS YelloSno--that product is rich in all of the essential B vitamins (it contains the entire B-vitamin complex, in fact, including B12). It also includes all of the essential amino acids as well as iron, molybdenum and other elements that enhance these bacteria's growth and performance. Corals don't mind it, either.

Very interesting, hoping for great results with your reactor.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Looking to do the same...was wondering about culture success rate - I'm in Canada and it's gonna be a bit pricey to get the starter so am trying to find more info on the process...TIA for any advice

Keeping watching J&L Aquatics; they indicated today that they'll be carrying the PNS HomeGro kit soon.

 

[jonray]

Fascinating topic. I currently dose brightwell microbacter 7 and kz cyanoclean once a week as a preventative measure against cyano. I assume the Pro Bio bacteria will happily coexist with the bacteria from the other two products. This is all new to me and I want to ensure i am not creating a crazy bacteria soup.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Fascinating topic. I currently dose brightwell microbacter 7 and kz cyanoclean once a week as a preventative measure against cyano. I assume the Pro Bio bacteria will happily coexist with the bacteria from the other two products. This is all new to me and I want to ensure i am not creating a crazy bacteria soup.

There's no evidence that mixing bacteria supplements is any issue, and, fwiw, there's little evidence the bacteria do much from any of them. Some folks have concluded its other ingredients in the "bacteria" that actually lead to effects.

Bacteria bottle

Quick question. Would a biofilm of the bottled bacteria inhibit algae growth? I know that is an off the wall question but you might have run across something on the topic. biofilm of bottled bacteria inhibit algae - compared to what? compared to no biofilm (raw dry rock)? or compared to...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jonray]

Thanks Randy. I think it is very early days in the bacteria game and we are heavily reliant on anecdotal "evidence." I think if there is possibly no harm done by adding bacteria and some potions may even feed corals, it is, on balance, subject to budget, a reasonable way forward for the hobby

 

[dwhanc00]

I just got an order of the PNS Pro Bio and Yellosno and Ocean Magik, do you dose the whole bottle at once? Newer system, about 4 months and fighting a little dino due to low nutrient - Nitrate are around 3 and PO is .02. Thanks.