Polyp Lab Medic actually work?

[Vyper]

Back drop, bad ich outbreak, lost a bunch of fish, learned to quarantine, display went fallow 80+ days, everyone great whole time in observation tank until display was ready, once back in display BAM! ich showing up on Powder Brown Tang.
Tank is Cade 1800 running dual uv, 55watt pentair and 40 watt pentair. Originally 1 for parasites and 1 for bacteria blooms but changed quickly in first outbreak. Tank is 9months old now and only issue I have is gha. Have always fed the best foods, mix of 8-10 frozen foods in a bottle mixed with amino’s, selcon and garlic. Everyone always fat and happy.

Not ready to tear down again and very frustrated I started dosing medic again. First time I tried I was already in a full blown outbreak and showed no help with ich. This time I was in just the beginning stages of it and thought to myself what could it hurt. Did the full 20 day dosing of it at 3x recommended dose. Always dosed 15 minutes before lights out and 15 minutes before lights on. by day 14 all signs of ich had vanished. Knocking on wood, I have had no signs for around 5 weeks now. I have added 2 quarantined fish since so stress events have happened to an extent. I have been watching closely because I have 2 green mandarins from BIOTA patiently waiting for their new home. Once they are in it would be very difficult to ever get them back out. It is very obvious when my powder gets any ich on him. Could medic have actually worked?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Back drop, bad ich outbreak, lost a bunch of fish, learned to quarantine, display went fallow 80+ days, everyone great whole time in observation tank until display was ready, once back in display BAM! ich showing up on Powder Brown Tang.
Tank is Cade 1800 running dual uv, 55watt pentair and 40 watt pentair. Originally 1 for parasites and 1 for bacteria blooms but changed quickly in first outbreak. Tank is 9months old now and only issue I have is gha. Have always fed the best foods, mix of 8-10 frozen foods in a bottle mixed with amino’s, selcon and garlic. Everyone always fat and happy.

Not ready to tear down again and very frustrated I started dosing medic again. First time I tried I was already in a full blown outbreak and showed no help with ich. This time I was in just the beginning stages of it and thought to myself what could it hurt. Did the full 20 day dosing of it at 3x recommended dose. Always dosed 15 minutes before lights out and 15 minutes before lights on. by day 14 all signs of ich had vanished. Knocking on wood, I have had no signs for around 5 weeks now. I have added 2 quarantined fish since so stress events have happened to an extent. I have been watching closely because I have 2 green mandarins from BIOTA patiently waiting for their new home. Once they are in it would be very difficult to ever get them back out. It is very obvious when my powder gets any ich on him. Could medic have actually worked?

Technically, the ingredient in medic (a peroxide salt) does have an affect on ich theronts. However, in real world applications, the dose seems too low to stop a full infection. Raising the dose makes it less reef safe of course. I've messed around a bit with peroxide in general, but I found that it is too indiscriminate in what it oxidizes to be used in a display tank.

Jay

 

[RGoltz]

@Jay Hemdal there is a thread on the @Humblefish site discussing the use of 3% H2O2 together with UV.

I happen to have a friend that manages an engineering/consulting company specializing in water treatment. There is industrial use of H2O2 + UV apparently using the UV to radicalize the H2O2. I also mentioned the Söchting Oxydator and she said they use a similar ceramic membrane with H2O2 in water treatment. There is another thread where @atoll talks about the use of an oxydator.

I have been wondering if possibly we don’t have a sufficient grasp on the use of H2O2. It could be that medic is on the right track. But I suspect using 3% H2O2 on a proper doser together with UV and redox measurement may lead to some interesting observations at least.

I would be curious what @Randy Holmes-Farley would say occurs when the H2O2 is altered by the UV and how this affects other chemical aspects of the water column?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal there is a thread on the @Humblefish site discussing the use of 3% H2O2 together with UV.

I happen to have a friend that manages an engineering/consulting company specializing in water treatment. There is industrial use of H2O2 + UV apparently using the UV to radicalize the H2O2. I also mentioned the Söchting Oxydator and she said they use a similar ceramic membrane with H2O2 in water treatment. There is another thread where @atoll talks about the use of an oxydator.

I have been wondering if possibly we don’t have a sufficient grasp on the use of H2O2. It could be that medic is on the right track. But I suspect using 3% H2O2 on a proper doser together with UV and redox measurement may lead to some interesting observations at least.

I would be curious what @Randy Holmes-Farley would say occurs when the H2O2 is altered by the UV and how this affects other chemical aspects of the water column?

I don't know the affect of UV on peroxides other than it acts as a catalyst and producing -OH. The chemistry beyond that could get interesting. If it reacts with bromine to form hypobromous acid (HOBr), that is a problem, as that is toxic and long-lived in aquariums. I ran some bench testing with hydrogen peroxide and I just didn't find enough compelling reasons to continue testing, plus I didn't have any active diseases to try it out on.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/hydrogen-peroxide-bench-testing.803/


Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ive used this with success and with a UV unit. As Jay stated, it DID work for me but it did take longer. I used Ruby Rally Pro along with it. I had a velvet outbreak and had $2k plus in tangs alone and ran to get coppersafe and it was all they had at LFS , It was $40 !!
I admired the fact that it was reef safe - a chance I took and fortunately I saved all but my Chevron Tang. Is this the way to go - Probably not. Was it worth the $40 - To save a couple thousand in tangs alone - Yes

 

[RGoltz]

@vetteguy53081 were you using medic or 3% H2O2?

Even after fallow and using a well known QT vendor, I am confident that I have ich in my tank. Sometimes stressing events in my tank stress me out and then I go down the rabbit hole of thinking and reading about these things “just in case” I have an issue!

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 were you using medic or 3% H2O2?

Even after fallow and using a well known QT vendor, I am confident that I have ich in my tank. Sometimes stressing events in my tank stress me out and then I go down the rabbit hole of thinking and reading about these things “just in case” I have an issue!

Medic in the little glass bottle

 

[BVF]

Nope

 

[Vyper]

Is there a way to have water tested to verify if ich is still present? If so I would be willing to spend the money for piece of mind and to possibly be able to help others if it really did work.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is there a way to have water tested to verify if ich is still present? If so I would be willing to spend the money for piece of mind and to possibly be able to help others if it really did work.

There is this company, but I've not used them myself:

AquaBiomics

Microbiome testing for aquariums and aquaculture

aquabiomics.com

Jay

 

[Vyper]

There is this company, but I've not used them myself:

AquaBiomics

Microbiome testing for aquariums and aquaculture

aquabiomics.com

Jay

I ordered it from them. We will see how this works. ordered 2 since it was much cheaper to do two of them. I will let everyone know the results.

 

[Tang22]

Back drop, bad ich outbreak, lost a bunch of fish, learned to quarantine, display went fallow 80+ days, everyone great whole time in observation tank until display was ready, once back in display BAM! ich showing up on Powder Brown Tang.
Tank is Cade 1800 running dual uv, 55watt pentair and 40 watt pentair. Originally 1 for parasites and 1 for bacteria blooms but changed quickly in first outbreak. Tank is 9months old now and only issue I have is gha. Have always fed the best foods, mix of 8-10 frozen foods in a bottle mixed with amino’s, selcon and garlic. Everyone always fat and happy.

Not ready to tear down again and very frustrated I started dosing medic again. First time I tried I was already in a full blown outbreak and showed no help with ich. This time I was in just the beginning stages of it and thought to myself what could it hurt. Did the full 20 day dosing of it at 3x recommended dose. Always dosed 15 minutes before lights out and 15 minutes before lights on. by day 14 all signs of ich had vanished. Knocking on wood, I have had no signs for around 5 weeks now. I have added 2 quarantined fish since so stress events have happened to an extent. I have been watching closely because I have 2 green mandarins from BIOTA patiently waiting for their new home. Once they are in it would be very difficult to ever get them back out. It is very obvious when my powder gets any ich on him. Could medic have actually worked?

Just to share my experience. I've been battling Ich for about 1 month in my DT. I have many tangs including a powder brown. All fish were clean for months in my DT until I recently added a few coral frags. 5 days after that I had an outbreak in my tank. PBT had the most dots out of all. For the first ten days I focused solely on water quality and feeding a bit heavier with selcon. It didn't go away, so I then tried food soaked with metro + focus as well as adding a UV. It helped keep the fish ok and eating but it didn't do anything for the cycle of theronts re-attaching. I ordered Medic and have been using it for about 1 week so far at about triple the dose. At first I thought it was garbage. But I stuck with it and my fish are starting to turn the tide. I do see slower activity with my cleaner shrimp, had a snail loss, a few goniporas and SPS which haven't been responding well to the dose amount, but otherwise everything else is ok including a few nems. About 5 days into using it (1hr before lights on, 1 hr after lights off) most of my fish including a YT, Hippo, Desjardini kicked their spots. The PBT is just starting to kick all of the spots by day 8 of using this product. What I'm seeing is possibly just the natural cycle of ich falling off but I'll continue using it until I run out of the stuff and hope the Ich doesn't come back with a vengeance. I know the timing for killing the ich in the free swimming stage is mostly at ~2-9am. Peroxide itself dissipates quickly so there is a tight window for killing the theronts. Realistically this stuff probably won't be able to totally eradicate the parasite. But, for now I'm going to stick with this regime and hope it works.

Medic is comprised of peroxide in dry form and so far based on what I've seen I believe there really is something to H2O2 helping to battle parasites. It's slow, but it's been the only thing that's helped turn the tide for me short of fishing everyone out and treating in QT and running DT Fallow. I was about to go more aggressive with dosing liquid 3% hydrogen peroxide on 4 cycles (including nighttime dosing), but I'm happy I didn't as I most likely would have had some casualties with my shrimp and corals like others who've tried this regime before - as @RGoltz mentions. While dosing medic I have also seen my water become much more clear.

Overall I have been impressed with what H2O2 might be able to do in managed and safe doses. My own experience thus far combined with reading up on the many posts by @atoll and @Lasse on the the benefits of the use of peroxide with Oxydators has led me to purchase one. My goal will be to use H2O2 to achieve a richer O2 environment that will be more healthy for my livestock going forward. The jury on whether Oxydators can help in keeping parasites at bay is still out, but I'm willing to try.

 

[mindme]

Just to share my experience. I've been battling Ich for about 1 month in my DT. I have many tangs including a powder brown. All fish were clean for months in my DT until I recently added a few coral frags. 5 days after that I had an outbreak in my tank. PBT had the most dots out of all. For the first ten days I focused solely on water quality and feeding a bit heavier with selcon. It didn't go away, so I then tried food soaked with metro + focus as well as adding a UV. It helped keep the fish ok and eating but it didn't do anything for the cycle of theronts re-attaching. I ordered Medic and have been using it for about 1 week so far at about triple the dose. At first I thought it was garbage. But I stuck with it and my fish are starting to turn the tide. I do see slower activity with my cleaner shrimp, had a snail loss, a few goniporas and SPS which haven't been responding well to the dose amount, but otherwise everything else is ok including a few nems. About 5 days into using it (1hr before lights on, 1 hr after lights off) most of my fish including a YT, Hippo, Desjardini kicked their spots. The PBT is just starting to kick all of the spots by day 8 of using this product. What I'm seeing is possibly just the natural cycle of ich falling off but I'll continue using it until I run out of the stuff and hope the Ich doesn't come back with a vengeance. I know the timing for killing the ich in the free swimming stage is mostly at ~2-9am. Peroxide itself dissipates quickly so there is a tight window for killing the theronts. Realistically this stuff probably won't be able to totally eradicate the parasite. But, for now I'm going to stick with this regime and hope it works.

Medic is comprised of peroxide in dry form and so far based on what I've seen I believe there really is something to H2O2 helping to battle parasites. It's slow, but it's been the only thing that's helped turn the tide for me short of fishing everyone out and treating in QT and running DT Fallow. I was about to go more aggressive with dosing liquid 3% hydrogen peroxide on 4 cycles (including nighttime dosing), but I'm happy I didn't as I most likely would have had some casualties with my shrimp and corals like others who've tried this regime before - as @RGoltz mentions. While dosing medic I have also seen my water become much more clear.

Overall I have been impressed with what H2O2 might be able to do in managed and safe doses. My own experience thus far combined with reading up on the many posts by @atoll and @Lasse on the the benefits of the use of peroxide with Oxydators has led me to purchase one. My goal will be to use H2O2 to achieve a richer O2 environment that will be more healthy for my livestock going forward. The jury on whether Oxydators can help in keeping parasites at bay is still out, but I'm willing to try.

I doubt adding a coral could lead to an outbreak 5 days later. It would require high amounts of them to be on the coral, hatch and then all find your fish. Most likely is that you already had ich in your tank, and the outbreak coincided with the coral being added. Or it may have been a coral you added weeks prior etc.

I tried the medic stuff and had no results with it. Wasted money. I had velvet, went fallow, QT'd and somehow ich made it into the tank. So I tried medic as a last hope.

Now I just do ich management with UV and keeping the fish healthy. They will occasionally get a dot here and there, but nothing major or life threatening.

 

[aws2266]

I had a small outbreak. One fish with a few spots. Dosed with medic and the outbreak went away. That's been about two months ago and no further signs of ich. My LFS recommended it and so I tried it. I would use it again.

 

[Vyper]

Got my test results back from aquabiomics today and shows my tank is ich free. Now the big question is did the poly lab medic actually work in combination with UVs?

 

[blaxsun]

I used Medic and an oversized UV to successfully treat a velvet outbreak (used the increased dosage for just over 2 weeks). I know others have had mixed results, but it did work for me (and in Canada we have very limited options for medication available).

 

[simplety]

on day 34 after a velvet outbreak in the reef, lost all but cleaner, melanarus, flame hawk, pink spot goby and a baby regal. Tried rally, seemed to have made things worse 25 days ago. The fish began to get clouded eyes and the skin flaked off after the third rally dose, and within 30 minutes 4 died. Changed out 15 gallons, started with the reef medic but a much larger than recommended dose. -- actually over double. 14 days later, no signs of any fish in stress and zero white spots or signs of disease. Corals are all normal and looking very healthy, inverts are all great as well. Running a big UV along with the peroxide dosing. I will be sending a water sample out to get tested, but if the baby regal tang has made it through this disaster, lost a beautiful 8 year old fat and healthy tomini tang, powder brown, emperor angel, three butterfiles, coral beauty, boxfish and a dragon goby. Other fish show zero signs of anything and eat like pigs. Daily heavy feedings of mysis, brine mixed with garlic and selcon to hoepfully keep them vitalized. I do believe the peroxide salt dosing has helped in the outcome

 

[FishOkay]

I started dosing it for just under a week but stopped as I had to turn off ozone, Carbon and gfo at which point considering what it is I thought it was probably pointless. My ozone is doing the same thing as what medic would be doing except I've got the increased phosphates from no gfo so to me it's not worth it.

 

[Projects with Sam]

I've used Medic twice with suspected ich in the tank and so far, *knocks on wood* have had luck with it. I got it the next day for $30 from Amazon - well worth it in my opinion.

 

[mindme]

I've used Medic twice with suspected ich in the tank and so far, *knocks on wood* have had luck with it. I got it the next day for $30 from Amazon - well worth it in my opinion.

I hate to break it to you, but it'll come back next month/cycle.

What you are seeing is just the normal life cycle of ich. The white dots on your fish are not the actual parasite, it's the fishes immune system repairing the hole the parasite left when it burst out from under the skin, dropping eggs all over your tank for the next generation.

Fish heal really quick, so you see the white dots one day, and then they disappear the next day giving the illusion that the dots "fell off". This gives people the false illusion that whatever they did "worked" and that is how companies like this stay in business despite putting out a product that doesn't fix the problem.

I've wasted money on that stuff as well is how I learned.

The entire life cycle of ich can take up to 72 days depending on the specific species. So you're going to think everything is good for a month or so, and then one day you're going to see dots on your fish again.