Possible Brooklynella Outbreak?

hmfaysal

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I hope everyone is having a better day than me. I have a red sea reefer nano and a custom 120 gallon tank with no QT setup. In fact the nano acts as a quasi-qt tank for the larger 120 gallon. I had two snowstorm clowns which I received 2 weeks ago, 2 saltwater acclimated mollies (2 months in the tank), 1 yellow coris wrasse which I had for 5 months, 1 prawn goby and 1 pistol shrimp pair added 1 week ago, 1 cleaner wrasse, 1 old cleaner skunk shrimp and 1 fire red shrimp in the nano. I have few lps and soft frags growing in the nano as well.

The symptoms started 1 week ago, very mildly with one of the clowns hovering over the sandbed, eating and everything, just slightly lethargic, no visible signs of anything. I thought its just clowns being clowns, or maybe stress related as the prawn goby and pistol had been added at that time. From then, things started going south very quickly. Next day, that clown was sitting on the sandbed with visible lack of strength, breathing rate was higher than usual, but not rapid, other fishes doing just fine, at night, the clown was on its side constantly trying to stay up. I thought of putting it in an isolation box, or even giving it a freshwater dip, but decided against it as it may increase stress even further, as at that time I thought it was stress related. 3rd day, clown was rapidly breathing, on its side, and the other clown was sitting on the sandbed, looking exactly like the first clown on the first day of symptoms. I checked the parameters, 1.024 salinilty, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 ppm nitrate, 0.85 elevated phosphate from chaeto die off in the reactor, 11.5 elevated alkalinity, 425 calcium, 1350 magnesium, 8.7 ph. Little messed up due to the recent chaeto die off and use of red sea coral pro salt, but still within range. The sand looked dirty, and it had looked dirty for a while now, and with this kind of phosphate in the water, I did not expect a clean sand bed anyways. I was running minimum amount of gfo in a reactor to bring it down slowly. I was at my wits end, I did not know what disease it was, it did not look like velvet to me, and I still don't know what brooklynella looks like. The first clown passed away early midnight, with the other clown hovering or sitting beside it.

4th day, the yellow coris wrasse was stuck with the wavemaker breathing heavily. I helped it get away, but it looked like the wrasse wanted to be stuck with the wavemaker. I missed the symptoms on the yellow wrasse as its spends most of its time under the sand, and is only out for 4-5 hours everyday. The prawn goby did not look well either, it just sat infront of its burrow looking sad, slightly elevated breathing. The 2nd clown was on its side, breathing rapidly, almost no fin movement. I went to my LFS to buy the mildest form of medication available, specifically API general cure, they didn't have it at the moment, instead I got safety stop rapid quarantine and one bottle of tropical science fishkeeper.

The yellow wrasse passed away almost instantly after being added to the first solution of safety stop. 1 and half hours of quarantine baths later, I added the fishes back to the display tank, and in the meantime, I changed 60% water, also washed the sand killing almost all microfauna. Added prime, added a bit of microbacter 7, and ts fishkeeper. The goby passed away after a few hours right on its burrow.

Miraculously, the 2nd clown started showing improvement on the 5th day, it started eating. Currently its swimming all over the tiny aquarium, looks a little weak, but regaining strength everyday.

The most interesting part of this whole ordeal was the saltwater acclimated mollies did not show any signs of symptoms. Those fishes are happily roaming about as nothing has happened. The disease, the rapid qt, the water change, the addition of ts fishkeeper, nothing has any affect on these fishes. The inverts and corals also seem unaffected by all these.

Can someone kindly help diagnose this disease? I will add photos of the 1st clown fish right after it passed away.

IMG_5300.jpg


IMG_5301.jpg
 

MnFish1

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Not all mollies 'die' of saltwater parasites - i.e. some parasites do not affect them). I would suggest you had a velvet outbreak - brought in by the new additions. It's always hard to tell after the deaths. Many people do not recommend using mollies as a 'canary in the coal mine' - for various reasons (@Jay Hemdal ).

Your parameters do not look that 'off' - and since the inverts are doing fine I would doubt a toxin. I would take the rest of the fish (are there any left?) treat with a quarantine protocol - and leave your tank fallow for 45-60 days.
 

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I am so sorry to hear this happened to you and I'm sorry for your losses. I am not an expert so let's get the pros involved. #fishmedics will be able to provide some insight as to what this might be.

Edit: It looks like the experts beat me to this post. Ignore my comment.
 

vetteguy53081

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I hope everyone is having a better day than me. I have a red sea reefer nano and a custom 120 gallon tank with no QT setup. In fact the nano acts as a quasi-qt tank for the larger 120 gallon. I had two snowstorm clowns which I received 2 weeks ago, 2 saltwater acclimated mollies (2 months in the tank), 1 yellow coris wrasse which I had for 5 months, 1 prawn goby and 1 pistol shrimp pair added 1 week ago, 1 cleaner wrasse, 1 old cleaner skunk shrimp and 1 fire red shrimp in the nano. I have few lps and soft frags growing in the nano as well.

The symptoms started 1 week ago, very mildly with one of the clowns hovering over the sandbed, eating and everything, just slightly lethargic, no visible signs of anything. I thought its just clowns being clowns, or maybe stress related as the prawn goby and pistol had been added at that time. From then, things started going south very quickly. Next day, that clown was sitting on the sandbed with visible lack of strength, breathing rate was higher than usual, but not rapid, other fishes doing just fine, at night, the clown was on its side constantly trying to stay up. I thought of putting it in an isolation box, or even giving it a freshwater dip, but decided against it as it may increase stress even further, as at that time I thought it was stress related. 3rd day, clown was rapidly breathing, on its side, and the other clown was sitting on the sandbed, looking exactly like the first clown on the first day of symptoms. I checked the parameters, 1.024 salinilty, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 ppm nitrate, 0.85 elevated phosphate from chaeto die off in the reactor, 11.5 elevated alkalinity, 425 calcium, 1350 magnesium, 8.7 ph. Little messed up due to the recent chaeto die off and use of red sea coral pro salt, but still within range. The sand looked dirty, and it had looked dirty for a while now, and with this kind of phosphate in the water, I did not expect a clean sand bed anyways. I was running minimum amount of gfo in a reactor to bring it down slowly. I was at my wits end, I did not know what disease it was, it did not look like velvet to me, and I still don't know what brooklynella looks like. The first clown passed away early midnight, with the other clown hovering or sitting beside it.

4th day, the yellow coris wrasse was stuck with the wavemaker breathing heavily. I helped it get away, but it looked like the wrasse wanted to be stuck with the wavemaker. I missed the symptoms on the yellow wrasse as its spends most of its time under the sand, and is only out for 4-5 hours everyday. The prawn goby did not look well either, it just sat infront of its burrow looking sad, slightly elevated breathing. The 2nd clown was on its side, breathing rapidly, almost no fin movement. I went to my LFS to buy the mildest form of medication available, specifically API general cure, they didn't have it at the moment, instead I got safety stop rapid quarantine and one bottle of tropical science fishkeeper.

The yellow wrasse passed away almost instantly after being added to the first solution of safety stop. 1 and half hours of quarantine baths later, I added the fishes back to the display tank, and in the meantime, I changed 60% water, also washed the sand killing almost all microfauna. Added prime, added a bit of microbacter 7, and ts fishkeeper. The goby passed away after a few hours right on its burrow.

Miraculously, the 2nd clown started showing improvement on the 5th day, it started eating. Currently its swimming all over the tiny aquarium, looks a little weak, but regaining strength everyday.

The most interesting part of this whole ordeal was the saltwater acclimated mollies did not show any signs of symptoms. Those fishes are happily roaming about as nothing has happened. The disease, the rapid qt, the water change, the addition of ts fishkeeper, nothing has any affect on these fishes. The inverts and corals also seem unaffected by all these.

Can someone kindly help diagnose this disease? I will add photos of the 1st clown fish right after it passed away.

IMG_5300.jpg


IMG_5301.jpg
Very hard to tell on a carcass especially after 2 hours of death
If brook, you would have experienced:
Loss of color
Heavy breathing
Lethargic behavior
Loss of appetite
Heavy mucus around face
 

vetteguy53081

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I hope everyone is having a better day than me. I have a red sea reefer nano and a custom 120 gallon tank with no QT setup. In fact the nano acts as a quasi-qt tank for the larger 120 gallon. I had two snowstorm clowns which I received 2 weeks ago, 2 saltwater acclimated mollies (2 months in the tank), 1 yellow coris wrasse which I had for 5 months, 1 prawn goby and 1 pistol shrimp pair added 1 week ago, 1 cleaner wrasse, 1 old cleaner skunk shrimp and 1 fire red shrimp in the nano. I have few lps and soft frags growing in the nano as well.

The symptoms started 1 week ago, very mildly with one of the clowns hovering over the sandbed, eating and everything, just slightly lethargic, no visible signs of anything. I thought its just clowns being clowns, or maybe stress related as the prawn goby and pistol had been added at that time. From then, things started going south very quickly. Next day, that clown was sitting on the sandbed with visible lack of strength, breathing rate was higher than usual, but not rapid, other fishes doing just fine, at night, the clown was on its side constantly trying to stay up. I thought of putting it in an isolation box, or even giving it a freshwater dip, but decided against it as it may increase stress even further, as at that time I thought it was stress related. 3rd day, clown was rapidly breathing, on its side, and the other clown was sitting on the sandbed, looking exactly like the first clown on the first day of symptoms. I checked the parameters, 1.024 salinilty, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 ppm nitrate, 0.85 elevated phosphate from chaeto die off in the reactor, 11.5 elevated alkalinity, 425 calcium, 1350 magnesium, 8.7 ph. Little messed up due to the recent chaeto die off and use of red sea coral pro salt, but still within range. The sand looked dirty, and it had looked dirty for a while now, and with this kind of phosphate in the water, I did not expect a clean sand bed anyways. I was running minimum amount of gfo in a reactor to bring it down slowly. I was at my wits end, I did not know what disease it was, it did not look like velvet to me, and I still don't know what brooklynella looks like. The first clown passed away early midnight, with the other clown hovering or sitting beside it.

4th day, the yellow coris wrasse was stuck with the wavemaker breathing heavily. I helped it get away, but it looked like the wrasse wanted to be stuck with the wavemaker. I missed the symptoms on the yellow wrasse as its spends most of its time under the sand, and is only out for 4-5 hours everyday. The prawn goby did not look well either, it just sat infront of its burrow looking sad, slightly elevated breathing. The 2nd clown was on its side, breathing rapidly, almost no fin movement. I went to my LFS to buy the mildest form of medication available, specifically API general cure, they didn't have it at the moment, instead I got safety stop rapid quarantine and one bottle of tropical science fishkeeper.

The yellow wrasse passed away almost instantly after being added to the first solution of safety stop. 1 and half hours of quarantine baths later, I added the fishes back to the display tank, and in the meantime, I changed 60% water, also washed the sand killing almost all microfauna. Added prime, added a bit of microbacter 7, and ts fishkeeper. The goby passed away after a few hours right on its burrow.

Miraculously, the 2nd clown started showing improvement on the 5th day, it started eating. Currently its swimming all over the tiny aquarium, looks a little weak, but regaining strength everyday.

The most interesting part of this whole ordeal was the saltwater acclimated mollies did not show any signs of symptoms. Those fishes are happily roaming about as nothing has happened. The disease, the rapid qt, the water change, the addition of ts fishkeeper, nothing has any affect on these fishes. The inverts and corals also seem unaffected by all these.

Can someone kindly help diagnose this disease? I will add photos of the 1st clown fish right after it passed away.

IMG_5300.jpg


IMG_5301.jpg
Also Mollies in saltwater will contract and are prone to both ich and fungus
 
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hmfaysal

hmfaysal

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Not all mollies 'die' of saltwater parasites - i.e. some parasites do not affect them). I would suggest you had a velvet outbreak - brought in by the new additions. It's always hard to tell after the deaths. Many people do not recommend using mollies as a 'canary in the coal mine' - for various reasons (@Jay Hemdal ).

Your parameters do not look that 'off' - and since the inverts are doing fine I would doubt a toxin. I would take the rest of the fish (are there any left?) treat with a quarantine protocol - and leave your tank fallow for 45-60 days.
I am leaning towards velvet as well, but nothing looked velvety per se. Things just happened so quickly. Yeah, the 2nd clown, both mollies survived, also the shrimps. I will order two 10 gallon qt tanks soon, going fallow for two months would be the right thing to do now. Thanks for the help
 
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hmfaysal

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Very hard to tell on a carcass especially after 2 hours of death
If brook, you would have experienced:
Loss of color
Heavy breathing
Lethargic behavior
Loss of appetite
Heavy mucus around face
The snowstorm clowns were white, very hard to see any color loss. This white coloration confused me the first couple of days of the outbreak. I noticed the heavy breathing, lethargic behavior and loss of appetite. Again couldn't really see any mucus around the face, maybe it was there, but couldn't see because of the white coloration of the fishes.

The yellow coris wrasse was bright yellow, did not see any mucus when it died. Same goes to the prawn goby, it looked slightly discolored when I found it dead, semi buried in its burrow, but it was a pale fish from the get go. I guess based on other answers in this thread, what I faced was a velvet outbreak. I am leaning towards velvet now, but idk
 

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The snowstorm clowns were white, very hard to see any color loss. This white coloration confused me the first couple of days of the outbreak. I noticed the heavy breathing, lethargic behavior and loss of appetite. Again couldn't really see any mucus around the face, maybe it was there, but couldn't see because of the white coloration of the fishes.

The yellow coris wrasse was bright yellow, did not see any mucus when it died. Same goes to the prawn goby, it looked slightly discolored when I found it dead, semi buried in its burrow, but it was a pale fish from the get go. I guess based on other answers in this thread, what I faced was a velvet outbreak. I am leaning towards velvet now, but idk
FYI - I would not stress too much about this outbreak - since it can't be fixed. Going forward - I would have some kind of QT protocol in place that you religiously follow. Sorry this happened to you - and best wishes - please feel free to ask here - any questions!!!!!!!!
 

Jay Hemdal

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I am leaning towards velvet as well, but nothing looked velvety per se. Things just happened so quickly. Yeah, the 2nd clown, both mollies survived, also the shrimps. I will order two 10 gallon qt tanks soon, going fallow for two months would be the right thing to do now. Thanks for the help

Your scenario sounds like Amyloodinium/velvet, 100% right up to the point where you mentioned that the second clown recovered on its own - that just never happens when I've dealt with this disease. Therefore, I can't really say what is going on here. The lack of reported mucus rules out Brooklynella and I don't see any water quality issues.

Jay
 

MnFish1

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Your scenario sounds like Amyloodinium/velvet, 100% right up to the point where you mentioned that the second clown recovered on its own - that just never happens when I've dealt with this disease. Therefore, I can't really say what is going on here. The lack of reported mucus rules out Brooklynella and I don't see any water quality issues.

Jay
:) I'm going to disagree. I had a total fish tank wipe out - except for 1 clown lol:). No clue - its anecdote
 
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hmfaysal

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FYI - I would not stress too much about this outbreak - since it can't be fixed. Going forward - I would have some kind of QT protocol in place that you religiously follow. Sorry this happened to you - and best wishes - please feel free to ask here - any questions!!!!!!!!
Thank you for the encouragement. Yeah, I think this lesson was important. Also glad it happened during the first year into the hobby.
 
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hmfaysal

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Your scenario sounds like Amyloodinium/velvet, 100% right up to the point where you mentioned that the second clown recovered on its own - that just never happens when I've dealt with this disease. Therefore, I can't really say what is going on here. The lack of reported mucus rules out Brooklynella and I don't see any water quality issues.

Jay
I don’t know whether the clown turned around on its own, I pulled all the living fishes and gave them 1 and a half hours of safety stop rapid quarantine two part bath, changed 60% water, pulled the dirty sand along with pods, bristle worms, critters and force wash with clean water. Then added the recommended dose of this tropical science fishkeeper. Attaching the photo of the bottle, idk whether this medicine helped or not.
1E97A7BB-61A4-4529-AF6E-1CE5DC280DA8.jpeg
 

Jay Hemdal

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I don’t know whether the clown turned around on its own, I pulled all the living fishes and gave them 1 and a half hours of safety stop rapid quarantine two part bath, changed 60% water, pulled the dirty sand along with pods, bristle worms, critters and force wash with clean water. Then added the recommended dose of this tropical science fishkeeper. Attaching the photo of the bottle, idk whether this medicine helped or not.
1E97A7BB-61A4-4529-AF6E-1CE5DC280DA8.jpeg

I can't tell you if that product has any merit, or if it is just another "snake oil" product because they don't/won't list their ingredients. I never use a product if they don't list the ingredients, in fact, at work I can't use it because to do so, I need to have an MSDS/SDS on file for it.

It might be a probiotic.

The burden of proof is on the company to prove their product works.....the first step to that is being transparent as to what exactly is in it.

Jay
 
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hmfaysal

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I can't tell you if that product has any merit, or if it is just another "snake oil" product because they don't/won't list their ingredients. I never use a product if they don't list the ingredients, in fact, at work I can't use it because to do so, I need to have an MSDS/SDS on file for it.

It might be a probiotic.

The burden of proof is on the company to prove their product works.....the first step to that is being transparent as to what exactly is in it.

Jay
you are right, the bottle does not mention ingredients on the label, but it does mention its probiotic. If I have to bet, I would probably take the large water change in the nano tank made the 2nd clown come back. Also I forgot to mention I added 2.5 ml prime anticipating ammonia surge as I rinsed the sandbed while doing the water change.

I will repeat here, I stripped the tank as I had to catch the fishes. Took out all the sand and washed it with fresh water as it looked dirty, not detritus per se, but diatoms and bits of af life source mud and soil.
 

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