Powder Blue Troubles

[ajremington68]

Got a powder blue on September 7th and did a 2-week quarantine and then added him to the display tank. He was clean and fine before the transfer, however after I started noticing some bumps on him and some whiteish spots on his fins and head. he still eats and swims and is super active, but the spots and bumps that appear to be under his skin aren't getting any better. Now, the video I have is not too good because if I turn on the white lights it changes and he hides until it comes back to blue lights (kept whites on for 2 hours and he didn't come out once...) Is this anything anybody else has seen before on their tang? Any medicine that I could treat him with inside the tank? I have a mixed reef with softies and lps so it is probably something that won't affect them. Also, I deem it impossible to catch him to treat him in a different tank with how fast he is...

 

[ajremington68]

Got a powder blue on September 7th and did a 2-week quarantine and then added him to the display tank. He was clean and fine before the transfer, however after I started noticing some bumps on him and some whiteish spots on his fins and head. he still eats and swims and is super active, but the spots and bumps that appear to be under his skin aren't getting any better. Now, the video I have is not too good because if I turn on the white lights it changes and he hides until it comes back to blue lights (kept whites on for 2 hours and he didn't come out once...) Is this anything anybody else has seen before on their tang? Any medicine that I could treat him with inside the tank? I have a mixed reef with softies and lps so it is probably something that won't affect them. Also, I deem it impossible to catch him to treat him in a different tank with how fast he is...

Also did a Cooper treatment at 2.0ppm+ during those two weeks, with minor fluctuations.

 

[ajremington68]

Bump

 

[CasperOe]

I am sorry that you're having issues with your powder blue. It is extremely hard to see what's going on on those videos.

Allow me add #fishmedic to the discussion; hopefully someone can help you out!

 

[nereefpat]

I can't tell what, if anything, the tang has going on from the blue shots. Sorry.

Powder blue tangs, and their close cousins, are infamous for getting external parasites. A 2 week QT with copper should have treated most ich or velvet infections. But, if your other fish or anything else that's wet wasn't QTd, it sure could show up in this tang.

Reef safe meds, for the most part, don't exist. Anything that would kill ich for instance, would also kill other inverts.

 

[MnFish1]

Got a powder blue on September 7th and did a 2-week quarantine and then added him to the display tank. He was clean and fine before the transfer, however after I started noticing some bumps on him and some whiteish spots on his fins and head. he still eats and swims and is super active, but the spots and bumps that appear to be under his skin aren't getting any better. Now, the video I have is not too good because if I turn on the white lights it changes and he hides until it comes back to blue lights (kept whites on for 2 hours and he didn't come out once...) Is this anything anybody else has seen before on their tang? Any medicine that I could treat him with inside the tank? I have a mixed reef with softies and lps so it is probably something that won't affect them. Also, I deem it impossible to catch him to treat him in a different tank with how fast he is...

So - first - what method of QT did you use. 2 weeks is not standard? Did you QT the other fish in your tank (ie. could the tang have gotten a disease thats in your tank?). All of that said - this could be mucus plugs on the tang, or an external parasite. If the rest of the fish are 'healthy' they could be immune if a disease is active. You could consider Ruby Rally Pro - in your display - However, if you treat in a different tank - I would suggest you treat all, and leave your tank fallow.

All of this is without seeing the pictures you posted (because with my browser - I can't). Would you be able to post pictures in white light?

 

[MnFish1]

PS the copper recommendation is 2.5 ppm depending on which one you were using

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tough to see in the videos, but for a split second i saw the fish's pectoral fin - pretty evident it has ich.

Most amine-based copper products need to be dosed for 30 days at 2.25 to 2.5 ppm.

Treating it in-situ is not really possible once the disease reaches a certain level. It may be past that level now, but if that is your only alternative, you could look into "ich management".

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.


Jay

 

[ajremington68]

This is whites turned up I can cut all blues if that doesn't work just let me know! @Jay Hemdal @MnFish1 @nereefpat @CasperOe

 

[ajremington68]

So - first - what method of QT did you use. 2 weeks is not standard? Did you QT the other fish in your tank (ie. could the tang have gotten a disease thats in your tank?). All of that said - this could be mucus plugs on the tang, or an external parasite. If the rest of the fish are 'healthy' they could be immune if a disease is active. You could consider Ruby Rally Pro - in your display - However, if you treat in a different tank - I would suggest you treat all, and leave your tank fallow.

All of this is without seeing the pictures you posted (because with my browser - I can't). Would you be able to post pictures in white light?

I have a 5-gallon stand-alone system with a hang-on back and heater that I used to treat him. All my other fish had been in the tank for over 2 months and never had ich or any diseases, this tang is my newest fish in a little while. So, I got him from LFS, dripped him for 3 hours, and used Fritz Coopersafe for about 2 weeks he was fine with nothing so I added him to the display and it was downhill from there. I have a royal gramma, a damsel, 2 clowns, a mandarin goby, a watchmen goby, and a couple of shrimp, snails, and hermits. Everyone else is wonderful not a dot on their body just the tang. After looking in whites it looks very much like ich, not sure about the bumps on his side but with his fins and his head looks to be ich. Going to let you guys look it over and tell me your opinion, I can try to catch him or invest in a fish trap and move him back to 5 gallons and do a true 30-day QT with copper safe at 2.5ppm if that is what is deemed best by you guys.

 

[ajremington68]

Tough to see in the videos, but for a split second i saw the fish's pectoral fin - pretty evident it has ich.

Most amine-based copper products need to be dosed for 30 days at 2.25 to 2.5 ppm.

Treating it in-situ is not really possible once the disease reaches a certain level. It may be past that level now, but if that is your only alternative, you could look into "ich management".

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.


Jay

In my main tank, I have a 5W sterilizer from Amazon, but I do not have the money for a big daddy one yet, I test everything twice a week and I did have a random ammonia jump last week and did a 10-gallon water change and it corrected. water is 78-80. If it is ich would it be worth to try to take him from the tank back to the 5 gallon to do 30 day cooper treatment, or would that be to much stress and put him to much at risk?

 

[MnFish1]

In my main tank, I have a 5W sterilizer from Amazon, but I do not have the money for a big daddy one yet, I test everything twice a week and I did have a random ammonia jump last week and did a 10-gallon water change and it corrected. water is 78-80. If it is ich would it be worth to try to take him from the tank back to the 5 gallon to do 30 day cooper treatment, or would that be to much stress and put him to much at risk?

Not sure what a sw sterilizer is? assuming you mean UV - which is also not a SW sterilizer?

 

[ajremington68]

@MnFish1 @Jay Hemdal Let me know what you guys think about the information I have given, if you need more let me know and ill be checking my email. Also if you would like all whites I can do that if the video is not clear enough just let me know! Also thank you guys so much for the help means a lot, want to keep my beauty alive and in the best condition (despite what he looks like right now

 

[ajremington68]

Not sure what a sw sterilizer is? assuming you mean UV - which is also not a SW sterilizer?

Meant a 5 watt UV sterilizer from amazon, not the best but all I could get.

 

[MnFish1]

Meant a 5 watt UV sterilizer from amazon, not the best but all I could get

I think you have a parasite problem - but I cannot view it.

 

[Reef Devils]

Got a powder blue on September 7th and did a 2-week quarantine and then added him to the display tank. He was clean and fine before the transfer, however after I started noticing some bumps on him and some whiteish spots on his fins and head. he still eats and swims and is super active, but the spots and bumps that appear to be under his skin aren't getting any better. Now, the video I have is not too good because if I turn on the white lights it changes and he hides until it comes back to blue lights (kept whites on for 2 hours and he didn't come out once...) Is this anything anybody else has seen before on their tang? Any medicine that I could treat him with inside the tank? I have a mixed reef with softies and lps so it is probably something that won't affect them. Also, I deem it impossible to catch him to treat him in a different tank with how fast he is...

@vetteguy53081

 

[vetteguy53081]

In my main tank, I have a 5W sterilizer from Amazon, but I do not have the money for a big daddy one yet, I test everything twice a week and I did have a random ammonia jump last week and did a 10-gallon water change and it corrected. water is 78-80. If it is ich would it be worth to try to take him from the tank back to the 5 gallon to do 30 day cooper treatment, or would that be to much stress and put him to much at risk?

If your QT tank is a 5 gallon, not is too small even for the smallest PB tang and if UV unit is 5wt green killing machine- will be ineffective. The two week protocol was too short as the fish in essence got 10 days of treatment once copper went into effect. PBT are not susceptible to breakouts as labeled as I have had two different ones within the last year and neither had any issues other than their attitudes.
With such a small tank- you will see continuous ammonia spikes and I recommend minimum 10g, preferable a 20 high or 20 long

 

[MnFish1]

If your QT tank is a 5 gallon, not is too small even for the smallest PB tang and if UV unit is 5wt green killing machine- will be ineffective. The two week protocol was too short as the fish in essence got 10 days of treatment once copper went into effect. PBT are not susceptible to breakouts as labeled as I have had two different ones within the last year and neither had any issues other than their attitudes.
With such a small tank- you will see continuous ammonia spikes and I recommend minimum 10g, preferable a 20 high or 20 long

Agree. The UV is likely not doing much though - I might not turn it off.

 

[ajremington68]

If your QT tank is a 5 gallon, not is too small even for the smallest PB tang and if UV unit is 5wt green killing machine- will be ineffective. The two week protocol was too short as the fish in essence got 10 days of treatment once copper went into effect. PBT are not susceptible to breakouts as labeled as I have had two different ones within the last year and neither had any issues other than their attitudes.
With such a small tank- you will see continuous ammonia spikes and I recommend minimum 10g, preferable a 20 high or 20 long

Okay, I have a spare 20-gallon sitting around I can set up for him, should I just put the HOB filter that is on the 5-gallon to start it up? Because wouldn't I have to wait for it to cycle? I also can take tank water out of my tank to put in and some media to jump-start it possibly.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay, I have a spare 20-gallon sitting around I can set up for him, should I just put the HOB filter that is on the 5-gallon to start it up? Because wouldn't I have to wait for it to cycle? I also can take tank water out of my tank to put in and some media to jump-start it possibly.

yes , and use the filter cartridge for it. . . but - cut the top of cartridge and shake out the carbon allowing filter cartridge to trap micron particles