Prazpro - leopard wrasse labored breathing

alicia24

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I am following the 76 day qt for my leopard wrasse. I did a 30% wc yesterday and dosed the 2nd round of prazi. I had 2 airstones in there. I checked about 2 hours later and realized one of the airstones disconnected. I reconnected it. Did a 50% wc as I wanted to remove the prazi. This was yesterday. Today the fish is still just laying on the sand heavy breathing all day. I did a second 50%wc. I just started running carbon as I didnt think to do yesterday. I'm a bit frustratwd as this is exactly what happened the last time I had a leaopard wrasse after dosing prazi. I didnt overdose it. The fish did act normal for a few minutes tofay and ate then just went back to heavy breathing. Any help would be appreciated!
 

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I am following the 76 day qt for my leopard wrasse. I did a 30% wc yesterday and dosed the 2nd round of prazi. I had 2 airstones in there. I checked about 2 hours later and realized one of the airstones disconnected. I reconnected it. Did a 50% wc as I wanted to remove the prazi. This was yesterday. Today the fish is still just laying on the sand heavy breathing all day. I did a second 50%wc. I just started running carbon as I didnt think to do yesterday. I'm a bit frustratwd as this is exactly what happened the last time I had a leaopard wrasse after dosing prazi. I didnt overdose it. The fish did act normal for a few minutes tofay and ate then just went back to heavy breathing. Any help would be appreciated!
It takes Praziquantel a couple of days to start working and you stopped the cycle. How did you determine flukes?
Aeration is recommended but one pump out would not have caused the heavier breathing.
Assure salinity has not decreased and temperature has not increased as well as ammonia level.
The recommended treatment regimen for prazi is to dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi
 
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alicia24

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It takes Praziquantel a couple of days to start working and you stopped the cycle. How did you determine flukes?
Aeration is recommended but one pump out would not have caused the heavier breathing.
Assure salinity has not decreased and temperature has not increased as well as ammonia level.
The recommended treatment regimen for prazi is to dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi
Thank you! I did not notice any signs of flukes I did it prophylactically per jay's qt regimen. The fish was very healthy and not showing any concerning signs. I had no idea about only doing 80% that makes a lot of sense. Especially with wrasses. Salinity was 1.022 before wc today. I'll check for ammonia but it was a fully cycled qt.
Should I do a 3rd airstone?! I dont know if that would over oxygenate
 

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Thank you! I did not notice any signs of flukes I did it prophylactically per jay's qt regimen. The fish was very healthy and not showing any concerning signs. I had no idea about only doing 80% that makes a lot of sense. Especially with wrasses. Salinity was 1.022 before wc today. I'll check for ammonia but it was a fully cycled qt.
Should I do a 3rd airstone?! I dont know if that would over oxygenate
Your initial post was a little confusing - there is no 76 day protocol - there is a fallow period which can be various days depending on the day - but it has nothing to do with QT treatment or length.

I would not think your issue relates to oxygenation. Did you treat your fish first with copper measured at 2.5 ppm - and then start the prazipro?
 

MnFish1

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PS there is no such thing as over oxygenate. You can put another in - but what you have should be good:)
 
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alicia24

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Your initial post was a little confusing - there is no 76 day protocol - there is a fallow period which can be various days depending on the day - but it has nothing to do with QT treatment or length.

I would not think your issue relates to oxygenation. Did you treat your fish first with copper measured at 2.5 ppm - and then start the prazipro?
Ok maybe I'm wording it wrong but there is a 76 day qt treatment discussed by Jay I can't remember his last name.
I dosed with copper removed the copper did one dose of prazi last week fish was fine but this second dose it is not happy at all and thats how it went with my last leopard and it died.

My paremeters are all normal.

Nh3 0.10 (hanna)
No3 0-5 (api)
Ph 7.9 (api)
Sg 1.025
There is 0.41 of copper (hanna) which I think happened from all these watee changes mixing up the sand bed
 

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Ok maybe I'm wording it wrong but there is a 76 day qt treatment discussed by Jay I can't remember his last name.
I dosed with copper removed the copper did one dose of prazi last week fish was fine but this second dose it is not happy at all and thats how it went with my last leopard and it died.

My paremeters are all normal.

Nh3 0.10 (hanna)
No3 0-5 (api)
Ph 7.9 (api)
Sg 1.025
There is 0.41 of copper (hanna) which I think happened from all these watee changes mixing up the sand bed
If this was a newly acquired fish and you are quarantining it, you are mixing up the protocols for quarantine and clearing a fish free tank from an active case of ich or velvet.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I am following the 76 day qt for my leopard wrasse. I did a 30% wc yesterday and dosed the 2nd round of prazi. I had 2 airstones in there. I checked about 2 hours later and realized one of the airstones disconnected. I reconnected it. Did a 50% wc as I wanted to remove the prazi. This was yesterday. Today the fish is still just laying on the sand heavy breathing all day. I did a second 50%wc. I just started running carbon as I didnt think to do yesterday. I'm a bit frustratwd as this is exactly what happened the last time I had a leaopard wrasse after dosing prazi. I didnt overdose it. The fish did act normal for a few minutes tofay and ate then just went back to heavy breathing. Any help would be appreciated!

Are there other fish in the same quarantine run with the leopard wrasse? If so, and if they are fine, then the problem may be with the wrasse itself - the Macropharyngodon wrasses are a lot more delicate than their presence in the pet trade indicates. In fact, I stopped acquiring them at all - too much of an issue with them for my tastes. Some people do o.k. with them - usually these are fish that have been at a pet store for some time, and are settled in from shipping stress and eating well.

So - has the wrasse has already gone through a full coppersafe treatment? I usually hold off with prazi until I know the fish has been cleared of protozoan issues, and the copper will do that.

Jay
 
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alicia24

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Are there other fish in the same quarantine run with the leopard wrasse? If so, and if they are fine, then the problem may be with the wrasse itself - the Macropharyngodon wrasses are a lot more delicate than their presence in the pet trade indicates. In fact, I stopped acquiring them at all - too much of an issue with them for my tastes. Some people do o.k. with them - usually these are fish that have been at a pet store for some time, and are settled in from shipping stress and eating well.

So - has the wrasse has already gone through a full coppersafe treatment? I usually hold off with prazi until I know the fish has been cleared of protozoan issues, and the copper will do that.

I did do a 30 day copper safe treatment. Removed the copper then did one dose of prazi last week. So this was the second dose. It is the only fish in the qt.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Sorry - your reply was blank.

Jay
 
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alicia24

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If this was a newly acquired fish and you are quarantining it, you are mixing up the protocols for quarantine and clearing a fish free tank from an active case of ich or velvet.
Ok regardless thats not the point of my forum..
 

Jay Hemdal

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Sorry!

I did do a 30 day copper safe treatment. Removed the copper then did one dose of prazi last week. So this was the second dose. It is the only fish in the qt.

O.K., then - I'm not sure what's going on with the fish. In some cases, if a fish has a severe fluke infestation, the first dose of prazi causes all the flukes to drop off at once. The flukes had been acting like little "corks" and when they drop off, the fish literally bleeds out and can die. However, that issue is NOT seen in the second, or subsequent doses. I think the prazi is coincidental to some other, unknown issue with the wrasse. I wish I could tell you what that issue is, but I'm just not sure, other than it could be the general delicate nature of this species.

Jay
 
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alicia24

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O.K., then - I'm not sure what's going on with the fish. In some cases, if a fish has a severe fluke infestation, the first dose of prazi causes all the flukes to drop off at once. The flukes had been acting like little "corks" and when they drop off, the fish literally bleeds out and can die. However, that issue is NOT seen in the second, or subsequent doses. I think the prazi is coincidental to some other, unknown issue with the wrasse. I wish I could tell you what that issue is, but I'm just not sure, other than it could be the general delicate nature of this species.

Jay
I appreciate your input! Hopefully it pulls through. I think it is related to the prazi somehow because this all started happening shortly after.
 

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Thank you! I did not notice any signs of flukes I did it prophylactically per jay's qt regimen. The fish was very healthy and not showing any concerning signs. I had no idea about only doing 80% that makes a lot of sense. Especially with wrasses. Salinity was 1.022 before wc today. I'll check for ammonia but it was a fully cycled qt.
Should I do a 3rd airstone?! I dont know if that would over oxygenate
Salinity as suspected part of issue and bring to 1.024-1.025 and 3rd air stone not necessary. With the low salinity and Prazi- oxygen is slightly reduced which is what you are likely seeing and other ranges you want - Ammonia .025 or less and nitrate 20 or below
Even with cycled tank, these levels can climb , even temporarily
 
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alicia24

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Salinity as suspected part of issue and bring to 1.024-1.025 and 3rd air stone not necessary. With the low salinity and Prazi- oxygen is slightly reduced which is what you are likely seeing and other ranges you want - Ammonia .025 or less and nitrate 20 or below
Even with cycled tank, these levels can climb , even temporarily
Ok thank you I did not know that about salinity! It's at 1.025 after the wc so hopefully tmrw it will be normal. Its back in the sand which I'm taking as a hopeful sign.
 

vetteguy53081

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Ok thank you I did not know that about salinity! It's at 1.025 after the wc so hopefully tmrw it will be normal. Its back in the sand which I'm taking as a hopeful sign.
That is a positive change.
 
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alicia24

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O.K., then - I'm not sure what's going on with the fish. In some cases, if a fish has a severe fluke infestation, the first dose of prazi causes all the flukes to drop off at once. The flukes had been acting like little "corks" and when they drop off, the fish literally bleeds out and can die. However, that issue is NOT seen in the second, or subsequent doses. I think the prazi is coincidental to some other, unknown issue with the wrasse. I wish I could tell you what that issue is, but I'm just not sure, other than it could be the general delicate nature of this species.

Jay
Could you look at this video? Theres something on its mouth not sure if thats sand or what. Should I restart copper?! Im doing a 5 min fresh water dip and not seeing any flukes. I have no idea.
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Could you look at this video? Theres something on its mouth not sure if thats sand or what. Should I restart copper?! Im doing a 5 min fresh water dip and not seeing any flukes. I have no idea.

I see some random mucus and the fish is "coughing", that is also a sign of mucus. The wrasse is breathing a bit fast as well, but given its situation, that would be expected.

You will only see one species of flukes in the FW dip (Neobenedenia) the others all require a microscope to see them, and even then they are tough to see.

I don't see copper as helping here, the fish is moribund (actively dying) - I just don't think there is anything that will work to bring it back around....sorry!

Jay
 
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alicia24

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Ok thank you for your input! Such a bummer. That will be my last leopard wrasse. I feel so quilty.
 

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