Prioritizing "ocean" live rock versus sand

[mp2022]

Ive done dry rock with bare bottom most of the time. I once bought ocean live rock. Would do it again. Depends on budget

Did you find that the cycling time between your bare bottom tanks was significantly faster with live rock vs dry rock? One of the major reasons I am hesitant about bare bottom is that I have read that cycling takes significantly longer than with sand.

 

[SpartaReef]

Ive done dry rock with bare bottom most of the time. I once bought ocean live rock. Would do it again. Depends on budget

Did you find that the cycling time between your bare bottom tanks was significantly faster with live rock vs dry rock? One of the major reasons I am hesitant about bare bottom is that I have read that cycling takes significantly longer than with sand.

The cycle never ends. Live rock maybe saved me a week. Either way i usually wait 30days before adding fish.

 

[Danjoethepirate]

Ive done dry rock with bare bottom most of the time. I once bought ocean live rock. Would do it again. Depends on budget

Did you find that the cycling time between your bare bottom tanks was significantly faster with live rock vs dry rock? One of the major reasons I am hesitant about bare bottom is that I have read that cycling takes significantly longer than with sand.

I find it to be faster to mature. Sand undergoes stratification and different bacteria and other organisms colonize at different rates. With all live rock and no sand it's about as instant as you can get. You will still have some stabilizing uglies but it's fast.

 

[SpartaReef]

Ive done dry rock with bare bottom most of the time. I once bought ocean live rock. Would do it again. Depends on budget

Did you find that the cycling time between your bare bottom tanks was significantly faster with live rock vs dry rock? One of the major reasons I am hesitant about bare bottom is that I have read that cycling takes significantly longer than with sand.

I find it to be faster to mature. Sand undergoes stratification and different bacteria and other organisms colonize at different rates. With all live rock and no sand it's about as instant as you can get. You will still have some stabilizing uglies but it's fast.

Agreed.i still wait to allow a settlement period. Anytime you move a rock or change flow, you have bacteria die off and new colonies form.

 

[Science/G]

Thanks all. What if started the tank with all live rock and no sand at all - is it possible to add live sand at a later date? I kind of like the idea of a bare bottom tank, particularly as I want tons of flow and to have an SPS dominant tank, but know this might limit some of the livestock I have and may want to add sand later (and may not ultimately like the aesthetic).


It took my tank a while, even though I added good live rock initially, to get over the ugly stage, but what was clear was that none of my live rock had any of the nuisance algae, Dinos, etc on it, was only the dead dry stuff and bagged sand.

Your spot on with this. I've been keeping bear bottom aquariums since the 90s. There's so many more problems that come along with substrate then there are benefits. You'll have plenty of biological diversity from live rock and all the filtration you could need. Look into adding pieces of beige acrylic sheets to the bottom before you place your rock. This is a picture when I first set up my aquarium 4 years ago. It offers the best view of this application.

 

[Gulf Live Rock]

These are great for adding bacteria and biome to the aquarium.

https://gulfliverock.com/biome-boosters
https://gulfliverock.com/price-list/ols/products/biome-booster-combo-box
https://gulfliverock.com/price-list/ols/products/micro-package

 

[TheReefAbides]

These are great for adding bacteria and biome to the aquarium.

https://gulfliverock.com/biome-boosters
https://gulfliverock.com/price-list/ols/products/biome-booster-combo-box
https://gulfliverock.com/price-list/ols/products/micro-package

Would it be helpful to add something like the micro package to a 15gal nano tank that has been running for two months? Or would this create problems?

 

[ShawnSaucier]

I’ve done several options in the past. The toughest was all dry rock and bagged sand.
This time I took the time to pre cycle reclaimed rock ( Haitian sitting in the garage) and utilized some Australian live rock rubble and Aqua biomics biome booster. Did this for 6 months while I built out my system.
The tank has been great so far (8 months) Bagged sand, mixed sizes.
I think moving forward next time, I would do something similar again. With the limit on finding live rock that you can pick your pieces, it’s hard for me to commit. Even with the noted outcome of the scape disappearing under coral growth, I still have a year or two of looking at that rock. Reclaimed rock, when cleaned properly, can be a great option. Just take the time to mature it…

 

[fandaga]

I’ve done the TBS method with 100% live sand and rock. It’ll total works. I had no bad new tank period and could grow all corals including acros almost immediately. Having said that, I do have to periodically remove bubble and lettuce algae, and there were some undesirable hitchhikers (e.g. gorilla crabs).

For my new display tank, I’m considering between the full TBS method or Serious Reef’s recommended live sand and dry rock. The main determining factors being that I find a lot of the unusual critters to be extremely interesting from the full TBS method while I can do a far better aquascape with dry rock. I’m leaning towards full TBS.

 

[Gulf Live Rock]

Would it be helpful to add something like the micro package to a 15gal nano tank that has been running for two months? Or would this create problems?

Yes it will. We recommend a yearly inoculation.

 

[Indiana Reefin]

100% live rock. I don’t really buy into the live sand. But you can’t replicate live rock from the ocean IMHO. You can be successful obviously with 100% dry, but margin for error is much smaller. I have always had issues starting out dry.

 

[DmitryB]

I wouldn’t recommend live rock from the gulf/florida. In my experience it’s been covered in predatory crabs and mantis shrimp. The live sand comes with a lot of the bacteria and microfauna with less risk of pests. Especially on a budget, I’d avoid that rock, you’re paying for headaches down the road.

I am somewhat concerned about that. I am not particularly interested in crabs/mantis shrimp although I will be keeping it in a holding tank for a few weeks.

Does anyone have any experience with ordering sand from gulf live rock? How is it packaged? Do you think I could keep it in a separate tank for a few weeks before putting it into a display?

Thanks.

I ordered my sand from gulf live rock. It comes in boxes but the sand itself is in a large bag with a little water. It is much more rubble like than typical sand in a fish tank which is great for microfauna and such and good for high flow tanks.

You could definitely keep it in a holding tank as long as you have a little aeration and heat for the critters.

Is the grain too large for sand sifting fish?

Yes. Those type of fish will need that bagged sand which is relatively fine. Most real live sand is much coarser. You can try to sift through it to get to the finer stuff. The particle size ranges from whole shells to silt. For burying wrasses I am in the process of sifting out some of the rubble so they can get to the finer stuff.

I think I might do the bagged "live" sand for the main display and GLR actually live sand for the sump (probably refugium?)

 

[CheifReeferNB]

I wouldn’t recommend live rock from the gulf/florida. In my experience it’s been covered in predatory crabs and mantis shrimp. The live sand comes with a lot of the bacteria and microfauna with less risk of pests. Especially on a budget, I’d avoid that rock, you’re paying for headaches down the road.

I am somewhat concerned about that. I am not particularly interested in crabs/mantis shrimp although I will be keeping it in a holding tank for a few weeks.

Does anyone have any experience with ordering sand from gulf live rock? How is it packaged? Do you think I could keep it in a separate tank for a few weeks before putting it into a display?

Thanks.

I ordered my sand from gulf live rock. It comes in boxes but the sand itself is in a large bag with a little water. It is much more rubble like than typical sand in a fish tank which is great for microfauna and such and good for high flow tanks.

You could definitely keep it in a holding tank as long as you have a little aeration and heat for the critters.

Is the grain too large for sand sifting fish?

Yes. Those type of fish will need that bagged sand which is relatively fine. Most real live sand is much coarser. You can try to sift through it to get to the finer stuff. The particle size ranges from whole shells to silt. For burying wrasses I am in the process of sifting out some of the rubble so they can get to the finer stuff.

I think I might do the bagged "live" sand for the main display and GLR actually live sand for the sump (probably refugium?)

If I could redo my setup I’d do something like this. Run a triton style system with a massive refugium. Fill it with live sand and TBS live rock. Then go dry rock and bare bottom. That gives you the best of both worlds imo and if you want sand you can add it later.

The benefit of the rock is just the bacteria and microfauna which will make it to the display and serve their purpose as an excellent nutrient filter. It will relegate all pests to a controlled area and they can fight it out down there.

 

[cobraz]

I am of the same opinion as many for good reasons:
Bagged Live Sand for seeding your tank.
Natures or Carib's

Dry rock... or lab seeding live rock..not from the ocean or holding tanks from ocean reason:
Pests, crabs, mantis and all types of cool things at first that will die off and foul a tank.
Even if in a barrel in the dark for a month...things will come crawling out weeks, months later and not all are reef safe..not worth the risk anymore.

 

[DmitryB]

I am of the same opinion as many for good reasons:
Bagged Live Sand for seeding your tank.
Natures or Carib's

Dry rock... or lab seeding live rock..not from the ocean or holding tanks from ocean reason:
Pests, crabs, mantis and all types of cool things at first that will die off and foul a tank.
Even if in a barrel in the dark for a month...things will come crawling out weeks, months later and not all are reef safe..not worth the risk anymore.

What about the advice to dip ocean live rock on hyper salty water to expel the pests?

 

[cobraz]

What about the advice to dip ocean live rock on hyper salty water to expel the pests?

Nope...as it does not kill eggs and other things like sponges etc. The more we play with nature she will bite back.
I have used live rock, years ago picked myself when it was legal and several years ago from one of the largest dealers in Florida..again hand picked from their tanks.
The things that came out when first used and things that came out years later or were so small it took years to be seen.
There is nothing like a sterile tank, that what you put in is what you have.
No aptasia, no spiders, no worms, no crabs, no trouble makers, weird snails or weeds to ruin your day.

In a fish only..it might be ok...until you see your Yellow Tank with an Isopod latched onto its side the size of a dime. Yes, I wish a had a picture of that as it happened about 10 years ago...it looked like Aliens the movie.

 

[wynagain]

Would there be any benefit when going 100% live rock and live sand to getting them from tbs and glr? And mixing them

 

[cartery]

For my 75g, I did about 20% live sand and 20% live rock, all from TBS. It was really fun to see what came out, I had no real ugly stage, and the tank is going super strong 1.5 yrs later with no skimmer or socks. The downside was hitchhikers, including gorilla crabs and two mantis shrimp, but I'd still do 100% live rock and sand if I could afford it.

 

[steveschuerger]

I’ll do live rock every time. But I like weird things. Usually go with live sand but went with plain dry aragonite with no issues this time around.

 

[Klaas]

I am getting ready to set up a new tank (125g) and am trying to prioritize whether to get some ocean harvested sand aka from TBS or gulf live rock versus just buying more live rock (already have a decent amount of both ocean harvest Australian rock from tankstop, some good live rock from my LFS, and dry rock that has been marinating in my system for 16 months now). I am trying to gauge whether or not it is worth it to just add more live rock or add some live sand from TBS or GLR. Obviously ideal world is to get 100% LR and live sand, but if there was a fixed budget, what would you get to optimize biodiversity/filtration?
1) 100% live rock + bagged sand
2) All dry rock + 100% live sand
3) 50/50 live/dry rock, 50/50 live/bagged sand
4) 75% live rock, 25% live sand
5) 25% live rock, 75% live sand

I live in the Philippines so for me it was easy. All live rock and live sand. I also transferred live rock from my old 500 gallon system to the new 1500 gallon system
If available and affordable I would go for both 100% live sand and live rock. However I did get some Aiptasia from my old live rock. But with 4 file fish and one Copperband they are I problem at all