Prioritizing "ocean" live rock versus sand

[Sm1nts2escape]

I used the live rock from my 32g biocube and some siporax to seed my 110g rs 425xl tank. I didn't have any issues at all doing it this way. I don't think you need a ton of live rock to seed your tank. Just needs to be in a higher flow area like the sump so it can disperse nicely. I think 15% live rock with dry sand and a few different types of bottled bacteria dosed about once a week. I prefer Petco Microbe lift special blend and Tropic marin nitrobiotic. Dose the bacteria onto your filter/bubletrap sponge right before your return chamber! Don't forget your bacteria needs stuff to live so you will need fish or a carbon source to help it thrive.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

i would never advise anyone to start with all dry rock unless you are not new to this hobby.

 

[rtparty]

Ocean sand from TBS and dry rock. I see no benefit from live rock. Just brings in a bunch of stuff I don’t want or need.

Pods? Comes with the sand or just add some from the many choices

Macro algae? I don’t want any of it

Worms? Don’t need or want any. Bristleworms will come in with the sand

Sponges? Don’t want them

Coralline? It will come in on frags or snails unfortunately. Even comes with the TBS sand

 

[Shinji Ayanami]

i dont think this matters over time as long as theres something there to grow. but ofc dont have a 1000 gal tank. with no sand , and a lone baseball sized rock sitting in the middle looking stupid as all get out and expect to make something shake.

 

[Shinji Ayanami]

Ocean sand from TBS and dry rock. I see no benefit from live rock. Just brings in a bunch of stuff I don’t want or need.

Pods? Comes with the sand or just add some from the many choices

Macro algae? I don’t want any of it

Worms? Don’t need or want any. Bristleworms will come in with the sand

Sponges? Don’t want them Coralline? It will come in on frags or snails unfortunately. Even comes with the TBS sand

god i am dying to get my hands on some TBS rock. I'm planning to have a alone BTA in a deskmate classic (possibly bare bottom) but i already have enough inert dry rock. my only concern is ending up like the Bobbitt worm guy.

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

I’d go with 100% legit live sand and dry rock in most cases. That is based on these experiences.

Sterile dry rock and dry sand is the Wild West. Who knows what is going to win, but it is often the photosynthetic slimes. High PAR greatly increases the likelihood that the slimes win. There are things that can influence this but it’s always a gamble.

Live rock can solve some of the slime issues because it comes with the good, but it also comes with the bad and the ugly. Funky forms of algae become the bigger concern. And in rapid, high-PAR tanks, slimes can still win the day.

Legit live sand, like TBS, is nearly all the good with very little bad or ugly. That is because it turns over and does not have algae growing on it. It almost certainly has way more surface area than the rock, likely by orders of magnitude. It is also where waste settles out in the tank.

 

[Daphne's_Reef]

I did 100% live rock with a bare bottom.

 

[ReefGeezer]

My current tank is five years old and started with dry rock and a bare bottom. BUT... it was a three year battle to get it established. I would do things differently if I were starting a tank today.

1. The DT would be bare bottom to allow for current. I would build an aquascape for the DT made from plastic of some sort to provide for coral placement. The plastic would be built into an extremely open structure so that there were few crevices. It would be robust enough to allow for scrubbing until covered with corals, coralline, or live rock.
2. I would fill a large dark sump with live sand and live rock from TBS, and some dry rock to keep cost down. I must say here that no dry rock would be placed in any lighted area. The reason I would use some rock is because I would not want the sand to be over 3-4 inches deep and I think some surfaces for nitrification/denitrification is required initially. I also think the rock provides a better surface for sponge growth in the future.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

In theory my vote is 100% of both live sand and roc k where budget permits, but it comes with risks.

I ordered a small batch of live tbs rubble to seed my tank, kept it in my sump to contain any hitchhiking nuisances (expected crabs or maybe a mantis shrimp). It brought Aiptasia I never saw until it had made it up the pipes and into the main tank. Long story short, Aiptasia boom that smothered corals and reduced hiding spots for fish, which in turn fueled attacks between tank mates over remaining space. The losers ended up stressed and started getting sick. It took 4 batches of 15+ berghia, 2 CBB, 1 filefish, and 4 peppermint shrimp, but I’ve finally almost beat it back.

All that said, the live rock showed no signs of improving anything in the tank. Live sand gave me a near-instant cycle. I’ll stand behind 100% dry rock and 80-100% live sand.

 

[Acrononomus]

god i am dying to get my hands on some TBS rock. I'm planning to have an alone BTA in a deskmate classic (possibly bare bottom) but i already have enough inert dry rock. my only concern is ending up like the Bobbitt worm guy.

I had a 36” Bobbit from them lol

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

This is certainly an interesting topic! In fact, I'm currently writing an article detailing the differences among the bacterial communities found within marine sediments and those found on maricultured or ocean-harvested live rock and the beneficial aspects of each. It's fascinating that scientific studies have revealed such profound differences. To be notified where and when this and future articles are published, be sure to visit my website and please subscribe! (Subscriptions are free).

www.malcolmgraylevison.com

 

[jsanbor1]

I currently have a 15 IM Cube with 100% Live rock and Live Sand from Gulf. It seemed to cycle rapidly.. The WB 150.4 Infinia will ship mid to late August. After reading this, I'm thinking 100 lbs of live sand and use the dry rock marco scape I've got sitting in the garage.

Is it possible to get Aiptasia from live sand? How long before I can be sure there is no Aiptasia in the 15? I may just cycle the rock from the 15 to 150 refugium now and then if I can be realtively sure there are no Aiptasia.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I currently have a 15 IM Cube with 100% Live rock and Live Sand from Gulf. It seemed to cycle rapidly.. The WB 150.4 Infinia will ship mid to late August. After reading this, I'm thinking 100 lbs of live sand and use the dry rock marco scape I've got sitting in the garage.

Is it possible to get Aiptasia from live sand? How long before I can be sure there is no Aiptasia in the 15? I may just cycle the rock from the 15 to 150 refugium now and then if I can be realtively sure there are no Aiptasia.

I’m sure it’s possible, but the likelihood is probably reduced. I know mine came from the live rock cause the tank was cycled using live sand and seeded with the live rubble at a later date for added diversity. I don’t know how long it can stay hidden, but I’d think a couple weeks in a small, unlinked system if you were really concerned, as evidently being loose in the sump isn’t separated enough. Granted, it’s a fine line, depending on what else is on the rock. Some of those life forms may need food to filter feed, which in turn would also feed the Aiptasia. Safest bet, if you have space, hold it in a separate tank and get a few berghia, but that applies only to a smaller amount. It’s not perfect, but I’d hope you don’t end up paying for a financial loss like I did. End of the day it’s your call, your tank and your vendor.

Dry rock has its problems no question, but I’ll take algae wars over aiptasia all day long and thrice on Sundays. If I use live rock again in any capacity, I’ll be trying a different vendor and will have to qt it for a time first.

 

[Gulf Live Rock]

This is certainly an interesting topic! In fact, I'm currently writing an article detailing the differences among the bacterial communities found within marine sediments and those found on maricultured or ocean-harvested live rock and the beneficial aspects of each. It's fascinating that scientific studies have revealed such profound differences. To be notified where and when this and future articles are published, be sure to visit my website and please subscribe! (Subscriptions are free).

www.malcolmgraylevison.com

Id love to send you some glr grunge to study.

 

[Abyssara]

100% live rock and 100% live sand would maximize your biodiversity.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

Id love to send you some glr grunge to study.

I'm highly interested in your offer. However, I'm currently living in Cebu, the Philippines so I doubt shipping would be possible.
A professional researcher actually reached out to me yesterday after I requested access to the full text of one of his scientific publications. He mentioned an interest in collaborating with me since much of his research focuses on the bacterial communities of biofilm and live sand.

Feel free to send me a message or contact me via my website. I'd love to hear from you!

www.malcolmgraylevison.com

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I'm highly interested in your offer. However, I'm currently living in Cebu, the Philippines so I doubt shipping would be possible.
A professional researcher actually reached out to me yesterday after I requested access to the full text of one of his scientific publications. He mentioned an interest in collaborating with me since much of his research focuses on the bacterial communities of biofilm and live sand.

Feel free to send me a message or contact me via my website. I'd love to hear from you!

www.malcolmgraylevison.com

Hi all,
I just want to update everyone on the article I'm writing that's directly related to the topic of this thread. I'm nearing completion but since the professional researcher who reach out to me agreed to a collaboration involving him allowing me to quote him within the text of the article and also participate in a separate interview to delve far deeper into his work on the topic, it's going to be another week or two before it will be published.
Because the article will involve collaboration with an expert, I've yet to decide which magazine or online publication to sell it to. I've had my previous articles published by several, but because I want to reach the widest audience possible to show my appreciation, I'm currently undecided.

The interview, on the other hand, will be posted on my website. Subscribe (for free) and you'll receive an email notification after I upload the transcript!

I've noticed that some subscribers don't realize that they must confirm their subscription via email. If you subscribe, make sure to check your email afterwards to confirm!

www.malcolmgraylevison.com

 

[BobTheBlenney]

Nope...as it does not kill eggs and other things like sponges etc. The more we play with nature she will bite back.
I have used live rock, years ago picked myself when it was legal and several years ago from one of the largest dealers in Florida..again hand picked from their tanks.
The things that came out when first used and things that came out years later or were so small it took years to be seen.
There is nothing like a sterile tank, that what you put in is what you have.
No aptasia, no spiders, no worms, no crabs, no trouble makers, weird snails or weeds to ruin your day.

In a fish only..it might be ok...until you see your Yellow Tank with an Isopod latched onto its side the size of a dime. Yes, I wish a had a picture of that as it happened about 10 years ago...it looked like Aliens the movie.

Unless you are totally committed to full quarantine, starting with a sterile tank is just asking for disease outbreak once you start adding live stock. It's the same principal as living in a bubble and then going outside. I personally believe that the exposure that comes with biodiversity and a proper diet are the best hedge against disease, just like with us humans.

 

[chrizo]

Would it be possible to get all the benefits with out the live rock and live sand? I have the patience to wait. Could I use "off the shelf bottles" to get what I need?

 

[BryanM]

I am getting ready to set up a new tank (125g) and am trying to prioritize whether to get some ocean harvested sand aka from TBS or gulf live rock versus just buying more live rock (already have a decent amount of both ocean harvest Australian rock from tankstop, some good live rock from my LFS, and dry rock that has been marinating in my system for 16 months now). I am trying to gauge whether or not it is worth it to just add more live rock or add some live sand from TBS or GLR. Obviously ideal world is to get 100% LR and live sand, but if there was a fixed budget, what would you get to optimize biodiversity/filtration?
1) 100% live rock + bagged sand
2) All dry rock + 100% live sand
3) 50/50 live/dry rock, 50/50 live/bagged sand
4) 75% live rock, 25% live sand
5) 25% live rock, 75% live sand

It depends in the eye of the beholder.

I do not like live sand, I think its way too inconsistent and overall looks dirty.