Pump head pressure, plumbing questions…

[mandarin417]

THE RIGHT PUMP?

I am using a 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank in the basement just below my 155 tank on the 1st floor. 12’ vertical, 2 90 degree turns and 2’ horizontal run = 14.2’ head pressure.

Is there an acceptable submersible pump that can push enough flow for the 155 gallon tank with that head pressure?

If the output of the pump is 1.5” but the return line is ¾”, so you run 1.5” plumbing all the way up to the return line and then convert to ¾” at the tank?

Is it just so much better to run an external pump to cut back on the heat generated by the pump in the sump?

PLUMBING QUESTION?

The corner overflow holes were drilled for 1” pipes. Is there any advantage to run 1.5 pipes into the bulkhead with and adapter and then do the same on the other side of the bulkhead. Seems like any fish or other critters that get trapped in the pipe and if they can make it through the short 1” gap, they would be more likely to make it through any downstream turns.

 

[Kodski]

THE RIGHT PUMP?

I am using a 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank in the basement just below my 155 tank on the 1st floor. 12’ vertical, 2 90 degree turns and 2’ horizontal run = 14.2’ head pressure.

Is there an acceptable submersible pump that can push enough flow for the 155 gallon tank with that head pressure?

If the output of the pump is 1.5” but the return line is ¾”, so you run 1.5” plumbing all the way up to the return line and then convert to ¾” at the tank?

Is it just so much better to run an external pump to cut back on the heat generated by the pump in the sump?

PLUMBING QUESTION?

The corner overflow holes were drilled for 1” pipes. Is there any advantage to run 1.5 pipes into the bulkhead with and adapter and then do the same on the other side of the bulkhead. Seems like any fish or other critters that get trapped in the pipe and if they can make it through the short 1” gap, they would be more likely to make it through any downstream turns.

First of all I would recommend DC of an external AC due to the power consumption difference and as you'll find out the built in tech of a DC pump.

I have a very similar setup but smaller volume wise, 40 breeder as a sump and a 80gal display. My run is 12 ft vertical and 10ft horizontal with a total of 7 90* bends. I faced the same issue with trying to find a DC pump that could handle the head pressure without buying an Abbyz. I did a lot of research and settled on a Sicce SDC 9.0 pump. I thought I'd go as large as possible since I figured I wouldn't see but a third of that flow. I'm happy to say this pump is a BEAST. My plumbing starts at 1" and goes through a UV sterilizer before converting into 3/4" and eventually splitting into dual 3/4" lines. If I run the pump past 60% I have water shooting out the other end of the tank 4ft away (peninsula tank) from the return nozzles. I usually have the pump set to 37% and turn it up as much as 43% when its dirty and notice lower output, such a nice feature to have in a pump. Plus I love the Sicce app with the built in notifications and temp monitoring. I don't run an Apex and don't feel the need to because my pump can alert me when something is up with the temp or power. Also it does notify you of when it needs to be cleaned.

As far as the plumbing question goes, I would stick with 1" because you get no flow benefit if the bulkhead is still 1" and the chances of getting a critter stuck in the pipe would still be about the same. I'd take a different approach on the matter. Use a PVC screen to keep the critters out and just use 1" pipe.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

The SDC 9.0 would get you real close to desired flowrate of 10x turnover.

At approximately 14ft head (what I would expect given height and bends) this would give you about 1300-1400 gph at 100%

 

[theMeat]

THE RIGHT PUMP?

I am using a 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank in the basement just below my 155 tank on the 1st floor. 12’ vertical, 2 90 degree turns and 2’ horizontal run = 14.2’ head pressure.

Is there an acceptable submersible pump that can push enough flow for the 155 gallon tank with that head pressure?

If the output of the pump is 1.5” but the return line is ¾”, so you run 1.5” plumbing all the way up to the return line and then convert to ¾” at the tank?

Is it just so much better to run an external pump to cut back on the heat generated by the pump in the sump?

PLUMBING QUESTION?

The corner overflow holes were drilled for 1” pipes. Is there any advantage to run 1.5 pipes into the bulkhead with and adapter and then do the same on the other side of the bulkhead. Seems like any fish or other critters that get trapped in the pipe and if they can make it through the short 1” gap, they would be more likely to make it through any downstream turns.

Would keep drain pipes 1” and since there’s two would put a valve on one and run herbie style. Much quieter

 

[theMeat]

First of all I would recommend DC of an external AC due to the power consumption difference and as you'll find out the built in tech of a DC pump.

I have a very similar setup but smaller volume wise, 40 breeder as a sump and a 80gal display. My run is 12 ft vertical and 10ft horizontal with a total of 7 90* bends. I faced the same issue with trying to find a DC pump that could handle the head pressure without buying an Abbyz. I did a lot of research and settled on a Sicce SDC 9.0 pump. I thought I'd go as large as possible since I figured I wouldn't see but a third of that flow. I'm happy to say this pump is a BEAST. My plumbing starts at 1" and goes through a UV sterilizer before converting into 3/4" and eventually splitting into dual 3/4" lines. If I run the pump past 60% I have water shooting out the other end of the tank 4ft away (peninsula tank) from the return nozzles. I usually have the pump set to 37% and turn it up as much as 43% when its dirty and notice lower output, such a nice feature to have in a pump. Plus I love the Sicce app with the built in notifications and temp monitoring. I don't run an Apex and don't feel the need to because my pump can alert me when something is up with the temp or power. Also it does notify you of when it needs to be cleaned.

As far as the plumbing question goes, I would stick with 1" because you get no flow benefit if the bulkhead is still 1" and the chances of getting a critter stuck in the pipe would still be about the same. I'd take a different approach on the matter. Use a PVC screen to keep the critters out and just use 1" pipe.

How long have you been running that dc pump? Have tried a few for hi head and they work great, for a while, then gph falls off.

 

[theMeat]

The SDC 9.0 would get you real close to desired flowrate of 10x turnover.

At approximately 14ft head (what I would expect given height and bends) this would give you about 1300-1400 gph at 100%

10x turnover, unless you have a huge fuge, or huge skimmer, or run Triton method is imo a waste. Three to 5x turnover for that size tank is what I’d desire

 

[ZombieEngineer]

10x turnover, unless you have a huge fuge, or huge skimmer, or run Triton method is imo a waste. Three to 5x turnover for that size tank is what I’d desire

It's a DC pump and it is a huge fuge...

 

[theMeat]

It's a DC pump and it is a huge fuge...

From what I see, having been in the hobby for decades, is that 10x turnover is older thinking. Three to six times is newer. On my 220 with 45 gal fuge I started it about 12 years ago with around 4-5x. Now have it at around 2, maybe 2 1/2x and feel like that’s the sweet spot. Imo any more flow going through sump than your skimmer can process is a waste of heat and energy.

 

[DCR]

A single 3/4" return, even if just at the tank, is too small for a 150 gal tank no matter what pump you select. You will not get much more than 350-400 gph through that restriction. The 1-1/2" return header is good, but I would use two 1" connections at the tank. Could go down to two 3/4" if that helps with the hole sizes. Pump is a matter of choice but I would look for something that will deliver about 700-800 gph at 16 ft of head (5X turnover). This allows for about 3-4 ft of friction loss which is reasonable for most piping systems. My personal choice would be an Iwaki 55 for reliability, but there are submersible DC pumps that will work. Just keep in mind that the published head curves are always at 100% speed when making a selection.

 

[BZOFIQ]

It really depends on the budget. Abyzz A200 or any of the pressure-rated Royal Exclusives would really shine here.

 

[BZOFIQ]

A single 3/4" return, even if just at the tank, is too small for a 150 gal tank no matter what pump you select. You will not get much more than 350-400 gph through that restriction. The 1-1/2" return header is good, but I would use two 1" connections at the tank. Could go down to two 3/4" if that helps with the hole sizes. Pump is a matter of choice but I would look for something that will deliver about 700-800 gph at 16 ft of head (5X turnover). This allows for about 3-4 ft of friction loss which is reasonable for most piping systems. My personal choice would be an Iwaki 55 for reliability, but there are submersible DC pumps that will work. Just keep in mind that the published head curves are always at 100% speed when making a selection.

Agreed.

DC pumps HATE to be choked. Stick to what the manufacturer suggests or face steep penalties with greatly reduced flow.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

From what I see, having been in the hobby for decades, is that 10x turnover is older thinking. Three to six times is newer. On my 220 with 45 gal fuge I started it about 12 years ago with around 4-5x. Now have it at around 2, maybe 2 1/2x and feel like that’s the sweet spot. Imo any more flow going through sump than your skimmer can process is a waste of heat and energy.

His total water volume is 300 gallons. 10x display, 5x total water volume. It's a DC pump, so he can turn it down if 1300 gph is too much.

Also to OP, I didn't catch you were wanting to use 3/4 for the return. This is too small and will reduce you flow a lot more than I initially wrote. I just assumed you were doing 1" for the bulk of the line. You could spilt this to two 3/4" lines closer to the tank and be okay but I wouldn't use 3/4" unless you want to limit yourself to 600 gph with a smaller pump like a sicce 7.

 

[Kodski]

How long have you been running that dc pump? Have tried a few for hi head and they work great, for a while, then gph falls off.

Its been running for 10 months. I just cleaned it last night for the second time since I've set the tank up. I do see a small drop in GPH when it gets dirty but like I said, I just turn it up a few percent until I actually clean it up.

 

[theMeat]

Its been running for 10 months. I just cleaned it last night for the second time since I've set the tank up. I do see a small drop in GPH when it gets dirty but like I said, I just turn it up a few percent until I actually clean it up.

My first attempt was current USA. Oversized it and didn’t notice a drop for about a year. Replaced it with the same pump thinking it was a fluke and within 6 months noticed a BIG drop. Went with an oversized Jebao and that lasted about 18 months. Then tried a sicce with the same, about 18 months results. Tried cleaning all of em which helped but was minimal. Ended up going with a iwaki which is noisier and external but a couple of years now with no issues.
Long story short, imo a dc pump won’t last long for hi head. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a dc pump fan, just not for hi head. Keep an eye on it

 

[mandarin417]

First of all I would recommend DC of an external AC due to the power consumption difference and as you'll find out the built in tech of a DC pump.

I have a very similar setup but smaller volume wise, 40 breeder as a sump and a 80gal display. My run is 12 ft vertical and 10ft horizontal with a total of 7 90* bends. I faced the same issue with trying to find a DC pump that could handle the head pressure without buying an Abbyz. I did a lot of research and settled on a Sicce SDC 9.0 pump. I thought I'd go as large as possible since I figured I wouldn't see but a third of that flow. I'm happy to say this pump is a BEAST. My plumbing starts at 1" and goes through a UV sterilizer before converting into 3/4" and eventually splitting into dual 3/4" lines. If I run the pump past 60% I have water shooting out the other end of the tank 4ft away (peninsula tank) from the return nozzles. I usually have the pump set to 37% and turn it up as much as 43% when its dirty and notice lower output, such a nice feature to have in a pump. Plus I love the Sicce app with the built in notifications and temp monitoring. I don't run an Apex and don't feel the need to because my pump can alert me when something is up with the temp or power. Also it does notify you of when it needs to be cleaned.

As far as the plumbing question goes, I would stick with 1" because you get no flow benefit if the bulkhead is still 1" and the chances of getting a critter stuck in the pipe would still be about the same. I'd take a different approach on the matter. Use a PVC screen to keep the critters out and just use 1" pipe.

Thank you Kodski. I am going for the SDC 9. I will be going from the pump to the return line in the tank without other equipment connected in between. Do you recommend running 1" piping all the way to the return pipe and then converting to 3/4" there or should I run 3/4" the whole route?

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Thank you Kodski. I am going for the SDC 9. I will be going from the pump to the return line in the tank without other equipment connected in between. Do you recommend running 1" piping all the way to the return pipe and then converting to 3/4" there or should I run 3/4" the whole route?

1" the whole way and then convert. If you can, add another 3/4" nozzle and run 1" all the way and split to two 3/4" at the tank.

 

[Enderg60]

Im a big fan of simple AC pumps for returns. You will want a pressure rated pump. As in something with at least 25 ft of head. You will have to look at the pump curves to see what the actual flow at the height you want will be. In my example below you can see how head pressure plays a huge role vs rated flow(which is with no piping attached to the pump).

Ive run blueline pumps for the past 20 years. It took 15 years of being dripped on and water spilled on them for one to finally get bad enough to replace them. They never stopped working, just got noisy and rusty.

Im setting up a 330g with a sump in the basement. Im using a Blueline 55HD (rated for 1100 GPH max head 28ft) and Im lucky enough to have a flow meter on it. Just running thought the valves and check valve and such I was getting about 850 GPM back into the sump. When I started pushing it up to the tank it was around 500 GPH(according to the flow chart I should be getting 480 GPH at 15ft so right on the mark for that pump. I shoot for 3x-5x turnover for returns so this would be perfect for your application.

I want 1000 GPH going through my display tank so Im replacing it with the Blueline 70HD (1750GPH max head of 39ft) Looking at the flow chart I should be at 1440 GPH at 15 ft. Ill see what the actual numbers are when I get it in.

So to recap, just look at the flow charts and make sure you will get the flow you want at the height you want. After that the brand or AC vs DC is up to you.

Also remember if you plan to run other equipment off the same pump to add that flow as well.

 

[ReefDreamz]

I have almost the exact same situation. My tank is on the first floor and sump in the basement. My tank was drilled for 1.5" drain bulkheads and 1" return bulkheads. I have 12 feet of vertical and 4 feet of horizontal with multiple 90s and 45s along the way. I was planning on using two Abyzz A200 IPU's one plumbed to each return. Although the price of these pumps is insane at almost 3k a piece. I'm going with 1.5" plumbing from the pump all the way to just before the bulkhead where I reduced to 1" then to 3/4" loc line inside the tank. I wish loc line came in 1", why doesn't it?

You can see where I reduced to 1" here

 

[mandarin417]

I am very pleased with the head pressure using the Sicce SDC 9. Connecting to the app on my phone - that's another story. No problem though with using it offline.