Purposely making tank cloudier to test bacteria?

[jDoSe]

If you had a brand new tank with minimal dry rock and (extremely well rinsed) dry sand, and had consistent cloudy water for 3 weeks straight, how would you verify what you have?

i believe its some sort of bacteria, but after a decade in the hobby ive never seen anything like this. Brand new bucket of tropic marin pro. Spectrapure maxcap 5-stage. Already did 100% water changes, and smaller waterchanges, exact same result.

interestingly, i dosed 2ppm ammonia and 2oz bottle of dr tims one and only, and after 10 days, i was still exactly 2pmm. I know dr tims is in spore form (and may take 3 days to “wake up”) so im guessing if it’s bacteria i have, it possibly ate all the dr tims immediately?

i also ran a uv sterilizer for 4 days, no noticeable difference.

i am thinking it’s bacteria, but I haven’t ruled out precipitation. Since I dont know how to test if its precipitation, I am going to try test if its bacteria.

I am thinking of doing a massive vinegar dose. If it gets cloudier, I at least know its bacteria. How many ml/gal do you think I would have to do to purposely make the tank noticeably cloudier? How long do you think it would take?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you get a picture of the tank?

What sort of sand?

 

[SlugSnorter]

How fine is your sand and how strong is flow? could just be sediment

 

[jDoSe]

Can you get a picture of the tank?

What sort of sand?

I dont have a picture of the tank, but i took a video of the cloudyness i sent to TMP. They couldn’t determine what it was.
If you look at it with a light straight-on, it just looks foggy. However, if you put the light source on one pane and look from another, it looks like there is smoke in the tank. If you turn the pumps off, the smoke immediately disappears and it turns into one homogenous foggy liquid.

the sand is mesoflakes. Well rinsed and all small particles removed. It is not the sand, because it was cloudy before i added sand (or rock). I filled up first, was cloudy, 100% waterchange (with brand new mixing bucket/powerhead), cloudy a second time, then said screw it this will go away and added sand.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I dont have a picture of the tank, but i took a video of the cloudyness i sent to TMP. They couldn’t determine what it was.
If you look at it with a light straight-on, it just looks foggy. However, if you put the light source on one pane and look from another, it looks like there is smoke in the tank. If you turn the pumps off, the smoke immediately disappears and it turns into one homogenous foggy liquid.

the sand is mesoflakes. Well rinsed and all small particles removed. It is not the sand, because it was cloudy before i added sand. I filled up first, was cloudy, 100% waterchange, cloudy a second time, then said screw it this will go away and added sand.

If your water was cloudy when you added it... its an issue with your water. Bacteria cannot grow instantly upon putting water into the tank, check your TDS as your RODI system may need a new filter

 

[jDoSe]

If your water was cloudy when you added it... its an issue with your water. Bacteria cannot grow instantly upon putting water into the tank, check your TDS as your RODI system may need a new filter

TDS is 0, brand new 5-stage spectrapure maxcap with booster pump. Incoming tds only 137.

 

[SlugSnorter]

TDS is 0, brand new 5-stage spectrapure maxcap with booster pump.

Brand new, so you checked it with a reliable TDS before you mixed the water that came from it. Could be somethings up with your salt mix, was the water cloudy in the bucket?

 

[jDoSe]

Brand new, so you checked it with a reliable TDS before you mixed the water that came from it. Could be somethings up with your salt mix, was the water cloudy in the bucket?

This is the first I hear of brand new spectrapure tds meters being unreliable. Not only that, all 4 sensors unreliable? …

i tried as hard as i could, but in a white bucket, i can’t tell if it is clear or cloudy. Even the tank water, as soon as i remove a little to inspect it, it looks clear. I need to buy a small square container with clear sides and a mini pump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If there is any way to see it in a small volume (even if you can't get a picture of it), you can add vinegar to that to see if it clears. Vinegar will dissolve precipitates from the salt mix if you add enough.

The problem with the vinegar test you suggested is that it may generate new bacteria even if the cloudiness is not bacteria.

 

[SlugSnorter]

If there is any way to see it in a small volume (even if you can't get a picture of it), you can add vinegar to that to see if it clears. Vinegar will dissolve precipitates from the salt mix if you add enough.

The problem with the vinegar test you suggested is that it may generate new bacteria even if the cloudiness is not bacteria.

yup

 

[jDoSe]

If there is any way to see it in a small volume (even if you can't get a picture of it), you can add vinegar to that to see if it clears. Vinegar will dissolve precipitates from the salt mix if you add enough.

The problem with the vinegar test you suggested is that it may generate new bacteria even if the cloudiness is not bacteria.

Yes thats what i was thinking may happen. It may get cloudier because it precipitated + now i have bacteria.

I should mention that i ran 100 and 200 micron floss with no difference as well.

The question is also what happened to the one and only though? Lol
Ive used it a dozen times. Sometimes it doesn’t do very much, but ive never had it do nothing

 

[SlugSnorter]

What do you mean? its bacteria

Yes thats what i was thinking may happen. It may get cloudier because it precipitated + now i have bacteria.

I should mention that i ran 100 and 200 micron floss with no difference as well.

The question is also what happened to the one and only though? Lol

 

[jDoSe]

What do you mean? its bacteria

Sorry i edited my post to be more specific. The question is what happened to it.

“The question is also what happened to the one and only though? Lol
Ive used it a dozen times. Sometimes it doesn’t do very much, but ive never had it do nothing”

TMP suggested to try a different salt and see if i have the same problem so i will do that today. I just want to test while it is cloudy now before i remove all the water.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Sorry i edited my post to be more specific. The question is what happened to it.

“The question is also what happened to the one and only though? Lol
Ive used it a dozen times. Sometimes it doesn’t do very much, but ive never had it do nothing”

TMP suggested to try a different salt and see if i have the same problem so i will do that today. I just want to test while it is cloudy now before i remove all the water.

try with another salt, if it solves it no need to worry

 

[SlugSnorter]

If you had a brand new tank with minimal dry rock and (extremely well rinsed) dry sand, and had consistent cloudy water for 3 weeks straight, how would you verify what you have?

i believe its some sort of bacteria, but after a decade in the hobby ive never seen anything like this. Brand new bucket of tropic marin pro. Spectrapure maxcap 5-stage. Already did 100% water changes, and smaller waterchanges, exact same result.

interestingly, i dosed 2ppm ammonia and 2oz bottle of dr tims one and only, and after 10 days, i was still exactly 2pmm. I know dr tims is in spore form (and may take 3 days to “wake up”) so im guessing if it’s bacteria i have, it possibly ate all the dr tims immediately?

i also ran a uv sterilizer for 4 days, no noticeable difference.

i am thinking it’s bacteria, but I haven’t ruled out precipitation. Since I dont know how to test if its precipitation, I am going to try test if its bacteria.

I am thinking of doing a massive vinegar dose. If it gets cloudier, I at least know its bacteria. How many ml/gal do you think I would have to do to purposely make the tank noticeably cloudier? How long do you think it would take?

If you had your filters and UV in full force after dosing DR tims it all died before it could settle, or the issue with your water could have lead to an unfavorable environment

 

[jDoSe]

If you had your filters and UV in full force after dosing DR tims it all died before it could settle

I did the dr tims week+ before the uv sterilizer. When i dosed the dr tims, i had no floss, no skimmer, no uv, and put the pump on low for 48hours to let the bacteria settle.

only after 10 days of 2ppm ammonia did i start to get worried that this cloudiness was a bacteria that ate my one and only and that it wasnt going to go away by itself. Thats when i added the uv. But to my surprise, the uv did nothing.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I did the dr tims week+ before the uv sterilizer. When i dosed the dr tims, i had no floss, no skimmer, no uv, and put the pump on low for 48hours to let the bacteria settle.

only after 10 days of 2ppm ammonia did i start to get worried that this cloudiness was a bacteria that ate my one and only and that it wasnt going to go away by itself. Thats when i added the uv. But to my surprise, the uv did nothing.

I don't think the bacteria "ate" the one and only, 3 possibilities I think are subpar water due to mix issues, causing cloudiness and killing or making it unfavorable for bacteria, The bacteria in the tank already covered the rock and outcompeted the Dr tIms, or the Dr tims was expired

 

[jDoSe]

I don't think the bacteria "ate" the one and only, 3 possibilities I think are subpar water due to mix issues, causing cloudiness and killing or making it unfavorable for bacteria, The bacteria in the tank already covered the rock and outcompeted the Dr tIms, or the Dr tims was expired

Brand new ordered bottle of dr tims, cant remember the date but sometime in 2022.

i tried to test the water parameters, and they were spot on for TMP, but if it were precipitation, they may have messed with the readings.

440 cal
7 dkh
1340 mag
pH of tank sitting around 8.1-8.15, verified with test kit and brand new apex ph probe recently calibrated

also, if it outcompeted the dr tims, wouldn’t the ammonia go down at all? I am thinking the bacteria i have doesn’t use ammonia. My theory is it just ate the spores of one and only as a carbon source.

 

[taricha]

interestingly, i dosed 2ppm ammonia and 2oz bottle of dr tims one and only, and after 10 days, i was still exactly 2pmm.

What test kit? Red sea only goes up to 2ppm, so you may just be at max, and not able to notice a decrease.

“The question is also what happened to the one and only though? Lol
Ive used it a dozen times. Sometimes it doesn’t do very much, but ive never had it do nothing”

I've had frozen / dud bottles of One and Only. It's not impossible. It's more likely than some of the other ideas (spores asleep or got eaten by other bacteria.)

 

[jDoSe]

What test kit? Red sea only goes up to 2ppm, so you may just be at max, and not able to notice a decrease.

I've had frozen / dud bottles of One and Only. It's not impossible. It's more likely than some of the other ideas (spores asleep or got eaten by other bacteria.)

Yah red sea, but i dosed 1ppm and it read exactly 1ppm, then dosed another 1ppm and it was 2ppm.

also, i thought the spores being dormant and in preservatives was a common fact? Maybe i am wrong?