PVC joint fix? or redo plumbing?

[George Lopez]

The other option is to let it leak if it's a drip and it will clog itself up...

 

[Sleepydoc]

so my options are the vacuum fix method, plastic -aid or jb water weld or just redo the whole dang manifold siphon line for a few leeks.
I can put the RS pipes that came with it back on for now, but I have a leaky bulk head I gotta figure out 1st...sigh

you said Home Depot was a 200 mile round trip but mentioned an Ace hardware store - can't you just get the parts there?

I looked at the Bill Wann video - don't agree with everything he said, but he makes a lot of good points. Beveling the edge of the pipe like he suggests definitely helps make better joints as well. I've used a router in the past but usually just use a utility knife for smaller pipes.

Of note, I found this site that did a test of primed vs unprimed PVC joints. They concluded that priming actually made for weaker joints, not stronger ones! They did their tests on ½" pipe and I have seen claims that primer is only necessary for larger pipes - if that's the case then Bill Wann could be correct for his uses, as he appears to work with larger pipes.

Something else interesting - Bill Wann dismissed the Oatey "hardware store" cements, stating the weldon cement was significantly better. I looked at the MSDS ingredients of Weld-on 700 vs Oatey Regular clear PVC cements and they were essentially identical.

 

[Devaji]

you said Home Depot was a 200 mile round trip but mentioned an Ace hardware store - can't you just get the parts there?

I looked at the Bill Wann video - don't agree with everything he said, but he makes a lot of good points. Beveling the edge of the pipe like he suggests definitely helps make better joints as well. I've used a router in the past but usually just use a utility knife for smaller pipes.

Of note, I found this site that did a test of primed vs unprimed PVC joints. They concluded that priming actually made for weaker joints, not stronger ones! They did their tests on ½" pipe and I have seen claims that primer is only necessary for larger pipes - if that's the case then Bill Wann could be correct for his uses, as he appears to work with larger pipes.

Something else interesting - Bill Wann dismissed the Oatey "hardware store" cements, stating the weldon cement was significantly better. I looked at the MSDS ingredients of Weld-on 700 vs Oatey Regular clear PVC cements and they were essentially identical.

yeah I can get sched. 40 but not 80.
I am gonna try the vacuum trick then go from there. prob. just redo it.

I did take some sandpaper and lightly sand the inside of the fittings and the outside of the pipe about 1/2 to 3/4" just scratched it up so the cement had something to grip.
good idea or bad? I was told that would help...

 

[Sleepydoc]

yeah I can get sched. 40 but not 80.
I am gonna try the vacuum trick then go from there. prob. just redo it.

I did take some sandpaper and lightly sand the inside of the fittings and the outside of the pipe about 1/2 to 3/4" just scratched it up so the cement had something to grip.
good idea or bad? I was told that would help...

probably didn't matter much. when you glue two surfaces together, the glue needs to grip the surface. Roughing up the surface as you describe gives more surface area for the glue to bond to. PVC cement actually solvent welds the two pieces together - it melts the surfaces of the pipe and fitting, then those two join together. Rouging up the surface doesn't help that process. It potentially could make it worse by creating more PVC particulate material for the cement to dissolve, reducing the amount of surface penetration, but I doubt that played a role.

As far as schedule 40 vs 80, schedule 40 should be fine, unless you just like that grey look.

 

[PhreeByrd]

Plus one on the clear primer. People seem to grab that purple crap for some reason.

Purple primer ("that purple crap") is required by plumbing codes in most areas, and this can make the clear more difficult to find. But clear primer is available, and this kind of work does not need to be inspected for code compliance.

 

[PhreeByrd]

I haven't had a single building inspector in 18 years require primer on a condensate drain, drain pipes and flue pipes yes, but not condensate drains. Using primer will help but it's not necessary

Virginia Plumbing Code Sections 705.8.2 and 705.14.2 require the use of ASTM F 656 purple primer on all cemented PVC sanitary drainage piping joints.
I could argue all day long that it's necessary (but I won't).

 

[ylreefer]

I have successfully fixed leaks. But only occasionally.
1. Dry out the pipe. All the way. Then use a hair dryer to make sure there is no water whatsoever in the joint
2. Primer the crap out of the leak area. 2 or 3 times.
3. Apply a liberal ammout of cement to the leak area.
4. If you get lucky that will seal it. If not you have to re-build it anyway.

This is worth a try. Fwiw I've never used primer and never once had a leak, and I've joined exactly the way the OP did. [emoji848]

 

[Mjrenz]

Virginia Plumbing Code Sections 705.8.2 and 705.14.2 require the use of ASTM F 656 purple primer on all cemented PVC sanitary drainage piping joints.
I could argue all day long that it's necessary (but I won't).

Then why argue at all?

 

[Reef-junky]

Doesn’t really matter what building codes are because we don’t use them for our fish tanks as stated above. And the clear primer is right next to the purple stuff at Menards. I didn’t even know about it till I went to buy primer and cement.

: )

 

[Devaji]

OK here is my plan.
tomorrow I hope to have time to do the vacuum trick I know that my or may not fit the 2 leaks in my full siphon.
test my manifold and see what I have going on there.

if all that does not work I might try the plaast aid or just suck it but and order more plumbing parts and do a better job this time.

 

[cobast]

Hey Devaji, so you've got some dodgy joints because you didn't use primer. Doh!

You can often get your bad joints apart by using a hot air gun or VERY carefully using a blow torch. Remember, PVC burns. You just heat the hell out of the joint, more so the pipe, and carefully twist and pull the joint apart. A flat blade screwdriver may help in separating the parts. Be careful not to exceed the plasticity of the parts. This doesn't work as well on a properly made joint. If you're lucky you can reuse the pipe.

People have been saying primer and glue are the same. Here is AUS they are quite different. Primer is almost straight MEK while the glue in based on MEK with two other components.

A good idea when pre-assembling your joints is to quickly sand the cut edge of the pipe. Just a couple of seconds with sand paper will do to smooth the cut and chamfer it slightly. Then slide the pieces together till the pipe hits the stop and then put a pencil mark where the pipe comes out of the fitting. This way, when you do your wet assembly you know your pipe is all the way in when the pencil mark is up against the fitting.
When applying primer, do the internal surface of the fitting first as it will take longer to evaporate than on the outside of the pipe. Same with the glue. This gives you a bit longer assembly time but still, be quick. When pushing the pipe in, make sure to give it a 1/4 turn to help spread the glue. Then hold it for a bit. Some pipes will come apart by themselves while still wet.

Good luck with it all!

P.s. I have about 8 plumbing supplies stores within 20 minutes from me. And I work in one of them. Wish I could help you out.

 

[PhreeByrd]

Doesn’t really matter what building codes are because we don’t use them for our fish tanks as stated above. And the clear primer is right next to the purple stuff at Menards. I didn’t even know about it till I went to buy primer and cement.

: )

I wouldn't say the codes don't matter in this case just because nobody is going to 'catch you'. The codes are minimum standards for safe and good quality work. If your work doesn't even meet the minimum requirements of the building codes, then you're doing really lousy work.

That said, with very few exceptions, the PVC cement manufacturers require the use of primer. It's in their instructions.

 

[crusso1993]

I wouldn't say the codes don't matter in this case just because nobody is going to 'catch you'. The codes are minimum standards for safe and good quality work. If your work doesn't even meet the minimum requirements of the building codes, then you're doing really lousy work.

That said, with very few exceptions, the PVC cement manufacturers require the use of primer. It's in their instructions.

This may also cause some problems with insurance covering a claim if the tank is insured.

 

[Devaji]

This may also cause some problems with insurance covering a claim if the tank is insured.

ah good point. but unfortunately it;s not insured

 

[Devaji]

Hey Devaji, so you've got some dodgy joints because you didn't use primer. Doh!

You can often get your bad joints apart by using a hot air gun or VERY carefully using a blow torch. Remember, PVC burns. You just heat the hell out of the joint, more so the pipe, and carefully twist and pull the joint apart. A flat blade screwdriver may help in separating the parts. Be careful not to exceed the plasticity of the parts. This doesn't work as well on a properly made joint. If you're lucky you can reuse the pipe.

People have been saying primer and glue are the same. Here is AUS they are quite different. Primer is almost straight MEK while the glue in based on MEK with two other components.

A good idea when pre-assembling your joints is to quickly sand the cut edge of the pipe. Just a couple of seconds with sand paper will do to smooth the cut and chamfer it slightly. Then slide the pieces together till the pipe hits the stop and then put a pencil mark where the pipe comes out of the fitting. This way, when you do your wet assembly you know your pipe is all the way in when the pencil mark is up against the fitting.
When applying primer, do the internal surface of the fitting first as it will take longer to evaporate than on the outside of the pipe. Same with the glue. This gives you a bit longer assembly time but still, be quick. When pushing the pipe in, make sure to give it a 1/4 turn to help spread the glue. Then hold it for a bit. Some pipes will come apart by themselves while still wet.

Good luck with it all!

P.s. I have about 8 plumbing supplies stores within 20 minutes from me. And I work in one of them. Wish I could help you out.

thanks for the heads up and kind words!

 

[Sleepydoc]

People have been saying primer and glue are the same. Here is AUS they are quite different. Primer is almost straight MEK while the glue in based on MEK with two other components.

The solvents are probably different here in the states d/t various regulations, but the difference is that primer is strictly solvent while cement has both the solvent and some dissolved PVC solids. MEK is one of the solvents they use here in the states, too, but there are usually a couple other solvents as well (acetone, cyclohexanone och tetrahydrofuran)