QT tank or murder box?? Help!!

[alabella1]

I'm at my wits end. I'm trying to do everything right. I'm testing parameters, changing water as needed. Fish are still dying and I have no idea why.

After the previous deaths we spoke about I tore down the 20L QT tank. I cleaned it, dried it, put in a brand new filter. Put in sponges and bioballs I had in my DT sump seeding. I used water from my DT and I dosed some Microbacter Start XLM. I made sure all parameters where right where I wanted them. I added a hydor powerhead aimed at the surface, put in a new airstone in for when it was time to do prazi, swapped in a new heater as well. I painted the bottom of the tank (on the outside) black as a i read the clear glass bottom tank could stress out the fish.

Once I confirmed it was cycled - Ph 8.3, nitrate 24.8, nitrite 0, ammonia 0. Sailinity matched at 1.025 and temp 78. I changed some water and got ready to add a pair of angelfish to QT together. Floated them to stabilize temp and then Added them to the QT with the filter running and I also a new hydor powerhead aimed at the surface. Salinity matched, so no drip.

The male was immediately and issue. He was acting weird from the time I added him, breathing heavy laying on his side, etc. Hoped he would rebound but he didn't. By the next morning the male was dead. Female was doing good, looking good. Fed her on the second day she was good. Noticed before I went to bed she was lying on her side so I poked her and she swam away normal so I assumed she was fine. By the next morning she too was gone.

Just like the previous deaths, fish were found with mouths wide open. They all exhibited heavy breathing.

I've had a bunch of fish die this way, almost out of the blue they take a turn like this.

This is not a new QT or anything. I've had many fish make it through QT in this thing. I'm not sure why all of a sudden they are dropping like flies and these two angels, well, it's the 2 quickest deaths I've seen. The LFS said they were healthy and happy and eating for over 3 weeks before I picked them up. I saw them right before they were bagged and they looked great.

There has to be something I am missing here and I need to figure this out before I flush anymore fish and money down the toilet. This is killing me. Are there any super cheap fish I can get for testing purposes to try to see what exactly could be doing this?

Should I just burn the tank and start a brand new one?

#fishmedics

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Are you testing the water the fish came in? Maybe the LFS parameters are way off from yours?

 

[alabella1]

Are you testing the water the fish came in? Maybe the LFS parameters are way off from yours?

The temp and salinity matched up. What else should I be testing?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

The temp and salinity matched up. What else should I be testing?

Those are the biggest things.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm at my wits end. I'm trying to do everything right. I'm testing parameters, changing water as needed. Fish are still dying and I have no idea why.

After the previous deaths we spoke about I tore down the 20L QT tank. I cleaned it, dried it, put in a brand new filter. Put in sponges and bioballs I had in my DT sump seeding. I used water from my DT and I dosed some Microbacter Start XLM. I made sure all parameters where right where I wanted them. I added a hydor powerhead aimed at the surface, put in a new airstone in for when it was time to do prazi, swapped in a new heater as well. I painted the bottom of the tank (on the outside) black as a i read the clear glass bottom tank could stress out the fish.

Once I confirmed it was cycled - Ph 8.3, nitrate 24.8, nitrite 0, ammonia 0. Sailinity matched at 1.025 and temp 78. I changed some water and got ready to add a pair of angelfish to QT together. Floated them to stabilize temp and then Added them to the QT with the filter running and I also a new hydor powerhead aimed at the surface. Salinity matched, so no drip.

The male was immediately and issue. He was acting weird from the time I added him, breathing heavy laying on his side, etc. Hoped he would rebound but he didn't. By the next morning the male was dead. Female was doing good, looking good. Fed her on the second day she was good. Noticed before I went to bed she was lying on her side so I poked her and she swam away normal so I assumed she was fine. By the next morning she too was gone.

Just like the previous deaths, fish were found with mouths wide open. They all exhibited heavy breathing.

I've had a bunch of fish die this way, almost out of the blue they take a turn like this.

This is not a new QT or anything. I've had many fish make it through QT in this thing. I'm not sure why all of a sudden they are dropping like flies and these two angels, well, it's the 2 quickest deaths I've seen. The LFS said they were healthy and happy and eating for over 3 weeks before I picked them up. I saw them right before they were bagged and they looked great.

There has to be something I am missing here and I need to figure this out before I flush anymore fish and money down the toilet. This is killing me. Are there any super cheap fish I can get for testing purposes to try to see what exactly could be doing this?

Should I just burn the tank and start a brand new one?

#fishmedics

Other than acclimation, what are you testing water with?
How long was acclimation and did you use any bag water ?

there is osmotic shock or false readings occuring or water from the display you used has higher readings than tests are showing. For QT tank- best to use New water especially having the biomedia in the tank already

 

[Weeb]

Like Erin said. . .but I'll take it further.

The floating and temperature matching is only part of the process. You need to slowly add QT water to the bag (when the bag gets too full, dump out of the water down the sink, NOT back into the aquarium). When the water in the bag matches the pH, salinity, and temp of the QT then the fish are ready to add to the QT. All-in-all the process can take 90 minutes for a small bag/small fishes (under 2") to 3+ hours for large fish.

The quantity you add to the bag depends on the volume of water in the bag. Aim for adding about 15% for the first two adds, increase to 20% there after. Allow about 15 minutes between adds. Check bag water quality after about 90 min or after the fourth water add. Monitor after that.

I add an air tube from a small vibrator pump to the larger bags (being sure to cut back the air to just a few dozen bubbles/min). This brings in air and disturbs the water surface (where air is taken into the water) and helps mix the water.

Introducing marine fish to a tank is a bit of an art. For instance, besides the above, dim all lights during this process. Don't antagonize the fish. Stop checking up on them so frequently. I also use a bit of Methylene blue to the bag water. This calms the fish and improves their breathing.

(painting bottom is v. good. Paint back black too -- it helps when inspecting the surface of fish). Be sure air from the air pump is clean air. Use no cleaners around the tank. To 'maintain' a QT in between uses, you might want to add snails (the carnivores and algae eaters) and feed them, and/or add small amounts of ammonium nitrate.

At the end of this acclimation, don't pour the bag water into the aquarium. Pour water through net that has been soaking in tank water a couple of hours (cuts down abrasion), and slip the fish into the QT from the net. Maintain reduced lighting for a few hours. The QT should have hiding places (I liked using pipe -- they hide inside but I can still see them!).

No substrate; no live rock in QT system.

I used to go with my local trop fish dealer to the wholesale stores in Los Angeles and buy my fish from the importer. I had 800 gallons of saltwater in various tanks and a divided 40 gal QT. I didn't put fish together, but separated them. This also reduces stress.

Sorry for the rambling. I'm sure you can put it together.

I could do an article on this!

 

[alabella1]

This was them at pickup.

Then later on at home

Male went first by the very next morning



The female was fine up until dinner then started acting weird and was dead the following morning.

 

[alabella1]

Like Erin said. . .but I'll take it further.

The floating and temperature matching is only part of the process. You need to slowly add QT water to the bag (when the bag gets too full, dump out of the water down the sink, NOT back into the aquarium). When the water in the bag matches the pH, salinity, and temp of the QT then the fish are ready to add to the QT. All-in-all the process can take 90 minutes for a small bag/small fishes (under 2") to 3+ hours for large fish.

The quantity you add to the bag depends on the volume of water in the bag. Aim for adding about 10% for the first two adds, increase to 20% there after. Allow about 15 minutes between adds. Check bag water quality after about 90 min or after the fourth water add. Monitor after that.

I add an air tube from a small vibrator pump to the larger bags (being sure to cut back the air to just a few dozen bubbles/min). This brings in air and disturbs the water surface (where air is taken into the water) and helps mix the water.

Introducing marine fish to a tank is a bit of an art. For instance, besides the above, dim all lights during this process. Don't antagonize the fish. Stop checking up on them so frequently. I also use a bit of Methylene blue to the bag water. This calms the fish and improves their breathing.

(painting bottom is v. good. Paint back black too -- it helps when inspecting the surface of fish). Be sure air from the air pump is clean air. Use no cleaners around the tank. To 'maintain' a QT in between uses, you might want to add snails (the carnivores and algae eaters) and feed them, and/or add small amounts of ammonium nitrate.

At the end of this acclimation, don't pour the bag water into the aquarium. Pour water through net that has been soaking in tank water a couple of hours (cuts down abrasion), and slip the fish into the QT from the net. Maintain reduced lighting for a few hours. The QT should have hiding places (I liked using pipe -- they hide inside but I can still see them!).

No substrate; no live rock in QT system.

I used to go with my local trop fish dealer to the wholesale stores in Los Angeles and buy my fish from the importer. I had 800 gallons of saltwater in various tanks and a divided 40 gal QT. I didn't put fish together, but separated them. This also reduces stress.

Sorry for the rambling. I'm sure you can put it together.

I could do an article on this!

I usually follow every bit of this. I floated the bag only this time because the other parameters matched. I use the hanna tests for everything and have an ammonia badge. Lights were off the whole time. Only blue PVC pipes from BRS in there. I've both used tank water and clean water... they still die.

 

[alabella1]

Is there a way to test the water for any other possible contaminants?

 

[Weeb]

I usually follow every bit of this. I floated the bag only this time because the other parameters matched. I use the hanna tests for everything and have an ammonia badge. Lights were off the whole time. Only blue PVC pipes from BRS in there. I've both used tank water and clean water... they still die.

There is either some detail being missed or, stop buying fish from that source.

 

[alabella1]

There is either some detail being missed or, stop buying fish from that source.

Multiple sources, similar results. There has to be something I'm missing.

 

[Weeb]

I usually follow every bit of this. I floated the bag only this time because the other parameters matched. I use the hanna tests for everything and have an ammonia badge. Lights were off the whole time. Only blue PVC pipes from BRS in there. I've both used tank water and clean water... they still die.

At pickup -- were the really eating or just swimming around the brine shrimp or whatever is in the tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I agree, there is either something big that is being missed, or there is a problem with the source. Bellus angels aren't the sturdiest species, so that may play into it also.

I doubt it was acclimation, but I just posted an article that covers most of those issues:

Acclimation Methods

Acclimating Animals to Aquariums Jay F. Hemdal c.2020 Introduction to acclimation techniques Most beginning aquarists hear that they must “acclimate” any new animals they add to their aquarium. Acclimation (sometimes termed...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Klyle]

I feel your pain. I just got a royal gramma and tailspot blenny through 20 days of copper- they were doing great. Moved them to a sterile, unmedicated tank last night. This morning the blenny was dead and after work today, the gramma was dead. I'm beyond frustrated. I figured it was either a mismatch in salinity (just posted about my hydrometer being weird), or using bleach to sterilize some things the unwittingly contaminating / poisoning my poor fish. Whatever it was, I did it. No way they just died that fast. But to your question, you should try some mollies. One they're cheap, two if they're in freshwater there's no chance of them bringing diseases into your system. I was going to go fallow in my tank, but the fish died and I figured I probably had contaminated the qt so I had to get my clownfish out. I threw her back in the DT along with a few fw mollies. Hopefully if there's anything bad in my DT, the mollies will get it before my clown does.

 

[Weeb]

Is there a way to test the water for any other possible contaminants?

Unfortunately, not really. Some wild-caught fish are still being caught using cyanide. They live just long enough for the retailer to sell them. But I could never claim this problem for sure. Under the microscope they look the same as net-caught fish.

You're sure the pH and salinity were right on? The accuracy of the testing method isn't too important, so long as the same method/test kit is used on the QT and bag water.

 

[Weeb]

Is there a way to test the water for any other possible contaminants?

Are the sources keeping the fish they sell in a copper or other treatment method?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This was them at pickup.

Then later on at home

Male went first by the very next morning



The female was fine up until dinner then started acting weird and was dead the following morning.

@Jay Hemdal , the OP shows the fishes' gills. Is this how they are supposed to look or is the redness indicative of something? (I've not looked at a dead fish's gills since the last time I went fishing and have no idea if these pics show anything.)

 

[Weeb]

The fineness of the gill (capillaries) structure should be red -- usually bright red. This is where blood comes into contact with the water to pick up oxygen. When the fish is old -- very old -- it may darken to a red-brown.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

The fineness of the gill (capillaries) structure should be red -- usually bright red. This is where blood comes into contact with the water to pick up oxygen. When the fish is old -- very old -- it may darken to a red-brown.

Thank You!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal , the OP shows the fishes' gills. Is this how they are supposed to look or is the redness indicative of something? (I've not looked at a dead fish's gills since the last time I went fishing and have no idea if these pics show anything.)

Gills are one of the first parts of a fish to change upon death. Not knowing how long each fish has been dead makes it difficult to interpret the pictures. Healthy gills should be a solid, dark red. An anemic fish will have pale gills, but a fish that has been dead a few hours will also have pale gills. In the first picture, there is a dark red spot, that might be an issue, a site of a parasite, but usually you see many of them. I find a microscope is needed to really tell much from gills.

Jay