Question about feasibility in our tank

[Tartufo]

My daughter and I have a 25 gallon lagoon running for her. It hasn't been up for more than a month or so, and the parameters have been rock solid from day one with two fish and a CUC. We used Fritz 900 and I used live rock as well as media from a LFS.

She wants an anemone and clownfish. She currently has a Neon Goby and a Royal Gramma, as well as a few Zoa frags. She wants some coral, but also an anemone with clownfish. Is it realistic for this to happen in a 25 gallon lagoon? It seems like, for hosting, a bubble anemone is the best bet, but is that too large or invasive (growth, movement, splitting) for this size tank? A few weeks ago I broke it to her that I don't think we can do it, but I'm hoping that I was wrong. Recent research gave me massively different answers.

 

[Timfish]

I have BTAs that stay small and would be ok and I have BTAs that get 2' across and definitely would be a major problem in your system and some are from the same clone line and I can't say with any certainty what an individual might do. A better option might be a hardy frogspawn variety but it is harder to get clowns to host. another potential problem might develop when your clowns mature and start spawning. Depending on individual temperment, some females become aggressively territorial so you might have to rehome your other fish.

 

[BryanM]

My daughter and I have a 25 gallon lagoon running for her. It hasn't been up for more than a month or so, and the parameters have been rock solid from day one with two fish and a CUC. We used Fritz 900 and I used live rock as well as media from a LFS.

She wants an anemone and clownfish. She currently has a Neon Goby and a Royal Gramma, as well as a few Zoa frags. She wants some coral, but also an anemone with clownfish. Is it realistic for this to happen in a 25 gallon lagoon? It seems like, for hosting, a bubble anemone is the best bet, but is that too large or invasive (growth, movement, splitting) for this size tank? A few weeks ago I broke it to her that I don't think we can do it, but I'm hoping that I was wrong. Recent research gave me massively different answers.

If you used real live rock, thats awesome. Helps skip most of the nasty phases.

I do not see anything wrong with this plan with a nem and a clown, except that there are absolutely zero guarantees that the nem will host the clown.

Generally nems are not tolerant of new tanks either, but if it was real live rock and parameters are stable you're in better shape than most.

 

[Tartufo]

I have BTAs that stay small and would be ok and I have BTAs that get 2' across and definitely would be a major problem in your system and some are from the same clone line and I can't say with any certainty what an individual might do. A better option might be a hardy frogspawn variety but it is harder to get clowns to host. another potential problem might develop when your clowns mature and start spawning. Depending on individual temperment, some females become aggressively territorial so you might have to rehome your other fish.

The difference is interesting to me and makes me want to have a few anemone tanks or a large tank with several.

I am putting together a tank for my office that is 20 gallons. Currently there is a cardinal and clown goby. The thought is to keep the stock like this, using it for coral and to isolate fish from the 25 gallon.

 

[Pistondog]

My daughter and I have a 25 gallon lagoon running for her. It hasn't been up for more than a month or so, and the parameters have been rock solid from day one with two fish and a CUC. We used Fritz 900 and I used live rock as well as media from a LFS.

She wants an anemone and clownfish. She currently has a Neon Goby and a Royal Gramma, as well as a few Zoa frags. She wants some coral, but also an anemone with clownfish. Is it realistic for this to happen in a 25 gallon lagoon? It seems like, for hosting, a bubble anemone is the best bet, but is that too large or invasive (growth, movement, splitting) for this size tank? A few weeks ago I broke it to her that I don't think we can do it, but I'm hoping that I was wrong. Recent research gave me massively different answers.

Yes. Anemone and clownfish are easy.
if conditions are right, bta will split in a few months.
I started with 1 bta years ago and have had at least a dozen traded in.
Btas can be invasive, they go where they want and will win over most corals.

 

[Tartufo]

If you used real live rock, thats awesome. Helps skip most of the nasty phases.

I do not see anything wrong with this plan with a nem and a clown, except that there are absolutely zero guarantees that the nem will host the clown.

Generally nems are not tolerant of new tanks either, but if it was real live rock and parameters are stable you're in better shape than most.

This fish store has huge IBC totes where they make the live rock by circulating their tanks through it. Our local Petco sells it as well, straight from their tanks. I haven't purchased theirs.

 

[Timfish]

This fish store has huge IBC totes where they make the live rock by circulating their tanks through it. Our local Petco sells it as well, straight from their tanks. I haven't purchased theirs.

This is better than dry or "live rock" that's just had some bacteria added but it does fall short of live rock that's been cultured in the ocean. I would encourage you to get maricultured live rock from KP Aquatics, Tampa Bay Saltwater or Gulf Live Rock.

 

[Quietman]

Almost everything has the ability to take over a small tank. My toadstool and finger leather get pruned more than Rose of Sharon bushes in the yard. My BTA's do split but not to the point where I can't manage it easily in my 34g. After I see several I take the extra to LFS for store credit. But that's nothing I have to do right away. I can delay it a few months without any issue at all.

 

[Tartufo]

This is better than dry or "live rock" that's just had some bacteria added but it does fall short of live rock that's been cultured in the ocean. I would encourage you to get maricultured live rock from KP Aquatics, Tampa Bay Saltwater or Gulf Live Rock.

I don't see the need with a cycled tank.

 

[Pistondog]

I don't see the need with a cycled tank.

Plenty of threads here about the benefits of live from the ocean rocks.
must have?, no. Good idea? Your choice, but many would not have a tank without some LR.

 

[Tartufo]

Plenty of threads here about the benefits of live from the ocean rocks.
must have?, no. Good idea? Your choice, but many would not have a tank without some LR.

* What benefit does it have for a cycled tank?
* What size/weight/ratio is needed for the benefits to be seen?

I already have the scape set up without much room except for some rubble and maybe a small rock or two.

 

[BryanM]

* What benefit does it have for a cycled tank?
* What size/weight/ratio is needed for the benefits to be seen?

I already have the scape set up without much room except for some rubble and maybe a small rock or two.

If cycled not as important, clearly can still add other good beneficial bacteria, but if you're already there, you're good.

The big wins for LR are "instant" cycle, far less uglies. Adding some after with dry can help, but usually the dry rock still goes through all the stages.

 

[Tartufo]

If cycled not as important, clearly can still add other good beneficial bacteria, but if you're already there, you're good.

The big wins for LR are "instant" cycle, far less uglies. Adding some after with dry can help, but usually the dry rock still goes through all the stages.

I do have a big piece of "life rock" in each tank. I know it isn't the same.

Thanks for the info.

 

[exnisstech]

She wants some coral, but also an anemone with clownfish. Is it realistic for this to happen in a 25 gallon lagoon?

Many do it but I longer keep nems in tanks that have coral a care about. I would be even less inclined to do it in 25g than I would a larger tank.

 

[Tartufo]

Many do it but I longer keep nems in tanks that have coral a care about. I would be even less inclined to do it in 25g than I would a larger tank.

I talked my daughter out of it. I told her that when we eventually upgrade, she can get one. We went from two 29 gallons to one 75 gallon to one 125 gallon with freshwater. The plan is to bump up the saltwater to 75 once we get a year or so in, keeping the 25 going for fun. Sadly we don't have the room to go bigger than 75.

 

[Timfish]

I don't see the need with a cycled tank.

It's not abut "cycling" or setting up the initial nitrogen cycle. There's a lot of beneficial stuff on ocean sourced live rock important for the diversity needed for a mature system. One estimate is only a few percent of the microbial stuff can be actually cultured* Sponges play a crucial role in removing Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka Carbon Dosing) that can promote anoxic and/or pathogenic conditions in coral microbiomes and ocean sourced live rock is the ideal source. Here's Aquabiomic"s thread on establishing a mature microbiome.

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

About this article This article describes an experiment documenting the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium. While I’ve tried to tell the story as briefly as I can, it’s the story of a month-long study of replicated tanks, with analysis of both water chemistry and the microbial...

www.reef2reef.com

*At around the 6 minute mark Rohwer in his video, he points out only about 2% of the microbes can be cultured.

 

[Tartufo]

It's not abut "cycling" or setting up the initial nitrogen cycle. There's a lot of beneficial stuff on ocean sourced live rock important for the diversity needed for a mature system. One estimate is only a few percent of the microbial stuff can be actually cultured* Sponges play a crucial role in removing Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka Carbon Dosing) that can promote anoxic and/or pathogenic conditions in coral microbiomes and ocean sourced live rock is the ideal source. Here's Aquabiomic"s thread on establishing a mature microbiome.

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

About this article This article describes an experiment documenting the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium. While I’ve tried to tell the story as briefly as I can, it’s the story of a month-long study of replicated tanks, with analysis of both water chemistry and the microbial...

www.reef2reef.com

*At around the 6 minute mark Rohwer in his video, he points out only about 2% of the microbes can be cultured.

The questions then are:

How much per gallon will make a meaningful difference?
For how long will it need to be there, permanently?
Does it ever get rinsed if you are putting it in a chamber of an AIO?

I'm leaning towards getting some rubble and putting it in a chamber rather than the ceramic media I am currently using.

 

[Dom]

My daughter and I have a 25 gallon lagoon running for her. It hasn't been up for more than a month or so, and the parameters have been rock solid from day one with two fish and a CUC. We used Fritz 900 and I used live rock as well as media from a LFS.

She wants an anemone and clownfish. She currently has a Neon Goby and a Royal Gramma, as well as a few Zoa frags. She wants some coral, but also an anemone with clownfish. Is it realistic for this to happen in a 25 gallon lagoon? It seems like, for hosting, a bubble anemone is the best bet, but is that too large or invasive (growth, movement, splitting) for this size tank? A few weeks ago I broke it to her that I don't think we can do it, but I'm hoping that I was wrong. Recent research gave me massively different answers.

You can do it; it will be fine.

 

[Timfish]

The questions then are:

How much per gallon will make a meaningful difference?
For how long will it need to be there, permanently?
Does it ever get rinsed if you are putting it in a chamber of an AIO?

I'm leaning towards getting some rubble and putting it in a chamber rather than the ceramic media I am currently using.

I typically use roughly 50/50 marine sourced live rock with local limestone in my aquascaping, so it's as permanant as any rock is. Less is still beneficial though. Just to be clear, treat more carefully than you would corals, dips of any kind that might be used with corals will kill beneficial stuff on marine sourced live rock. The detritus, as long as it doesn't smell like there's dead stuff in it, is beneficial.

This is going off topic but detritus, aka fish poop, is an important part of the carbon and micro nutrient cycles in reefs (don't use filters socks, pads or rolls).

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1015895108

https://archimer.ifremer.fr/doc/00842/95393/103168.pdf