Question on Herbie

[JGT]

So I’ve finished my plumbing and have been playing around with the flow. I’ve gone with a herbie- 2 overflows each one has a siphon drain with gate valve at sump side, an emergency standpipe and a return. The issue I’m coming across is that in order for the overflows to run silent, I have to have much more than a trickle down the emergency drains. Otherwise, with a trickle it’s very gurgly and loud. Is there any issue doing this other than the water going down the emergency is bypassing my filter socks? Are there any tricks other than using the emergency in this manner to having it be silent? Thanks.

 

[Idoc]

Do you have any horizontal pipe runs on the full siphon line going into the sump?

How far under the overflow water level is the top of your full siphon drain line?

 

[JGT]

No, the one siphon is virtually a straight run from the overflow to the sump which is in the basement. The other siphon is about 6 feet over but I’ve used flexible pvc so no hard 90 elbows. Siphons are about 12 inches below water level.

 

[Idoc]

No, the one siphon is virtually a straight run from the overflow to the sump which is in the basement. The other siphon is about 6 feet over but I’ve used flexible pvc so no hard 90 elbows. Siphons are about 12 inches below water level.

Hmmm...I'm not sure what is causing the noise!

Maybe it has to do with the long drop of water from the tank to the basement? I have a herbie design, but the drop is only a few feet.

Hopefully someone with a basement sump can chime in with some advice. I do seem to recall people with basement sumps typically have the gate valves very low down the line, possibly even in the basement. Theoretically this would keep more water in the line all the way up to the tank and maybe reduce the noise?

 

[JGT]

The noise is the emergency drain. The siphon is silent. I may have to exercise some patience and get the water level to be between the siphon and emergency- but close enough to the emergency that the waterfall from the weir doesn’t cause a lot of noise. Thanks.

 

[homer1475]

You should have a trickle of wate rin the emergency, thats the whole purpose of the emergency. In a herbie setup the emergecy should have small trickle to accommodate the small fluctuations in water level. It should never be totally dry.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm a little unclear. Is the noise actually from the emergency pipe or is it from the weir? A trickle through the emergency cannot really make much noise, but perhaps the water level in the overflow is too low. You could try extending the emergency by a 1/2" to see if that helps.

 

[newbie2014]

Maybe the noise is from the water falling down the weir?? By raising the water level ( in the overflow) higher and closer to the weir, the noise disappears but you’ll have more water going down the emergency drain?
As long as it’s not a full siphon, I don’t think it is a problem. I hang a filter sock on my emergency drain to collect floaties from DT and eliminate water trickling noise into the sump.

 

[newbie2014]

I guess I was typing as ca1ore was replying........

 

[homer1475]

Raise the height of the emergency then.

 

[homer1475]

I have my emergency terminate next to the return pump, and under water about an inch or so. This accomplishes 2 things, first it eliminates the slight splashing sound from the trickle, secondly when there is a true emergency(the pipe goes full siphon) I can hear it, and it makes bubbles go into the display.

 

[newbie2014]

I have my emergency terminate next to the return pump, and under water about an inch or so. This accomplishes 2 things, first it eliminates the slight splashing sound from the trickle, secondly when there is a true emergency(the pipe goes full siphon) I can hear it, and it makes bubbles go into the display.

Yep, another ingenious way to “skin the cat”.

I've found that the silence of the emergency drain has one disadvantage for me; I can’t tell if it’s still trickling or running dry. My corner overflow is pushed into the corner wall, so a visual check is not doable without a step ladder. Therefore, I have it trickle into a sock so I can easily see when I do my daily sump check.

 

[Snoopy 67]

As I see it your pipes are too deep in the sump.
No more than 1" below running water level & emergency drains are above water level so they make noise alerting you of a problem.

 

[JGT]

I'm a little unclear. Is the noise actually from the emergency pipe or is it from the weir? A trickle through the emergency cannot really make much noise, but perhaps the water level in the overflow is too low. You could try extending the emergency by a 1/2" to see if that helps.

Emergency pipes. The top of the the emergency drains are 1/2" below the water line/weir.

 

[JGT]

Maybe the noise is from the water falling down the weir?? By raising the water level ( in the overflow) higher and closer to the weir, the noise disappears but you’ll have more water going down the emergency drain?
As long as it’s not a full siphon, I don’t think it is a problem. I hang a filter sock on my emergency drain to collect floaties from DT and eliminate water trickling noise into the sump

Maybe the noise is from the water falling down the weir?? By raising the water level ( in the overflow) higher and closer to the weir, the noise disappears but you’ll have more water going down the emergency drain?
As long as it’s not a full siphon, I don’t think it is a problem. I hang a filter sock on my emergency drain to collect floaties from DT and eliminate water trickling noise into the sump.

Nope, weir is quiet. Emergency is 1/2" below the weir. So no noise as a result of a waterfall effect. The noise is out of the emergency drains. The trickling is noisy. If I go more than a trickle it becomes silent.

 

[JGT]

As I see it your pipes are too deep in the sump.
No more than 1" below running water level & emergency drains are above water level so they make noise alerting you of a problem.

All are 1" below water level in sump.

 

[Greg Gdowski]

It was my impression that the two (non-emergency) drains have different functions. The one with the lower weir is setup with as a siphon (by adjusting the valve) and the second with the higher weir does not have a valve and carries the needed additional flow rate (beyond the siphon of the other drain). It seems like you could be chasing a scenario in which you are trying to achieve two siphon lines by manipulating two valves and the return flow rate is not high enough to carry it. That results in you having lower flow rates in both -- making it harder to clear the air when you restart (especially if you were 12" below the waterline in the basement).

 

[newbie2014]

Nope, weir is quiet. Emergency is 1/2" below the weir. So no noise as a result of a waterfall effect. The noise is out of the emergency drains. The trickling is noisy. If I go more than a trickle it becomes silent.

Well, I dumbfounded. On my tank, it’s the reverse: trickle => no sound, more than trickle => gurgling sound.

Then again, I’m no expert.

 

[JGT]

There are 2 overflows in the tank. Both have siphons, both have the same function. Both weirs are the same height. And in case I wasn't clear, siphons are 12" below water line in tank/overflow, 1" below water line in sump.

 

[JGT]

Maybe I have unrealistic noise expectations. Adding a video with audio.