Quick question on cycling and the Bio-Spira.

[Gunzen]

Gunzen we got some momentum now heh, we’re gonna need some stat participations yep

Okay, up to date. Sorry, I do sleep occasionally.

 

[brandon429]

ha

we post at 4 am, when the pods are out


surely in all that purple gold, there's a crawling bug or at least a fanworm adhered?

the sole factor determining your thread outcome is whether or not that live rock was underwater for sixty days or better before you bought it

if it was/that store is reputable... they sold real live rock so nice I think mine is junk comparatively and ive cured it for twelve years.

If they lied and sold you caribsea life rock which is painted so well its hard to discern in pics, as live rock, then that's false selling and it could kill people's tanks.

I bet they did not lie, areas of imperfection on those rocks above show reality imo.

mine are that purple, but its not as nice of a hue

there's a bug somewhere in that tank. we gotta lay a single food pellet at the foot of that stack mountain at night. then flick on the lights real quick at 4 am for a rude wakeup

rascals w scurry.

your tank and rock will always be ammonia tough.

you can't harm your bacteria by re gifting of ammonia, it harms the animals we're looking for...the little ones that make up the base of a food web/provide movement and do interesting stuff so by habit we like to treat live rocks as already live colonies of animals who excrete ammonia away from themselves.

if there are none, then an ammonia spike wont hurt. if there are, as live rock should contain, then its better to add some frags and make this an ammonia free setup/ammonia dosing is for dry rocks.

*its still possible to assess your actual bacteria independent of anything the LFS did

it involves getting a salifert ammonia test kit, and bringing the tank to 1 or .5 ppm max with liquid exacting ammonia...then testing in 24 hours to see if a full cycle is required. api rarely work well in using small ammonia doses, and only small doses are the tolerance for suspected live rock bugs$

if we can find something living like a fanworm that is adhered to your live rock and expressing a little fan, that's ideal bc it took weeks and months for that accretion to take place, validating the submersion time of the rock.

if there are no life forms possible to see, then a digest test is no big deal.

 

[Gunzen]

ha

we post at 4 am, when the pods are out


surely in all that purple gold, there's a crawling bug or at least a fanworm adhered?

the sole factor determining your thread outcome is whether or not that live rock was underwater for sixty days or better before you bought it

if it was/that store is reputable... they sold real live rock so nice I think mine is junk comparatively and ive cured it for twelve years.

If they lied and sold you caribsea life rock which is painted so well its hard to discern in pics, as live rock, then that's false selling and it could kill people's tanks.

I bet they did not lie, areas of imperfection on those rocks above show reality imo.

mine are that purple, but its not as nice of a hue

there's a bug somewhere in that tank. we gotta lay a single food pellet at the foot of that stack mountain at night. then flick on the lights real quick at 4 am for a rude wakeup

rascals w scurry.

your tank and rock will always be ammonia tough.

you can't harm your bacteria by re gifting of ammonia, it harms the animals we're looking for...the little ones that make up the base of a food web/provide movement and do interesting stuff so by habit we like to treat live rocks as already live colonies of animals who excrete ammonia away from themselves.

if there are none, then an ammonia spike wont hurt. if there are, as live rock should contain, then its better to add some frags and make this an ammonia free setup/ammonia dosing is for dry rocks.

*its still possible to assess your actual bacteria independent of anything the LFS did

it involves getting a salifert ammonia test kit, and bringing the tank to 1 or .5 ppm max with liquid exacting ammonia...then testing in 24 hours to see if a full cycle is required. api rarely work well in using small ammonia doses, and only small doses are the tolerance for suspected live rock bugs$

if we can find something living like a fanworm that is adhered to your live rock and expressing a little fan, that's ideal bc it took weeks and months for that accretion to take place, validating the submersion time of the rock.

if there are no life forms possible to see, then a digest test is no big deal.

This is what I see. What would be the next step? And thanks for all the typing effort

 

[brandon429]

nice man, nice!

we should change out all the water and add some easy starter corals. don't add any more cycling assists, and when ammonia is zero either by waiting a while, or by changing all the water now, add some corals and treat that rock as if its a hundreds years old, ready to go.

don't quick stock fish in any system, get some starter corals. consider fallow times and QT for all fish, once you skip that/no easy going back.

load up on corals, then complete a fallow time, then add QT graduated fish for a bulletproof reef.

*the stuff im advocating is not to be cavalier and crazy its to match the actions we're taking exactly animals in tow, I feel its rule following not rule breaking. to me, its the first step in trusting your tank...that it could move home and need no new help from you.


that translates into one of these days, when you are about $500+ in the hole on coral expenditures, and your tank is invaded with something, you'll feel freer to clean the tank our correctly vs hesitate...because your bacteria will tolerate that too.


every time I clean out my aquarium, its the same stress as when I brought the rocks home from the store (my cleanings are that good) and since the tank tolerated it once, it has now tolerated the event about two thousand times

being able to know the boundaries of work literally sets our reaction boundaries for invasions, this is why I think cycling based on presence of micro benthic animals is highly highly important. this is now linked to the microbiology of cycling thread in the beginner forum.

 

[Gunzen]

nice man, nice!

we should change out all the water and add some easy starter corals. don't add any more cycling assists, and when ammonia is zero either by waiting a while, or by changing all the water now, add some corals and treat that rock as if its a hundreds years old, ready to go.

don't quick stock fish in any system, get some starter corals. consider fallow times and QT for all fish, once you skip that/no easy going back.

load up on corals, then complete a fallow time, then add QT graduated fish for a bulletproof reef.

*the stuff im advocating is not to be cavalier and crazy its to match the actions we're taking exactly animals in tow, I feel its rule following not rule breaking. to me, its the first step in trusting your tank...that it could move home and need no new help from you.


that translates into one of these days, when you are about $500+ in the hole on coral expenditures, and your tank is invaded with something, you'll feel freer to clean the tank our correctly vs hesitate...because your bacteria will tolerate that too.


every time I clean out my aquarium, its the same stress as when I brought the rocks home from the store (my cleanings are that good) and since the tank tolerated it once, it has now tolerated the event about two thousand times

being able to know the boundaries of work literally sets our reaction boundaries for invasions, this is why I think cycling based on presence of micro benthic animals is highly highly important. this is now linked to the microbiology of cycling thread in the beginner forum.

seems like if they were painted there would not be these on top. Looks like different corallines as well.

 

[brandon429]

nice nice

agreed they'd be sprayed red.

now for the die hard skeptics (good for us/counterbalances all rash moves online) they can claim that the rock was once cycled/hydrated to earn those worms...but then it was dried for storage, leaving those shells intact but uninhabited. They then sold it back to you without submersion time...that's why we need just a single one of those with a crown. You may be posting pics of worms with the fan part/pulsing part out out but my phone can't see the detail. this is a very fun and helpful exercise in using benthic verifications to manage ammonia level requirements.

so far in every way possible this appears to be legit live. I leave my entire reef drained for half an hour routinely while doing water changes, to condition it. I bet your trip from the pet store home was less than 30 mins, and they were under water the whole time ha! my reef only wishes it was treated that nicely.

mine's a fringing reef model, I want it exposed at times for training. its a cage fighter pico reef that better be able to resist some ill treatment, and bacteria permit all that. You could have brought your rocks home stacked in your trunk in the air and the bacteria still wouldn't die crazy huh. those animals would likely make the trip fine as well.

so......we've broken like nine prudent reefing laws so far. feels weird huh. doing so is prep for beating future invasions...nobody would think cycling could impact that, it darn sure does. the first thing an invasion needs is hesitation or mismatched action, itll secure the rest just fine within the tank. if you can match your invader required action to the most action your benthics will tolerate, and do it deliberately, you will have a perpetually uninvaded reef tank. no form of dinos, cyano, aiptasias, invasive macros, diatoms from the early stages, can set up shop in a reef ran deliberately.

 

[Gunzen]

J

nice nice

agreed they'd be sprayed red.

now for the die hard skeptics (good for us/counterbalances all rash moves online) they can claim that the rock was once cycled/hydrated to earn those worms...but then it was dried for storage, leaving those shells intact but uninhabited. They then sold it back to you without submersion time...that's why we need just a single one of those with a crown. You may be posting pics of worms with the fan part/pulsing part out out but my phone can't see the detail. this is a very fun and helpful exercise in using benthic verifications to manage ammonia level requirements.

so far in every way possible this appears to be legit live. I leave my entire reef drained for half an hour routinely while doing water changes, to condition it. I bet your trip from the pet store home was less than 30 mins, and they were under water the whole time ha! my reef only wishes it was treated that nicely.

mine's a fringing reef model, I want it exposed at times for training. its a cage fighter pico reef that better be able to resist some ill treatment, and bacteria permit all that. You could have brought your rocks home stacked in your trunk in the air and the bacteria still wouldn't die crazy huh. those animals would likely make the trip fine as well.

so......we've broken like nine prudent reefing laws so far. feels weird huh. doing so is prep for beating future invasions...nobody would think cycling could impact that, it darn sure does. the first thing an invasion needs is hesitation or mismatched action, itll secure the rest just fine within the tank. if you can match your invader required action to the most action your benthics will tolerate, and do it deliberately, you will have a perpetually uninvaded reef tank. no form of dinos, cyano, aiptasias, invasive macros, diatoms from the early stages, can set up shop in a reef ran deliberately.

Dude, I am a writer and I love your prose. So what now. Wife and I are going to dinner, should I bring something home from the LFS?

 

[brandon429]

only if that ammonia is down indeed, we might either wait or change water until is smells good in the tank (ammonia easy to detect/whiffing) and the kit registers zero

first frags nothing huge bioload, some mushroom corals if you like, zoanthids, a candy cane coral, all legit as long as the water is basically reset back to clean before addition. I never did see the size of your reef but if it was accessible, a near total change is fine, that's what we do in small old pico reefs (change it all)

thanks tons about the writing the truth is Im still learning and enjoy communicating about this science and frankly its got people's money on the line on the other end so it always seems like a pressure gradient was bested in the end...kind of like a workout... a step up towards complete and total control over what the tank does so no cash is lost.

by now, if you haven't dosed ammonia recently its likely been reduced anyway and nitrites wont even matter if there are some.

your benthic creatures appeared to be acting normal...no fanworm will ever open up in the presence of raw ammonia, given those factors it could be ready now. test kit variance makes it hard to know, but the truth is a fully cycled set of rocks is ammonia *hungry* its likely already safe due to natural command at least given a couple three days after the most recent ammonia dosing that was applied. if whatever ammonia hasn't killed your benthics, by the time you add coral they'll be just fine. if there was distress the small animal behavior would show it.

 

[Eggpaul]

Just started a 150 gallon tank with 124 lbs of dry rock and about 30 lbs of live rock. How long will it take to seed the dry rock? Should I add Bio-spira?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just started a 150 gallon tank with 124 lbs of dry rock and about 30 lbs of live rock. How long will it take to seed the dry rock? Should I add Bio-spira?

I would add a product like Dr Tims bacteria if you want to speed cycling.

 

[Gunzen]

I would add a product like Dr Tims bacteria if you want to speed cycling.

Not arguing, but my tank clocked in less than a week with Bio Spira.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not arguing, but my tank clocked in less than a week with Bio Spira.

I'm sure many brands are fine.

 

[Brew12]

Not arguing, but my tank clocked in less than a week with Bio Spira.

Biospira is my go to. It was developed by Dr Tim.

 

[tvu]

Biospira is my go to. It was developed by Dr Tim.

Same here with several builds.

 

[Eggpaul]

I would add a product like Dr Tims bacteria if you want to speed cycling.

done cycling for a while now after adding bio-spira. Helped a lot, thanks. I have 3 fish who are doing great and enjoying the space they have for now... Diatom bloom has begun. Nitrates are around 25. Will doa 30% water change to lower that today. Should I get some snails and hermit crabs to aid in the diatom control? My diamond goby is taking care of the sand, but the rocks are turning brown.

 

[Brew12]

done cycling for a while now after adding bio-spira. Helped a lot, thanks. I have 3 fish who are doing great and enjoying the space they have for now... Diatom bloom has begun. Nitrates are around 25. Will doa 30% water change to lower that today. Should I get some snails and hermit crabs to aid in the diatom control? My diamond goby is taking care of the sand, but the rocks are turning brown.

Yup, sounds like a good time to start adding a CuC

 

[Eggpaul]

Yup, sounds like a good time to start adding a CuC

I didn't quarantine my first 3 fish, but from now on I will quarantine. One of my clowns had the white stringy poop, so I fed medicated food (metro/focus) for the last 4 days. Didn't see any yesterday.

Do I have to quarantine a CUC??

 

[Brew12]

I didn't quarantine my first 3 fish, but from now on I will quarantine. One of my clowns had the white stringy poop, so I fed medicated food (metro/focus) for the last 4 days. Didn't see any yesterday.

Do I have to quarantine a CUC??

If you didn't QT your original fish, they likely have some parasites on them that they have an immunity toward. Depending on your stocking goals, this may or may not be a problem. For the white stringy poop, make sure you keep with the medicated food for at least 2 weeks to ensure you get it cleared up.

As for inverts, there is a risk any time you add something to your tank without QT. I would never add an invert from a LFS into my tank without doing QT unless they are in a system that doesn't share water with fish. Some online suppliers raise inverts in systems without fish, which is ideal. Some collect inverts from the ocean, which isn't quite as ideal but likely still fairly safe.

 

[Eggpaul]

If you didn't QT your original fish, they likely have some parasites on them that they have an immunity toward. Depending on your stocking goals, this may or may not be a problem. For the white stringy poop, make sure you keep with the medicated food for at least 2 weeks to ensure you get it cleared up.

As for inverts, there is a risk any time you add something to your tank without QT. I would never add an invert from a LFS into my tank without doing QT unless they are in a system that doesn't share water with fish. Some online suppliers raise inverts in systems without fish, which is ideal. Some collect inverts from the ocean, which isn't quite as ideal but likely still fairly safe.

My LFS keeps their water at 1.020. Planning to keep the quarantine at that level for easy transfer. then I can slowly raise it to transfer to DT. Is that good? Kind of nervous to do a freshwater dip. Is that necessary ?

 

[Brew12]

My LFS keeps their water at 1.020. Planning to keep the quarantine at that level for easy transfer. then I can slowly raise it to transfer to DT. Is that good? Kind of nervous to do a freshwater dip. Is that necessary ?

I like to set my QT system to the salinity that matches where they come from, so this is a good idea imo.

I would say a FW dip is more stressful on the hobbyist than the fish. I feel it is necessary in order to check for flukes. Watch Melypr's video on FW dips if you have concerns.