Really low phosphate but good nitrate and GHA and just lost now!

[Salty_Northerner]

Ok I'll try and keep short and to the point but I'll tend to babble so readers beware lol.

About 12 days ago my nitrates were around 14 and phosphates hovering around .021 area.. just about dipping below the .020 range.

Started getting small tuffs of GHA growing on the sand bed and was manually sucking it out.

I did a 50% WC as I vacuumed out about 50% of the sand bed. Added the new SW mix and called it a day. Checked Cal and it was at around 505, dkH 11, magnesium was close to 1600. I've been dosing AFR and reached out to TM about dosing afterwards.

Was told Cal is ok but mag was a bit high and dkh was high so just let things come down before dosing AFR again. I did that and thought things were ok.

Other clues that may help is my refractometer was bunk and reading way high even after being calibrated.. bought the Hanna tester for salinity and it read 1.020 ???

I thought nah the Hanna is way off so bought the TM high precision hydrometer and wouldn't you know the Hanna was pretty much bang on so that validates my idea of what meter was garbage. So with the 50% WC I brought up the SG with a bit of math to balance out to 1.026 and all was fine, fish were cool with it but the corals seemed a bit upset for a few days then they looked awesome! Also added a small amount of Fritz zyme 9 with the WC's weekly if that helps in this puzzle of mine.

Sorry went all over the place there.

Last Wednesday I checked levels.
SG 1.025
Nitrate 5.1
Phosphate 0.52
dkH 9.6
Mag 1580

Then come the weekend and nitrates were falling daily and kept dropping while phosphate kept rising.

Been checking some threads here and thought I could get a grasp of things and figured ok I can deal with this but obviously I can't.

I changed out the filter floss as I've never had it so dirty in just a week. Swapped out the seachem carbon bag as it was a few months old by this time. I instead just bought the loose seachem carbon and put a few tablespoons in a bag and thought I better just use carbon lightly and swap out the cut floss pads at the same time as they were filthy.

I asked my wife to check the levels Sunday monday and today.

This is what she got. And she tests as accurate as myself and I trust her. There's no testing error as we follow a strict procedure.

Sunday
Nitrate 4.5
Phosphate .058

Monday
Nitrate not tested
Phosphate .006

Today (Tuesday)
Nitrate 4.1
Phosphate .009 checked twice.
dkH 8.8

I got her to dose AFR @2ml today to bump dkH to 9

GHA is picking up it's pace growing on sand bed here and there. I've dialed up my pump to reef Crest mode for way more flow. Cerith, Austria, bumblebee and trocus snails don't go for the algae on the sand bed and the blue legged hermits pick around on the rocks and sand bed leaving the GHA alone. Also the red Scarlets would sooner hang on the rock scape and peck away at whatever they find but leave the GHA alone on sand bed.

I added an emerald crab but just popped him in on Saturday and wife said she's been seeing him more the past few days chilling between the rocks.. he's molting and my dottyback is keeping an eye out for him but the crab has been holding his own. I'm assuming he'll be out once he hardens up and hope he'll start eating the GHA.

Sorry again for going all over but tired and can't think all that straight.

Why is my phosphate bottoming out and nitrate also falling slowly? It can't be because I added a small amount of carbon and new filter floss can it??

Once I noticed the rise of phosphate we really slowed down on feeding.

I really don't understand what's going on. The amount of GHA surely can't be sucking up the phosphate that much as the GHA is to small and to sparsely on the sand bed.

I got her to add some ocean magik, a few ml's of RS ab+ and feed a few times today. Tomorrow I'll see if that helps raise the phosphate some, but I'm thinking something else is going on or am I over thinking this?

Tank is now 5 months old today.

We test with the HR Hanna nitrate checker and the Hanna ulr phosphorus checker and have the conversion chart at our disposal. Also mag has started to drop to 1560 as of the other day.

Fish are happy, corals happy as well and growing, and that darn GHA is making my sand bed look like poop.

One more thing, I've also added a bunch of rubble to my intank rack a month ago and also dropped a big of bag of bio gems in the bottom of the rear sump to help bacteria populate for my new larger system before it gets delivered any time in the next week. Could there be to much media for this small Nano tank? There's also about: guessing here: 15lbs of life Rock that's been it there from new that's 5 months old. Sand bed is just under an inch and I've also switched to the red sea black bucket from RC in the past month doing weekly 10-15% WC's and also the big 50% WC.

Who ever can make heads or tails of this all over post I owe ya a beer!

Thanks and appreciate any info you all can possibly share and help me understand what's going on here.

 

[Matt Bravo]

Ok, so I THINK you want help to deal with GHA right? As well as wondering if your parameters are a problem?

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be harsh however I think it would make others life’s easier if you could maybe shorten it to about 2 paragraphs, anyway

So you mention the tank is 5 months old, it could be that it’s still maturing. Do you have any corals in the system right now? Also how long are you running your lights for?
(It would also be helpful to name your current light and intensity it’s being run at)

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Ok, so I THINK you want help to deal with GHA right? As well as wondering if your parameters are a problem?

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be harsh however I think it would make others life’s easier if you could maybe shorten it to about 2 paragraphs, anyway

So you mention the tank is 5 months old, it could be that it’s still maturing. Do you have any corals in the system right now? Also how long are you running your lights for?
(It would also be helpful to name your current light and intensity it’s being run at)

I know better but typing on the phone I get lost to fast sorry.

I want GHA to go away and know why my nutrients are bottoming out, I have Xenia, GSP, blue mushroom frag, a huge Kenya tree, also 2 different zoa colonies around 18 to 20 heads and a paly of 7 heads and 2 frags of forest fire montipora and large green hairy mushroom.

Fish:
2 smaller clowns and an orchard dottyback.

Lighting is the Fluval Marine 25000k with two 21ledusa 12" 453nm light bars at 50% on timer.

Lighting schedule has a 2 hour ramp up. First hour is just the blue Channel from 5% to 100% (9-10am)

10:30am light bars come on
12-1:30 red at 100% and ramp down accordingly to off.

12pm - 6pm
 Cyan 100%
Blue 100%
Royal blue 85%
Cool white 60%

6-8pm
Cyan, royal blue and cool white drop to 40%

9pm light bars turn off.

Then 9pm its just the fluval light ramping down the blue from 100% to 5% and 10-11 the 5% fades to off.

 

[Matt Bravo]

The main reason I asked if you had any corals was because a common way to "fix" algae problems is doing a complete black out for about 3 days but I've never tried it so I wont recommend. As far as lighting, you are running it for 9 hours right? if possible I would recommend cutting down to 8 as previously stated and since you mainly have softies ( no lps/sps listed) you could probably lower light intensity as well. remember, algae is photosynthetic too, the more you feed it, the more it will grow.

to combat low nutrients, depending on the size of your system you could also add another fish in. how big is your system?

 

[twelvefive]

The corals would be fine with a few days of blackout as long as they're otherwise happy/healthy.

Phyto isn't going to help your nutrients rise, it's going to help them drop. GHA will suck up nutrients super fast so it's hard to measure accurately when it's present.

I think your tank is newish and this is normal as long as you don't let it get out of hand, it's fine. You mention a few CUC, how much and what all do you have?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

The main reason I asked if you had any corals was because a common way to "fix" algae problems is doing a complete black out for about 3 days but I've never tried it so I wont recommend. As far as lighting, you are running it for 9 hours right? if possible I would recommend cutting down to 8 as previously stated and since you mainly have softies ( no lps/sps listed) you could probably lower light intensity as well. remember, algae is photosynthetic too, the more you feed it, the more it will grow.

to combat low nutrients, depending on the size of your system you could also add another fish in. how big is your system?

I've dialed the lights down some and now the corals are reaching towards the lights. I was going to drop in some seachem phosphate absorb but that's a no go. Phosphate is pretty much has bottomed out.

This is a Fluval 13.5 and I do have a good supply of pods in the tank. I know when my nitrates were around 14 or 15 I never had any GHA. But now with low nitrates it seems to be taking off.

I don't know anymore, maybe the tank is too clean and probably I'll just let it run its course until I break it down. Everything except the sand and water will be transferred over to the new system within the next couple weeks and hopefully with the larger tank I'll be able to control things better.

The higher intensity light. Is about 6 hours and the remaining time is ramp up and ramp down. My wife was telling me yesterday that the GHA seems to be progressing more since the weekend so I'll probably get her to drop the light bars down to 25% and see what it looks like in a few days.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

The corals would be fine with a few days of blackout as long as they're otherwise happy/healthy.

Phyto isn't going to help your nutrients rise, it's going to help them drop. GHA will suck up nutrients super fast so it's hard to measure accurately when it's present.

I think your tank is newish and this is normal as long as you don't let it get out of hand, it's fine. You mention a few CUC, how much and what all do you have?

Two large trocus, 2 Astria, 2 bumblebee, 2 cerith and a couple others I can't remember the names of. Also just added an emerald crab but he's molting right now. For blue-legged hermits and 2 Scarlet Hermits.

So you thinking I should stop adding phyto? What about the ab+?

I know my cuc we're pretty much starving for some time as there's nothing really for them to eat. Soon as they would catch a whiff of Mysis shrimp being fed to the fish they would all scatter throughout the tank and there was a time where I would drop food in the one corner for them to feast on and now with the GHA they don't seem very interested.

If there's any other ideas besides doing a block out that would be appreciated otherwise I will black the tank out for a couple days, or maybe I should just say hell with it and just leave the tank alone entirely and see what happens. I'm going to call my local water shop where I get my RO water from. I know they use a good system but they do not deionize the water but they do send samples off weekly in accordance to the health law in my town. I know on the side of the five gallon container it says there's four TDS in the water so I should probably see what it is.

 

[Matt Bravo]

Okay, 25 is likely too low for lights. Don’t get discouraged. Get lights down slowly and keep lights on for 8 hours, I wouldn’t recommend going lower for your corals health. 50’s should be fine. I don’t know why it didn’t dawn on me earlier, do you have reef roids? I have a 10 gallon that had an outbreak of Dino’s due to 0 phos. I simply started feeding reef roids. Remember it might take a while for them to fully leave. Just be patient and trust the process,

(For CUC reference I have about 20 snails in a 10 gallon, get turbos. They are incredible ime)

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Okay, 25 is likely too low for lights. Don’t get discouraged. Get lights down slowly and keep lights on for 8 hours, I wouldn’t recommend going lower for your corals health. 50’s should be fine. I don’t know why it didn’t dawn on me earlier, do you have reef roids? I have a 10 gallon that had an outbreak of Dino’s due to 0 phos. I simply started feeding reef roids. Remember it might take a while for them to fully leave. Just be patient and trust the process,

(For CUC reference I have about 20 snails in a 10 gallon, get turbos. They are incredible ime)

Actually these light bars are pretty intense. That's 50% in conjunction with the main light kicks off a lot of par for the depth of the tank. My rock worked too is pretty high up near the top.

The only food I use for the corals is Red Sea AB+ for the aminos and once in awhile I will spot feed using Mysis shrimp and once a day I toss in a couple mL of ocean magik pyto.

I don't have any Reef roids but that's about one of the only products I can get where I live so I'll be sure to grab some from your advice tomorrow evening when I get home. How much would you recommend I put in the tank?

Also here are my light setup under the stock Fluval canopy. I had to dial back the exposure just to see the lights.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I called the store I buy my RO water from and I asked him what are the four TDS that you have labeled on your containers and he said we actually have 10 TDS but didn't really get into too much detail on what it was.

That now has me looking to invest in a BRS rodi for stage plus system and be a little bit more confident on what I'm actually putting in the tank.

Lsf where I live are useless, they told me these were turbo snails and I looked at the girl and I said I think you should probably educate yourself a little more because they certainly we're not turbos. That was one of my main reasons going down to the store last week was to pick up some algae munchers but all they had were Astria and zero movement out of the whole bunch so I wasn't going to spend the money on a half dead snail but I did pick the small emerald crab out of the bunch as he was the only one just going to town cleaning the rocks off.

 

[twelvefive]

Try skipping phyto for a couple of days, keep up the ab+, then check your nitrates and phosphates. Reef Roids will also help, I add about 1/8th tsp to my 32 daily, so you don't need much.

I agree, add a turbo or two and some nerites or dwarf trochus.

Being in control of your water will also help.

 

[Matt Bravo]

Try skipping phyto for a couple of days, keep up the ab+, then check your nitrates and phosphates. Reef Roids will also help, I add about 1/8th tsp to my 32 daily, so you don't need much.

I agree, add a turbo or two and some nerites or dwarf trochus.

Being in control of your water will also help.

+1 on the amount of reef roids
Don’t agree much on the amount of snails though, not to be disrespectful or anything it’s just that I’ve been super unlucky and gotten some of the LAZIEST SNAILS in the world. I always get a good chunk just to hope that at least 4 will do their job haha

 

[twelvefive]

+1 on the amount of reef roids
Don’t agree much on the amount of snails though, not to be disrespectful or anything it’s just that I’ve been super unlucky and gotten some of the LAZIEST SNAILS in the world. I always get a good chunk just to hope that at least 4 will do their job haha

My only concern is that his tank is only 13.5 gallons, two big turbos take up a lot of space so replacing one with some smaller snails that have the same diet (they actually work harder than the turbo in my tank).

I agree with a big CUC though, I probably have over 100 snails in my 32.

 

[Matt Bravo]

My only concern is that his tank is only 13.5 gallons, two big turbos take up a lot of space so replacing one with some smaller snails that have the same diet (they actually work harder than the turbo in my tank).

I agree with a big CUC though, I probably have over 100 snails in my 32.

I have about 20 turbos in my 10g, 2 nassaruis, 3 scarlet hermits and 2 peppermint shrimp. They have had huge impacts on my algae. I think OP should get quantity that way it’s more of the tank getting cleaned. That’s just my opinion though.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Yes I know the importance of a cuc but that's why my original post was all over the place which I really do apologize for guys.

My nutrients are basically zero. I know when Randy in another post a while back was telling me I'm teetering on the low side of phosphate being at 0.019 where I should be at .020 or just above. Nitrates were around 15 and testing the phosphorus before conversion was at 20 ppb. Now nitrates are sitting at 4.1 and phosphate like I said it's basically bottomed out.

I was on the assumption that GHA grows in dirtier water with higher nutrients, but looking at my numbers how is it possible that I'm getting GHA?

Here is some of the stuff my wife sucked off the sand bed with a turkey baster.

 

[Matt Bravo]

Yes I know the importance of a cuc but that's why my original post was all over the place which I really do apologize for guys.

My nutrients are basically zero. I know when Randy in another post a while back was telling me I'm teetering on the low side of phosphate being at 0.019 where I should be at .020 or just above. Nitrates were around 15 and testing the phosphorus before conversion was at 20 ppb. Now nitrates are sitting at 4.1 and phosphate like I said it's basically bottomed out.

I was on the assumption that GHA grows in dirtier water with higher nutrients, but looking at my numbers how is it possible that I'm getting GHA?

Here is some of the stuff my wife sucked off the sand bed with a turkey baster.

Yeah, definitely try reef roids and spot feed any corals you have. Also how big is your system?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

It's a soon to be broken down 13.5 Fluval.. I ordered a water box system 2 months ago and hopefully we'll be receiving it anytime from now till 2 weeks and I would like to get a grasp on things now rather than have to deal with it later on down the road in the new system.

My new system is going to be set up with 50% of my live rock and will be sitting in the dark with a couple jars of Galaxy pods for the next 4 months so hopefully I can avoid all this nonsense when I do turn the lights on and transfer everything over minus the sand and water of course.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Yeah, definitely try reef roids and spot feed any corals you have. Also how big is your system?

Can I ask why you guys are suggesting I use Reef roids to spot feed the coral, is it to keep them healthy during this nutrition deficiency I'm going through or is this going to do something to the water chemistry and raise my phosphates up to desirable levels?

 

[Matt Bravo]

It's a soon to be broken down 13.5 Fluval.. I ordered a water box system 2 months ago and hopefully we'll be receiving it anytime from now till 2 weeks and I would like to get a grasp on things now rather than have to deal with it later on down the road in the new system.

My new system is going to be set up with 50% of my live rock and will be sitting in the dark with a couple jars of Galaxy pods for the next 4 months so hopefully I can avoid all this nonsense when I do turn the lights on and transfer everything over minus the sand and water of course.

im slow. I forgot the name was in on of the last few posts haha. Sorry. Anyway im about to set up a 40gallon breeder too! How big is your water box?

 

[Matt Bravo]

Can I ask why you guys are suggesting I use Reef roids to spot feed the coral, is it to keep them healthy during this nutrition deficiency I'm going through or is this going to do something to the water chemistry and raise my phosphates up to desirable levels?

A bit of both tbh but mainly to get phos up. Since it’s such a small system I would only do it a day before you do a WC. Instead of just dumping it in the tank why not let your corals benefit from it?