Red Sea Tank Fails, AGAIN! Any Recommendations?

[BeanAnimal]

Just as I said, it's impossible to know the sales numbers or the percentage of breakages. There are 800,000 salt water aquarists in the US - and 2 million world-wide. RedSea acknowledged that a couple of their larger tanks had an issue - and they provided a brace. Other than those types of tanks - I'm not aware that other tanks don't have more or less problems. Most people with no problems don't post 'Today my tank is doing great'. That said - of course I have deep sympathy for anyone thats had a huge mess/lost coral/fish/etc. There is another thread out there with a list of people who had significant problems with another brand of tank. when I buy a tank - I assume - that some day - it may very well leak. I've had one experience with this - with another manufacturer. when a fish knocked a piece of rock and it made a small crack/leak in the bottom glass - of course this rapidly became a big mess.

I think you are somewhat missing my point.

Napkin math....
2 Million demographic.
Let's say 20% of those are "large" tanks in the 125 - 175 gallon range.
=400,000 thousand aquariums.

The vast majority of "larger" glass tanks sold over the last 3 decades were All-Glass, Ocean or Marineland and the vast majority of those being the standard 125 gallon plastic trim tank. So let's say that of the 400,000 10% of those are sold in the last 5 years. so 40,000 aquariums.

Now consider that for the past 10 or more years the trend for 125+ gallon aquariums as predominately acrylic. Let's guess 60/40 (more like 80/20... but we will be kind) So that 40,000 glass aquariums becomes 24,000 GLASS aquariums.

Now let's assume 20 glass aquarium vendors but Red Sea is large, so let's give them 15% market share. That is 3,600 aquariums in the size range we are talking about.

If you can find 50 reports of failures on the internet there are likely 150 failures real world (reported or not), and almost ALL OF THEM are the same basic failure.... That is approaching a theoretical 5% (1 in 20) failure rate.

Are my numbers accurate? Maybe and maybe not even close. But the point I am making is that the number of systems sold is small so ANY reports, let alone a rash of them following a patterns is significant.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Right - because they were flooding people's houses - at least that was the reason I was told when I was out to buy a new tank 5 or so years ago

Those channels have an extremely litigious target on them and are staffed by rather uninformed people selling to rather uninformed people. Profit margins are slim and things such as a quality stand and trained advice are not part of the calculus. Was it actual tank defects that lead to failures or negligent staff and people coupled with inability to profit in the space with the product? A small number of consumer caused failures and one or two lawyers are enough for any vendor to rethink their exposure, esp when the profit sweet spot (in this case) is smaller aquariums with less liability.


Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at a business model for what it is. In this case, those companies don't give a hoot what they sell as long as they can profit from selling it. Large tanks in petco is not profitable.

 

[BeanAnimal]

And as luck would have it - the bottom seam on my 25+ year old All-Glass may be starting to leak... good grief. Should have never entered this conversation.

 

[MnFish1]

Those channels have an extremely litigious target on them and are staffed by rather uninformed people selling to rather uninformed people. Profit margins are slim and things such as a quality stand and trained advice are not part of the calculus. Was it actual tank defects that lead to failures or negligent staff and people coupled with inability to profit in the space with the product? A small number of consumer caused failures and one or two lawyers are enough for any vendor to rethink their exposure, esp when the profit sweet spot (in this case) is smaller aquariums with less liability.


Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at a business model for what it is. In this case, those companies don't give a hoot what they sell as long as they can profit from selling it. Large tanks in petco is not profitable.

I see your point - however in the past - when tanks were mostly sold at aquarium stores it was the same issue. I believe that a couple companies had major problems and quit making large tanks (but still make small tanks). Innovative marine had issues a while back - (at least according to this link and several other threads). https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/to...ine-nuvo-24-complete-failure-do-not-buy-ever/

 

[MnFish1]

And as luck would have it - the bottom seam on my 25+ year old All-Glass may be starting to leak... good grief. Should have never entered this conversation.

Oh no - if you need anything holler.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Oh no - if you need anything holler.

Not panicking - but def have a problem. Left a msg for Felix at Reef Savvy to see how fast he could turn something around but I may not have the time for anything custom from anybody.


As such, more worried about the swap.... and the toll the disruption will take on the livestock if I have to swap tanks.

 

[MnFish1]

I think you are somewhat missing my point.

Napkin math....
2 Million demographic.
Let's say 20% of those are "large" tanks in the 125 - 175 gallon range.
=400,000 thousand aquariums.

The vast majority of "larger" glass tanks sold over the last 3 decades were All-Glass, Ocean or Marineland and the vast majority of those being the standard 125 gallon plastic trim tank. So let's say that of the 400,000 10% of those are sold in the last 5 years. so 40,000 aquariums.

Now consider that for the past 10 or more years the trend for 125+ gallon aquariums as predominately acrylic. Let's guess 60/40 (more like 80/20... but we will be kind) So that 40,000 glass aquariums becomes 24,000 GLASS aquariums.

Now let's assume 20 glass aquarium vendors but Red Sea is large, so let's give them 15% market share. That is 3,600 aquariums in the size range we are talking about.

If you can find 50 reports of failures on the internet there are likely 150 failures real world (reported or not), and almost ALL OF THEM are the same basic failure.... That is approaching a theoretical 5% (1 in 20) failure rate.

Are my numbers accurate? Maybe and maybe not even close. But the point I am making is that the number of systems sold is small so ANY reports, let alone a rash of them following a patterns is significant.

EDIT - I did not realize your problem when you posted - you can forget this answer. I hope everything goes ok.

You gave it a try - but when you build assumption on assumption on assumption - it makes the conclusion a bit weaker (not necessarily false). I don't know where you get the concept that for 10 years the trend has been acrylic. But - there is also a thread complaining about a major acrylic tank manufacturer (which can be searched for here - but I won't name because I didn't have any issues with them). So I'm going to do the math a little differently

1. There are 800,000 saltwater aquarists in the US.
2. Many people have more than 1 tank (I have 2 Redsea - and 2 bow front marineland tanks.
3. so lets say the average aquarist has 1.5 tanks. so - there are 1.2 million tanks in the US for SALTWATER
4. This does not include freshwater tanks. My guess is there are a lot more (in fact - according to google, there are 11.8 million households according to one article. Fish are the highest kept pet in the US. (this site says 2.9 million saltwater tanks) - but lets use the 1.2 million in #3.
5. This means there are about 13 million households in the US with aquaria.
6. Will use your figure, 15% RedSea - 1.95 million tanks.

Am I doing the math incorrectly?

 

[MnFish1]

Not panicking - but def have a problem. Left a msg for Felix at Reef Savvy to see how fast he could turn something around but I may not have the time for anything custom from anybody.


As such, more worried about the swap.... and the toll the disruption will take on the livestock if I have to swap tanks.

The swap is easily managed. keep flow - in whatever you decide to put your rock into - an airstone, if you somehow can get a canister filter - do that - and seed it. Fritz 9000 can pretty reliably treat ammonia. Neither the fish nor the corals are likely to be affected by a couple days of lower light. Hope this helps.

 

[BeanAnimal]

EDIT - I did not realize your problem when you posted - you can forget this answer. I hope everything goes ok.

You gave it a try - but when you build assumption on assumption on assumption - it makes the conclusion a bit weaker (not necessarily false). I don't know where you get the concept that for 10 years the trend has been acrylic. But - there is also a thread complaining about a major acrylic tank manufacturer (which can be searched for here - but I won't name because I didn't have any issues with them). So I'm going to do the math a little differently

1. There are 800,000 saltwater aquarists in the US.
2. Many people have more than 1 tank (I have 2 Redsea - and 2 bow front marineland tanks.
3. so lets say the average aquarist has 1.5 tanks. so - there are 1.2 million tanks in the US for SALTWATER
4. This does not include freshwater tanks. My guess is there are a lot more (in fact - according to google, there are 11.8 million households according to one article. Fish are the highest kept pet in the US. (this site says 2.9 million saltwater tanks) - but lets use the 1.2 million in #3.
5. This means there are about 13 million households in the US with aquaria.
6. Will use your figure, 15% RedSea - 1.95 million tanks.

Am I doing the math incorrectly?

My problem is not going to solve itself or be solvable today. Working on possible solutions.

Yes - lots of assumption, but reasonably informed and logical. The overwhelming majority of aquariums are in the 10-40 gallon range with the next tier being 55s and then standard 75s and 90s with a far smaller demographic. Both salt and fresh. I could ask a local large turnover LFS in business since 1969 next time I am in.

I don't think 15% of ALL aquariums are Red Sea by a longshot. The vast majority of glass are Oceanic, Marineland, All glass, top-fin, aqueon and seapora and tetra. The brands sold by major big-box and most LFS. The "red sea" systems are higher end, and the larger ones far more expensive. A niche in the hobby, not mainstream.

So that above and only a small portion of whatever number of households have one that is is glass and between 100 and 160 gallons.

Purchased during the timeframe that RS has made the models in question.

RS will never divulge their numbers, but logically it is in the thousands to maybe tens of thousands neighborhood. I would be (honestly) shocked if it were more.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The swap is easily managed. keep flow - in whatever you decide to put your rock into - an airstone, if you somehow can get a canister filter - do that - and seed it. Fritz 9000 can pretty reliably treat ammonia. Neither the fish nor the corals are likely to be affected by a couple days of lower light. Hope this helps.

Yeah the plan would be a few stock tanks and start filling them with system water and some rock from the sump to get them started. I have spare lights and will grab a HOB power filter.

I just need find somewhere to get a replacement tank and if I am going through the trouble, would prefer custom. I would prefer glass, but may end up with acrylic (not a fan, but maybe faster to get custom).


On top of that - the jedi mind trick for upsizing without being sent to sleep in the shed by the warden.

 

[paulgriffin971]

I am dealing with this exact same issue right now--on 2 Red Sea Reefer tanks at the exact same time. And NONE of this is fraudulent--I've documented, have videos, and pictured stuff until my phone was battery dead at least 5 times now just to prove EXACTLY what's happened and when.

One tank is a RS 250 that I purchased just under 3 years ago. The other is a RS 625 XXL that I bought in September of 2020. The tanks aren't the only issue. It's also the REEFLED's that loose wifi and go off on some random schedule, as well that the power bricks that overheat to the point you can't even touch them, but I digress.

For being sold in so many stores, you would THINK Red Sea would be more apt to quality control, design, and testing before flooding the market with aquariums that SHOULD last 5-10-20 years. My Oceanic 90 gallon lasted 2 moves and 12 years, so something is up with these RS tanks.

I'm at the point of starting a class action so if anyone wants to join me let me know. My YT links are at the bottom of this post, but for those who want read about this journey, here's a little history on what has happened to me up until today:

1. Purchased a RS-170 max in 2018. Absolutely flawless tank. Never had an issue. Came as a kit with a AI Hydra 26 and mounting arm. When I say never had an issue, I mean NEVER. I simply out grew the tank, so went with the slightly larger 65 gallon RS-250 that had a sump.

2. A few months after I bought the 250, I pulled the trigger on a RS-625XXL that was on sale locally. It was supposedly the upgraded version that came with this new design of a metal brace to support the front of the cabinet between the two left-handed-most doors. I went with RS because of the success I had with the little 170, and--until that point--the 250. I was also impressed with the 3 year warranty.

3. In 2022 I started smelling a strange plastic smell in my living room where the 625 is located and couldn't trace it. Finally, I opened the door to equipment side and the ReefLed 90's power bricks were scalding hot to the point I could hardly touch them. I contacted RS and let them know, and they sent me new power bricks. New one's still got hot,but not quite as hot, so I figured problem solved.

4. From 2022 to 2023 I dealt with constant wifi connectivity issues with the ReefLed's. They would come un-grouped and totally forget what schedule I had programmed. I'd un-install, re-install, and then re-program--over, and over, and over again. Finally I found a couple used Kessil AP700's, installed those, and put the RS 90's aside. Haven't had a lighting issue since.

3. Earlier this year-- 2023, the silicone sections that held the sump dividers on the RS625 came away from the sides and caused my skimmer to overflow and my ATO float to go bonkers. I contacted RS, and they sent me a replacement sump. I asked about getting an upgraded sump (based on their new design and materials) so that I could buy their new ReefMat 1200 and not have to cut the silicone, but they said the newer sumps weren't capatible, and that they stopped making the 625XXL. About a week later, I got the replacement sump, had to take all my equipment apart, and then re-install the new one. But I was able to install a new ReefMat 1200 while the repalcement sump was out. Happy with he replacement and the RM1200, and went on with life. So far, so good---so I thought....

4. On April 21, 2023 at 7pm PDT, this past Friday, I was sitting in my recliner eating a sandwich and heard what I thought was a mountain stream on the TV show I was watching. But--I was watching Bing Bang Theory; No streams there.... It sounding like something was leaking but I didn't see anything with the 625 that was directly across from me in my chair, so I hit the TV mute button. Then I realized it was coming frrom behind me in my dining room were the Reefer 250 was. I got up, turned around and the bottom front glass was spraying water like one of those little bird-bath-peeing-boy-angels. I mean----like a steady stream. Grabbed a bucket and scrambled around for the next 5-6 hours with buckets, mop, rubbermaid tub, and towels. Made sure to grab my phone too--for documenting the damage, the equipment failure, and the pain and suffering I had to deal with. Both for future litigation and for a potential homeowners claim.

5. At about 10:30 PM I finally had all the salt water mopped up, the tank, cabinet, and equipment all moved outside, the live rock placed into a rubbermaid, and started to really evaluate the damage. During the process of dealing with he 250, I thought, "OH crap, if this is happening on my 250 tank, what about my big 625 with my close to $20,000 worth of corals and fish??!!!

6. Low and behold, I looked at my 625 and sure enough the bottom silicone was separating in the EXACT same area as everyone else's is having the issue, and in the EXACT SAME place where the 250 silicone failed on mine. It wasn't quite leaking yet, but you could see the silicone had about 10% to go before it below the front glass pane out and I would have close to 150 gallons of saltwater and bacteria on my hardwood flooring. I was LIVID! But--I had the PROOF and I had it all on VIDEO and ALL documented since this journey to Red Sea hell commenced.

7. I went the the place where I had purchased the tanks and was told only Red Sea can deal with your issues. OK, that's cool the LFS didn't do anything wrong. So, I contacted Red Sea and asked them what they intended to do. I informed them that I wanted one of their reps to come to my home and see the tanks for themselves and to negotiate a settlement on how they were going to make me whole. If I was in business this is EXACTLY what I would do--spend $2000 on airline ticket to come to a customers home or business and see EXACTLY what has happened to TWO of the tanks my company manufactured. Or better yet, make a few stops around the country where SEVERAL of my company's tanks were failing to get to the bottom of what's going on.

8. On Monday April 24 I got a response from RS to the effect of, "We're sorry, we can't find your proof of purchase. Please send it to us. (I should emphasize here that even though you have to upload your proof of purchase, serial number, address, and email in order to get the 12 month extended warranty for a total of 3 years, they wanted me to send it to them AGAIN to prove that I in fact bought the tank) "Also, please start a separate claim on the 625 and if it's going to fail, drain it." I'm like--drain it? And put it where? And what about my $20K worth of corals, fish and equipment? Do I just go buy another tank and then you all send me a replacement in 2-3 weeks that is based on the EXACT same design and material flaws as those that failed with the tanks I have now? The same tanks that aren't even 3 years old that are blowing out? Have got to be kidding me....

And this is where I sit today. One tank blew out and one on the way to blowing out.

Like I said, as far as I'm concerned a class-action is coming because this company KNOWS of the material issues with their tanks and they KEEP sending out tanks based on the EXACT SAME design flaw that is readily known by both them and the public. As a matter of fact, RS had to upgrade the cabinets on the 600 and 700 series tanks with that little cabinet brace, had several tank failures across their larger tank lines, and then came out with Reefer G2's and the far superior tank bracing--even some with METAL cabinets and euro bracing. But guess what? They completely discontinued the 625 and 700 series tanks all together. Coincidence? And why is it that their tanks all seem to fail right around that 2.5 to 3 year mark of the warranty period? Yet another coincidence?

I'm sorry and I know I blew your thread up, but I am beyond ticked. Like I said a class action is coming, so if any of you would be interested in pursuing one with me, let me know. I'm in CA where we have some pretty stringent consumer laws pertaining to companies that sell faulty and similarly dangerous equipment. Could a person be maimed or killed by a 165- gallon glass aquarium made with faulty materials, means, and methods blowing out while said person tried to perform the simple task of looking at their fish and coral. I would venture to say yes......

Anyway, you all can follow along on my journey with these tanks on my youtube channel here:

 

[tmccaff]

I have a Red Sea Max E 170 5 years now no issue but now I am worried. What should you look for in seam failures?

 

[Simon Reefing]

Actually - I don't have a dog in the race, per se. I own a tank, and have had no problems. If it had had a problem - I would have reported it. You're right, it's hard to get hard data - but that goes both ways. However, I do trust when the company says they have 100K+ tanks sold worldwide, and I also believe it when they say they have 79K members on their Facebook page and 75K likes. Waterbox has 22K members on their page, and Planet Aquariums has about 12K likes. I would assume that most of the people who are followers or liked the company(ies) are positive on the company.

I have bought most big brand tanks and just bought a new waterbox this is actually my second WB. I am in the Red Sea Facebook group and not in the waterbox group. I have never owned a Red Sea tank.

 

[MischiefReef]

Hi everyone! I have an emergency and cannot really believe this is happening to me again. Back in 2019 I purchased what I thought was a wonderful tank! Everything was going great with my Red Sea 525 XL until it started leaking from one of the sides in 2020. Of course, I lost livestock and suffered some damages caused by the water. After reaching out, Red Sea agreed to change my tank and sent me a “new one“ under the limited warranty. Fast forward to last Friday 4/21/23 at 4:00 AM and my tank was leaking AGAIN! This time, the leak was from the bottom and the tank dumped all the water out in less than 2 minutes. I was able to save all my fish and transfer them to the sump. The corals I had were then placed in a small Waterbox tank. This is the second time in less thank 5 years that my tank fails on me. I do not scrape the edge, I do not go crazy cleaning, my stand and tank are perfectly leveled, etc. My questions are:

Is this a common issue with this tanks? I see tons of posts and a local guy told me the brand is prone to issues with the side and bottom silicone.

What brand do you guys recommend? I am between Innovative Marine and WaterBox, but I am open to suggestions.

Thank you!

Wow, sorry to hear your troubles! That’s is a nightmare scenario!
For rimless tanks I personally have used Prostar tanks and prefer them over the Red Sea tanks. Especially with all the stories on this forum of the front and bottom seals on the Red Sea tanks leaking. The prostar tank has a bottom frame it sits in that cradles the entire tank. For added security you can even eurobrace it yourself for less than $200 in glass and silicone. Also it’s pretty easy to level your tank with the adjustable legs on the stand.

 

[Simon Reefing]

I am dealing with this exact same issue right now--on 2 Red Sea Reefer tanks at the exact same time. And NONE of this is fraudulent--I've documented, have videos, and pictured stuff until my phone was battery dead at least 5 times now just to prove EXACTLY what's happened and when.

One tank is a RS 250 that I purchased just under 3 years ago. The other is a RS 625 XXL that I bought in September of 2020. The tanks aren't the only issue. It's also the REEFLED's that loose wifi and go off on some random schedule, as well that the power bricks that overheat to the point you can't even touch them, but I digress.

For being sold in so many stores, you would THINK Red Sea would be more apt to quality control, design, and testing before flooding the market with aquariums that SHOULD last 5-10-20 years. My Oceanic 90 gallon lasted 2 moves and 12 years, so something is up with these RS tanks.

I'm at the point of starting a class action so if anyone wants to join me let me know. My YT links are at the bottom of this post, but for those who want read about this journey, here's a little history on what has happened to me up until today:

1. Purchased a RS-170 max in 2018. Absolutely flawless tank. Never had an issue. Came as a kit with a AI Hydra 26 and mounting arm. When I say never had an issue, I mean NEVER. I simply out grew the tank, so went with the slightly larger 65 gallon RS-250 that had a sump.

2. A few months after I bought the 250, I pulled the trigger on a RS-625XXL that was on sale locally. It was supposedly the upgraded version that came with this new design of a metal brace to support the front of the cabinet between the two left-handed-most doors. I went with RS because of the success I had with the little 170, and--until that point--the 250. I was also impressed with the 3 year warranty.

3. In 2022 I started smelling a strange plastic smell in my living room where the 625 is located and couldn't trace it. Finally, I opened the door to equipment side and the ReefLed 90's power bricks were scalding hot to the point I could hardly touch them. I contacted RS and let them know, and they sent me new power bricks. New one's still got hot,but not quite as hot, so I figured problem solved.

4. From 2022 to 2023 I dealt with constant wifi connectivity issues with the ReefLed's. They would come un-grouped and totally forget what schedule I had programmed. I'd un-install, re-install, and then re-program--over, and over, and over again. Finally I found a couple used Kessil AP700's, installed those, and put the RS 90's aside. Haven't had a lighting issue since.

3. Earlier this year-- 2023, the silicone sections that held the sump dividers on the RS625 came away from the sides and caused my skimmer to overflow and my ATO float to go bonkers. I contacted RS, and they sent me a replacement sump. I asked about getting an upgraded sump (based on their new design and materials) so that I could buy their new ReefMat 1200 and not have to cut the silicone, but they said the newer sumps weren't capatible, and that they stopped making the 625XXL. About a week later, I got the replacement sump, had to take all my equipment apart, and then re-install the new one. But I was able to install a new ReefMat 1200 while the repalcement sump was out. Happy with he replacement and the RM1200, and went on with life. So far, so good---so I thought....

4. On April 21, 2023 at 7pm PDT, this past Friday, I was sitting in my recliner eating a sandwich and heard what I thought was a mountain stream on the TV show I was watching. But--I was watching Bing Bang Theory; No streams there.... It sounding like something was leaking but I didn't see anything with the 625 that was directly across from me in my chair, so I hit the TV mute button. Then I realized it was coming frrom behind me in my dining room were the Reefer 250 was. I got up, turned around and the bottom front glass was spraying water like one of those little bird-bath-peeing-boy-angels. I mean----like a steady stream. Grabbed a bucket and scrambled around for the next 5-6 hours with buckets, mop, rubbermaid tub, and towels. Made sure to grab my phone too--for documenting the damage, the equipment failure, and the pain and suffering I had to deal with. Both for future litigation and for a potential homeowners claim.

5. At about 10:30 PM I finally had all the salt water mopped up, the tank, cabinet, and equipment all moved outside, the live rock placed into a rubbermaid, and started to really evaluate the damage. During the process of dealing with he 250, I thought, "OH crap, if this is happening on my 250 tank, what about my big 625 with my close to $20,000 worth of corals and fish??!!!

6. Low and behold, I looked at my 625 and sure enough the bottom silicone was separating in the EXACT same area as everyone else's is having the issue, and in the EXACT SAME place where the 250 silicone failed on mine. It wasn't quite leaking yet, but you could see the silicone had about 10% to go before it below the front glass pane out and I would have close to 150 gallons of saltwater and bacteria on my hardwood flooring. I was LIVID! But--I had the PROOF and I had it all on VIDEO and ALL documented since this journey to Red Sea hell commenced.

7. I went the the place where I had purchased the tanks and was told only Red Sea can deal with your issues. OK, that's cool the LFS didn't do anything wrong. So, I contacted Red Sea and asked them what they intended to do. I informed them that I wanted one of their reps to come to my home and see the tanks for themselves and to negotiate a settlement on how they were going to make me whole. If I was in business this is EXACTLY what I would do--spend $2000 on airline ticket to come to a customers home or business and see EXACTLY what has happened to TWO of the tanks my company manufactured. Or better yet, make a few stops around the country where SEVERAL of my company's tanks were failing to get to the bottom of what's going on.

8. On Monday April 24 I got a response from RS to the effect of, "We're sorry, we can't find your proof of purchase. Please send it to us. (I should emphasize here that even though you have to upload your proof of purchase, serial number, address, and email in order to get the 12 month extended warranty for a total of 3 years, they wanted me to send it to them AGAIN to prove that I in fact bought the tank) "Also, please start a separate claim on the 625 and if it's going to fail, drain it." I'm like--drain it? And put it where? And what about my $20K worth of corals, fish and equipment? Do I just go buy another tank and then you all send me a replacement in 2-3 weeks that is based on the EXACT same design and material flaws as those that failed with the tanks I have now? The same tanks that aren't even 3 years old that are blowing out? Have got to be kidding me....

And this is where I sit today. One tank blew out and one on the way to blowing out.

Like I said, as far as I'm concerned a class-action is coming because this company KNOWS of the material issues with their tanks and they KEEP sending out tanks based on the EXACT SAME design flaw that is readily known by both them and the public. As a matter of fact, RS had to upgrade the cabinets on the 600 and 700 series tanks with that little cabinet brace, had several tank failures across their larger tank lines, and then came out with Reefer G2's and the far superior tank bracing--even some with METAL cabinets and euro bracing. But guess what? They completely discontinued the 625 and 700 series tanks all together. Coincidence? And why is it that their tanks all seem to fail right around that 2.5 to 3 year mark of the warranty period? Yet another coincidence?

I'm sorry and I know I blew your thread up, but I am beyond ticked. Like I said a class action is coming, so if any of you would be interested in pursuing one with me, let me know. I'm in CA where we have some pretty stringent consumer laws pertaining to companies that sell faulty and similarly dangerous equipment. Could a person be maimed or killed by a 165- gallon glass aquarium made with faulty materials, means, and methods blowing out while said person tried to perform the simple task of looking at their fish and coral. I would venture to say yes......

Anyway, you all can follow along on my journey with these tanks on my youtube channel here:

Just followed your YouTube that’s awful what you had to go through good thing you were there

 

[paulgriffin971]

Just followed your YouTube that’s awful what you had to go through good thing you were there

Yeah no kidding. And no amount of leak protection is going to solve the issues. The entire tanks are failing, so you can jsut flip off equipment like if a skimmer overflowe, powerhead gave out, or heater went.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Wow, sad to see you going thru all of that Paul.

 

[Sanya]

I have a Red Sea Max E 170 5 years now no issue but now I am worried. What should you look for in seam failures?

It started for me with a small spot in the seam, and it was like that for 2-3 years, then half a year ago I noticed water inside the seam. The most interesting thing is that the leak occurred one foot to the right of this place.

 

[paulgriffin971]

I have a Red Sea Max E 170 5 years now no issue but now I am worried. What should you look for in seam failures?

There could be several things, and I'm just a normal consumer like everyone else, but as a start I would look for any discoloration along the seams. Anywhere the sealant is darker or lighter is where it will likely be failing----until the water starts spraying out. A good picture of what I see on my two failed tanks is like the below. Where my fingers are pointing show an obvious change in color of the sealant behind the front glass panel. You can tell that the discoloration is on the bottom of the seam not the top. And that is EXACTLY where these tanks are failing. Just to the right of front-center. When my 250 blew, it sucked sand between the glass panels. You could look for something like sand between the seams as well.

In reading some of the earlier posts, I equate the issue like any manufacturer would set expectations for things like recalls, warranty claims, supplier contract defaults, etc. There is something called a reasonable expectation of failure. That being, a certain percentage of failures for every portion of units produced. An estimate might be something like 2.5 tank failures for every 100 produced. When the 2.5 failures turn into something like 5 or 6 for every 100 produced, the manufacturer would normally halt production, send in their QA teams and customer contact representatives, and figure out what is going on. If something was found like a flawed cabinet design, faulty adhesive, workmanship issue, a problem with a materials supplier, etc, changes would be incorporated into the manufacturing process, or the manufacturing process halted altogether. Normally, manufactures don't jsut keep selling faulty product until something is figured out. That's how HUGE lawsuits happen. But we're pretty much at that point now with RS.

Also, just because a company has a warranty, doesn't exempt it from malfeasance during design, manufacturing, or procurement of raw materials, or from being held strictly accountable for supplying or selling a product known to cause or potentially cause unreasonable risks or injury to the public. Especially in the US. That's where the Consumer Product Safety Commission comes in to play. Pretty sure any engineer can tell you that a 200 or 300 gallon glass aquarium with 2,502 imperial pounds of saltwater behind it being blown out due to known design, materials, and manufacturing flaws is a substantial risk of injury to a consumer. And we all know they have known about the issues on their larger tanks for a while now.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Consumer Product Safety Commission

Clown show run by a political appointee. Spent a day there 25 years ago as part of a safety science major field trip. Jaw dropping experience and not in a good way. Yes, some good with the bad, but a lot of activism driven nonsense.