Red to Green Color Change in Walt Disney, Orange Passion

[Dana Riddle]

I got an interesting private message from a hobbyist who observed color shifts (red to green) in Walt Disney and Orange Passion corals.
We're dealing with multiple questions here.
First, some Acropora specimens (A. millepora) have a protein that changes from red to green when exposed to strong light peaking at 488nm. It is not known if this change is reversible. So, it could be related to lighting. There is the possibility that there are two proteins present - one red and one green, and environmental changes could favor the expression of the green protein over the red one.
Interestingly, I've had private discussions with coral farmers who have manipulated color (greening) through addition of potassium. In this case, the hobbyist is adding potassium nitrate as a nitrogen source. Potassium concentrations are unknown.
Another possibility - magnesium concentrations are elevated due to the sea salt brand used.
Just throwing this out for your perusal. Any comments appreciated.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Following along. I'd like to know more as I just received a WD acro about 2 weeks ago, and it's starting to encrust and grow. It's currently under a 20k 250 watt metal halide and 4 Ati Blue+ t5's

 

[BigJim]

I had an almost year long SPS issue that wiped out most of my acros. My best guess is that it was either a bacterial infection or my DIY screen top was leaching something into my tank. I say that because frequent use of a diverse number of bacterial additives and removing the screen top seemed to turn things around. My WD survived the ordeal but was completely green. It is now regaining its pink and purple coloration as well as the gold polyps. It may just be a reaction to stress or something bacterial. I am no scientist, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

In my greening experiments, it was resolved by lowering the exposure to the blue wavelengths, and the normal colors returned.

The corals in my case were , tricolor vileda , a white skinned with lavender , and a yellow with pinks.

All greening was fluro green.

 

[CoralNerd]

Does this hobbiest think potassium nitrate turned the corals green?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Does this hobbiest think potassium nitrate turned the corals green?

I was once told by a successful commercial coral farmer that potassium could cause an increase in green fluorescence. As far as the current situation goes, we don't know the K concentrations yet (he's ordered a K kit, I think) so it's speculative at this point.

 

[ikolbaba06]

I noticed green fluorescence in my acros. I’m assuming Acropora millepora, A. Efflorescens, I think A. Lattistella x2 and A. Hyacinthus( red planet) with blue heavy spectrum from kessil ap700 at lower par ranges. Once I increased par, colors somewhat came back and growth resumed as normal. I can still see partially shaded green branches on my A. Millepora but new growth is pink/red.

 

[CwStrife]

I was once told by a successful commercial coral farmer that potassium could cause an increase in green fluorescence. As far as the current situation goes, we don't know the K concentrations yet (he's ordered a K kit, I think) so it's speculative at this point.

Hey guys,

Yes I have ordered a Potassium kit and an ICP test to for sure know what the numbers are.

I am the one with the problem. I've just found the post, thank you Dana for going and doing this...

I will post some before and after pictures. I cannot contribute it to any one thing specifically. I use Fritz RPM salt so my Magnesium by default is rather high as their mix has high values for some reason. Both my kits read upwards of 1500+ppm on fresh mixes. As for Potassium, the reason Dana had been led to that is because I had been dosing KNO3 quite heavily for some time because my corals were suffering from a 0 nitrate issue. I've since added several dozen fish so that problem has been remedied, the tank holds at roughly 4ppm no3 now with phos at .05 last check with a Hanna.

I've literally had a beautiful Orange Passion turn to a full on Green Passion at this point lol. I will post pics later tonight when I can go through my photos real fast.

 

[CwStrife]

Here is the Orange Passion when I had first got it.

Here it is roughly 2 months later. The PAR where the frags sit are roughly 250, i've recently increased the output.

Walt Disney as well is rather green

Here is the light layout. I run the following at max:

Channel 1 - 100%
Channel 2 - 70%
Channel 3 - 80%
Channel 4 - 15%

Everything else has great color so i'm at a bit of a loss as to what would be causing this.... If anyone has any ideas please let me know, i'm willing to give things a try if anyone has any suggestions.

 

[CwStrife]

A small group of frags connected to the same system. On the right is a WD, the center purple one is a WWC Category 5 (it should be a light pink from what i'm told) but it's a darker purple that is very vibrant with green rims... i'm cool with that color shift though! And then behind it the brownish one is another one that also lost its color and used to be a PC Rainbow which I have a picture of below as well. In the very back is some Green Mille and then some purple stylo in the front on the left, those both look as they should if you ask me...

You'll notice the PC Rainbow here looks nothing like it does above. It's mostly an odd brown above. These frags in this tank are at roughly 350 PAR compared to the 250 that the main pieces are under, same results though it seems. I have a few more frags under 400+ PAR but they still look the same and only have been there a short time.

Everything else including monti's and LPS, zoas, it all seems fine, just this SPS that is an issue. They all did suffer through a 0 nitrate and 0 phos period for some time and then endured the heavy KNO3 dosing. I was dosing roughly 75ml a day of KNO3 for a period of time just to keep the system reading 1ppm nitrate, otherwise it would drop right to 0. The entire system is roughly 350 gallons or so.

 

[Big E]

I got an interesting private message from a hobbyist who observed color shifts (red to green) in Walt Disney and Orange Passion corals.
We're dealing with multiple questions here.
First, some Acropora specimens (A. millepora) have a protein that changes from red to green when exposed to strong light peaking at 488nm. It is not known if this change is reversible. So, it could be related to lighting. There is the possibility that there are two proteins present - one red and one green, and environmental changes could favor the expression of the green protein over the red one.
Interestingly, I've had private discussions with coral farmers who have manipulated color (greening) through addition of potassium. In this case, the hobbyist is adding potassium nitrate as a nitrogen source. Potassium concentrations are unknown.
Another possibility - magnesium concentrations are elevated due to the sea salt brand used.
Just throwing this out for your perusal. Any comments appreciated.

Not sure if you were relating millepora protein changes with WD and OP corals, but they are tenuis, not millis.

At any rate, from my observation/experiences going mostly green with any acro is from too much blue lighting or not enough par. I consider a coral going green as just a form of browning. I define brown outs as losing their normal coloration.

I've seen corals go green before they actually go brown as well and vice a versa.

I believe this is mainly from lighting if nutrients are in the common range most tanks are kept at.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I agree with bigE. More so I think the nutrient change is also making the corals show more green. Kind of a loose topic though.

I don't think potassium changes any colors on coral unless it's very low. I don't think using the potassium nitrate will raise it much anyways but am curious as to the number you get. There was a write up years ago saying potassium is for better blue colors or something, I haven't noticed that either, but people preached it for years and years after the write up.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Also taking pictures of these green color changes with blue light and color filters is kind of, I don't know how to say it, not real to life? These florecent green pigments only become very visible under these conditions, and I don't view my tank through a filter. Can we get the colors to change using daylight bulbs and or no filters? That's what I would be interested in.

 

[CwStrife]

Also taking pictures of these green color changes with blue light and color filters is kind of, I don't know how to say it, not real to life? These florecent green pigments only become very visible under these conditions, and I don't view my tank through a filter. Can we get the colors to change using daylight bulbs and or no filters? That's what I would be interested in.

I run nothing but blues primarily if you look at the LED layout.

The color respresentation is accurate though and the crazy colors of the category 5 are all present as well without a filter.

What you see in the pic is truly what is there

 

[Graffiti Spot]

What about if you move the coral to a tank with different lighting that's more natural?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Not sure if you were relating millepora protein changes with WD and OP corals, but they are tenuis, not millis.

At any rate, from my observation/experiences going mostly green with any acro is from too much blue lighting or not enough par. I consider a coral going green as just a form of browning. I define brown outs as losing their normal coloration.

I've seen corals go green before they actually go brown as well and vice a versa.

I believe this is mainly from lighting if nutrients are in the common range most tanks are kept at.

Thanks for the reply! Interesting. All Acropora fluorescent proteins are Clade C2 and therefore closely related. Unfortunately, r

In my greening experiments, it was resolved by lowering the exposure to the blue wavelengths, and the normal colors returned.

The corals in my case were , tricolor vileda , a white skinned with lavender , and a yellow with pinks.

All greening was fluro green.

OK! The switch is reversible. Good to know.
esearch on the subject has pretty much dried up after the rush to patent natural proteins for used in biotechnology was over.

 

[jda]

Are these colors due to illumination, or actual rendered color. Did the hobbyist offer any photos? (nevermind... saw them now)

While I find the question fascinating, Walt Disney is probably not a great specimen since 1). it is really a brown and green coral at heart and 2). people who have it just "black light" since it does not look all that great under wider spectrum. I know that you are not asking for anything more than anecdotes, but most everything every offered on Walt Disney has been all over the place for answers.

Orange Passion is more straight forward, IMO.

I would look towards the change in lighting spectrum from the prior owner to now. Adam at Battlecorals has corals that look great when people get them and then they change color after a few months in the new home - this is very likely because he uses a lot of daylight at his shop and this spectrum is not used by everybody so the color changes over time. Do you know the spectrum and type of light that these came from? If they came from daylight, or even 10k bulbs, then it is reasonable to think that if you are not providing as much of this, that the actual color would change. Remember that daylight renders the best colors, but it not great at illuminating all of them... whereas more blue is good at illumination but not great all alone for rendering... this is why corals grown under the daylight look great if you take them right over and put them under some reefbrites. The diode layout that was posted does not have much daylight.

 

[CwStrife]

Are these colors due to illumination, or actual rendered color. Did the hobbyist offer any photos? (nevermind... saw them now)

While I find the question fascinating, Walt Disney is probably not a great specimen since 1). it is really a brown and green coral at heart and 2). people who have it just "black light" since it does not look all that great under wider spectrum. I know that you are not asking for anything more than anecdotes, but most everything every offered on Walt Disney has been all over the place for answers.

Orange Passion is more straight forward, IMO.

I would look towards the change in lighting spectrum from the prior owner to now. Adam at Battlecorals has corals that look great when people get them and then they change color after a few months in the new home - this is very likely because he uses a lot of daylight at his shop and this spectrum is not used by everybody so the color changes over time. Do you know the spectrum and type of light that these came from? If they came from daylight, or even 10k bulbs, then it is reasonable to think that if you are not providing as much of this, that the actual color would change. Remember that daylight renders the best colors, but it not great at illuminating all of them... whereas more blue is good at illumination but not great all alone for rendering... this is why corals grown under the daylight look great if you take them right over and put them under some reefbrites. The diode layout that was posted does not have much daylight.

Yes the layout does not use much white.

The Orange Passion came from a T5/Hydra combination I believe and the WD came from a Radion setup. The WD at the store I had bought this from are all a more goldish/yellow color, mine is just outright radioactive green at this point.

 

[CwStrife]

Thanks for the reply! Interesting. All Acropora fluorescent proteins are Clade C2 and therefore closely related. Unfortunately, r

OK! The switch is reversible. Good to know.
esearch on the subject has pretty much dried up after the rush to patent natural proteins for used in biotechnology was over.

I've went ahead and got a Red Planet frag today, see if anything strange happens to it as well in due time. I cut a few pieces off the one I just got as well and put them both under the tanks with 300 and 400 PAR so i'll monitor to see what happens.

The ICP kit will be in Monday but it'll be some time before we know the results from that unfortunately.

Is there anything I can use the more closely monitor the Color Temp replication i'm getting out of my lights and such?

 

[jda]

The goldish/yellow in the Walt Disney is from the "trick lighting." The place where you go it probably had different royal blues that "pop" it differently.