Redfield ratio question

[arvind]

I have been battling algae issues. It is a two year old tank. Currently the nitrate is 11.6 and phosphate is at 0.02. I have been dosing NoPox. It brought down the Phosphate numbers but is not making a dent on nitrates. I am wondering if I should dose Phosphates to match the nitrates as per Redfield ratio and then let Nopox do its thing to bring them down. Let me know if this is a viable strategy.

 

[Timfish]

I would but I'd initially just start feeding fish more not dose phosphate. Keeping PO4 too low can negatively impact corals photobiology. This will make it harder or impossible fo rcorals to compete with algae for nutrients. Besides manual removal I would add urchins, sally lightfoot crabs and hermit crabs to help reduce algae. I'd also recommend reading Forest Rohwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle ~$10, paperback ~$17). It's an excellent intrduction to the conflicting roles algae and corals have in reef ecosystems. Here's some of the research on phosphorus if you're intereseted as well as some videos you might find informative:

An experimental mesocosm for long-term studies of reef corals | Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom | Cambridge Core

An experimental mesocosm for long-term studies of reef corals - Volume 92 Issue 4

www.cambridge.org

An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching - Nature Climate Change

Increased dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) concentrations in sea water have been linked to a reduction of the temperature threshold at which corals bleach, however, the mechanism underlying this change is not known. This phenomenon is now explained in terms of increased phosphatase activities...

www.nature.com

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the uptake of dissolved inorganic nutrients by the algal symbiont and heterotrophic feeding of the coral host. Climate change is expected to...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq

2657円まるいち 博多辛子明太子(無着色) 「博多の華」 (ギフト用) 180g Z6572海産物イクラ,タラコ,魚卵 Qoo10]　「博　まるいち　博多辛子明太子(無着色) | therichross.com

2657円まるいち 博多辛子明太子(無着色) 「博多の華」 (ギフト用) 180g Z6572海産物イクラ,タラコ,魚卵 Qoo10]　「博　まるいち　博多辛子明太子(無着色) | therichross.com

therichross.com

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Redfield ratio is not, IMO, useful for setting target concentrations for nutrients.

As to your actual levels, they seem appropriate to me, and I'd suggest other ways to deal with algae than trying to starve out algae without starving corals. That most often fails to be successful.

I see no reason to try to raise ow lower your nitrate and phosphate levels.

 

[areefer01]

The Redfield ratio is not, IMO, useful for setting target concentrations for nutrients.

As to your actual levels, they seem appropriate to me, and I'd suggest other ways to deal with algae than trying to starve out algae without starving corals. That most often fails to be successful.

I see no reason to try to raise ow lower your nitrate and phosphate levels.

This may seem like a dumb question but reading about nutrients the typical theme appears to be that nitrates are lower than phosphates. Even in this redfield ratio (just as an example). What happens if phosphates are actually higher than nitrates?

I have to dose Nitrates to keep them between 5 and 10 ppm. Phosphate on the other hand just keeps climbing. Well, seems to be holding at around .41 ppm (hanna). I've given up so just going to see how high it goes while I continue to assess the display.

With regards to the balance though and my question it always seems phosphate is lower with higher nitrates which isn't the came for me.

 

[Dan_P]

I have been battling algae issues. It is a two year old tank. Currently the nitrate is 11.6 and phosphate is at 0.02. I have been dosing NoPox. It brought down the Phosphate numbers but is not making a dent on nitrates. I am wondering if I should dose Phosphates to match the nitrates as per Redfield ratio and then let Nopox do its thing to bring them down. Let me know if this is a viable strategy.

Algae in a display tank is unlikely to be controlled by tweaking PO4 and NO3 concentrations, especially if you are keeping coral, which like algae, need these nutrients. Let the NOPOX do its thing, making sure it doesn’t deplete the nitrate and phosphate. I would use the decline in nitrate and visible bacteria growth as indications that NOPOX is “working”. This does not happen overnight. And considering your aquarium has been infested with algae for two years, be patient about deciding NOPOX does not work. You might be 6-12 months away from turning the corner.