Reef Aquariums (Rocket Science)

BrianAnthony · Jun 5, 2021

I guess that I'm a bit out of the times... I've been reading a lot of posts. Is it me, the guy who likes to keep things simple OR is reef keeping this elaborate ?

I don't know how to pronounce half the things that I see in some of these threads. I looked under some of the posts that don't have any responses to see if I could help... And dang... They are so in depth...

What I think has happend to reef keeping is the almighty Dollar. These mfg come up with product for problems I think they actually create. Whatever happend to a sump was a 20gal spare tank you had sitting around, to now a $400 acrylic bucket? And, how about that $50 8oz bottle of magic (that fixes your problem, but causes another one) when all you had to do was regular water changes?

I guess I'm simplistic. How about you?

Dcal · Jun 5, 2021

I agree that simple will always be an option but for me the deeper I dive into all the complicated setups and equipment I feel more in tune with my tank and appreciate how crazy real reefs are along with life support engineering

saltybees · Jun 5, 2021

It’s like any hobby, you can keep it simple or pimp it out. Some guys drive mini vans, some guys drive Ferraris.

WVNed · Jun 5, 2021

We have liftoff

BrianAnthony · Jun 5, 2021

WVNed said:
We have liftoff

Uhh, Houston. We have a problem. Lol

WVNed · Jun 5, 2021

Nope, No problems

2021060413445626--8366068108165991276-IMG_3660-edited-XL.jpg

ZoWhat · Jun 5, 2021

WVNed said:
Nope, No problems

"Wood Paneling Police..... pull over....."

Dkmoo · Jun 6, 2021

It shouldn't be simple, and imo I don't think as a hobby we haven't reached the kind of complexity that it requires to really become a long term hobby - most tanks don't survive past the 2 year mark.

You are trying to mimic the ocean in a very enclosed and smallspace to keep a very delicate organism not just alive but healthy and reproduce. The fact that you used "rocket science" in your post is actually very apt. Pulling a coral out of the ocean into a glass box is exactly like putting a human into space in a metal box where every life support is artificially maintained.

If someone told me to spend the rest of my life in space, not just to "stay alive" but also be happy, reproduce, and live out a meaningful live, I probably would not sign up for it if the chief engineer of this rocket likes to "keep things simple"

BrianAnthony · Jun 6, 2021

China will soon be selling an artificial sun. I wonder how many reefers will look into expensing this? #whenledlightsjustarentenuff

BrianAnthony · Jun 6, 2021

Dkmoo said:
It shouldn't be simple, and imo I don't think as a hobby we haven't reached the kind of complexity that it requires to really become a long term hobby - most tanks don't survive past the 2 year mark.

You are trying to mimic the ocean in a very enclosed and smallspace to keep a very delicate organism not just alive but healthy and reproduce. The fact that you used "rocket science" in your post is actually very apt. Pulling a coral out of the ocean into a glass box is exactly like putting a human into space in a metal box where every life support is artificially maintained.

If someone told me to spend the rest of my life in space, not just to "stay alive" but also be happy, reproduce, and live out a meaningful live, I probably would not sign up for it if the chief engineer of this rocket likes to "keep things simple"

You are missing my point. The acronym K.i.s.s. comes to mind. There are things that are and should be complex. However, a lot of products in this hobby are expensive and unnecessary. They want you to believe that the only way to be successful is to purchase their product. Why do aquariums fail in 2 yrs? It's because people get lazy or tired of dealing with the upkeep. Why??? They did not k.i.s.s.

Dkmoo · Jun 6, 2021

BrianAnthony said:
You are missing my point. The acronym K.i.s.s. comes to mind. There are things that are and should be complex. However, a lot of products in this hobby are expensive and unnecessary. They want you to believe that the only way to be successful is to purchase their product. Why do aquariums fail in 2 yrs? It's because people get lazy or tired of dealing with the upkeep. Why??? They did not k.i.s.s.

You are also missing my point. Complexity isn't about buying new product without understanding what it does.. im sure all those products has a right use and wrong use. Its when people don't understand the science and misuse the product is when their tanks fail. So the "complexity" here is about the hobby's collective knowledge.. itss about understanding the the biology, need and habitat of corals as well as treatments for disease. Understanding the nutrient cycle gave us products likes skimmer and refugium, understanding the best spectrums where florescent proteins are best excited gave us the LEDs and best spectrums for coral coloration. Im sure 30 years ago a skimmer may sound like rocket science and people would just swear by "water change" is all you need, and yet now the hobby more times than not acknowledge that skimmer is helpful and at times very necessary for long term tank success. Similarly, there are still issues we cannot tackle in this hobby like ECS, AEFW, where "kiss" isn't going to solve but will take research, science, and more "complexities" and products to resolve

mindme · Jun 6, 2021

BrianAnthony said:
I guess that I'm a bit out of the times... I've been reading a lot of posts. Is it me, the guy who likes to keep things simple OR is reef keeping this elaborate ?

I don't know how to pronounce half the things that I see in some of these threads. I looked under some of the posts that don't have any responses to see if I could help... And dang... They are so in depth...

What I think has happend to reef keeping is the almighty Dollar. These mfg come up with product for problems I think they actually create. Whatever happend to a sump was a 20gal spare tank you had sitting around, to now a $400 acrylic bucket? And, how about that $50 8oz bottle of magic (that fixes your problem, but causes another one) when all you had to do was regular water changes?

I guess I'm simplistic. How about you?

Water changes are very time consuming.

Can you give an example of products for problems they created? I don't really see that.

My 180g has probably about 200g of water volume including the 50g sump that is probably half full. If I do a 20% water change, that is 40g. Twice a month, that is 80g of saltwater. Or, 80g of RODI water I have to create every month, on top of the about 30g of top off water I have to make each month.

So that's about $30 in salt, every month. And as I said it's time consuming.

My tank isn't high tech really, but I don't do water changes on it. I don't run an APEX, but I am considering it because I was the automated testing. Is that a problem they created? No, I hate having to test and this is a solution I'm considering. As it is, I have to just test manually, and many things are controlled by other controllers.

I have 2 MP40's. Those are pretty expensive. But they keep the cords out of the tank and look much nicer. And of course, they can be controlled. Do I really need that? No, but it helps randomize the flow while keeping the inside of the tank looking nicer.

I have a cheap Jabeo DC return pump.

I have Kessil lights, not cheap but they make my wife happy with the shimmer. Plus I like the minimal look they provide, goes well with my NSA.

I have a skimmer, filter socks, and a refugium that uses a kessil grow light. These keep the nutrients down, so I don't have to change the water.

I have a ph probe, because I hate testing. I like being able to just look at the meter and see what it is. Apex logging would be nice, but also a luxury.

Then there is my inkbird controller for heaters. That thing is a must.

And then there is my cheap jabeo dosing pump. I suppose I could do this manually, but doing it multiple times a day to keep the PH from changing too much and waking up in the middle of the night to do it isn't them creating a problem, it's a solution.

So I don't know. My tank has a good bit of tech on it, but I feel like none of it is a waste or fixing a problem the producer created.

WVNed · Jun 6, 2021

zoa what said:
"Wood Paneling Police..... pull over....."

Came with the house

I did put up the T-11 siding in the fish room though.

In all seriousness how simple or complex you make your system is a personal choice. There are people that seem to like colored pipes and doodads more than their fish. It's their tank.

I built whats in my fish room myself and understand what it does. It's not complex to me.
I didnt pay $400 for all 5 stock tanks used to build it.

One interesting point
NoPox for example
500 ml $18.99
5000ml 109.99
Buying more is sometimes a lot cheaper if you are going to use it.

KStatefan · Jun 6, 2021

It is your choice what you want to purchase for your hobby.

mdb_talon · Jun 6, 2021

BrianAnthony said:
Is it me, the guy who likes to keep things simple OR is reef keeping this elaborate ?

Why does it have to be an "or" question? Why is it not ok that you like to keep things as simple as possible while others prefer a more involved and "complex" approach? Either approach can be perfectly valid.

fish farmer · Jun 6, 2021

Dkmoo said:
You are also missing my point. Complexity isn't about buying new product without understanding what it does.. im sure all those products has a right use and wrong use. Its when people don't understand the science and misuse the product is when their tanks fail. So the "complexity" here is about the hobby's collective knowledge.. itss about understanding the the biology, need and habitat of corals as well as treatments for disease. Understanding the nutrient cycle gave us products likes skimmer and refugium, understanding the best spectrums where florescent proteins are best excited gave us the LEDs and best spectrums for coral coloration. Im sure 30 years ago a skimmer may sound like rocket science and people would just swear by "water change" is all you need, and yet now the hobby more times than not acknowledge that skimmer is helpful and at times very necessary for long term tank success. Similarly, there are still issues we cannot tackle in this hobby like ECS, AEFW, where "kiss" isn't going to solve but will take research, science, and more "complexities" and products to resolve

I noted the 30 years ago comment

.

I have a copy of "Advanced Reef Keeping" from Albert Thiel from 1989. There were plenty of bells and whistles described in that book, most of the stuff was made in Europe and wasn't readily available in the US.

I've always had smaller tanks under 65 gallons, all had some sort of ATO, kalk delivery system, light controller (timer), flow generators (power heads) and a sump for the skimmer, increased volume, gear storage.

It is really nice to see product now than what was available 25 years ago.

I probably have more gear than some do for a 29 gallon, ATO, Kalk with dosing pump, temp controller with heater, sump, skimmer, refuge with chaeto, in tank circulation pumps, dimmable LED/T-5 combo with photoperiod control (light timers).

Most of it is still somewhat DIY....I did buy a baffle kit for the sump on Ebay.

I still do water changes....when I remember

.

My tank is many years old, but I have mostly softies and LPS.