Reef Parameters - I need some help understanding

Nate Chalk · Oct 1, 2021

Trying to understand why corals aren't thriving, rather barely surviving.

I've been doing alot of research on the forums and there's a lot of contradicting evidence and view points. My tank is roughly a couple of months set up, but comes from a 8-9 month Fish only system. With some very hardy corals that I still have with me.

I purchased some torch corals a month or so ago, but they have detracted and split a few times, but do not look like others on the forums or when i got them.

My calcium stays within 430-450, and temps stay within 79-80 degress, salinity stays 1.025-1.026. Here are my numbers over the past couple of days. My understanding is i need to slowly raise nitrates and lower my phosphates. I've purchased some chemicals to aid in getting the numbers right, as GFO is not working in conjunction with microbacter as i understand the bacteria feeds on nitrate moreso than phos.

Would love someone with experience to help me get this under control, i battled cyano, hair algae and im just getting over the hair algae. my plan is to let it run course, perhaps dosing nitrate and chemically absorbing phos until i hit 5ppm Nitrate and 0.03 phos (or close not planning to chase)

I hope the torches pull through they are partially the reason i got into the hobby. Clown + 2 tangs are doing well!

Thank you,
Nate

Mrtakeoff53 · Oct 1, 2021

I struggled with PO4 and NO3 for a long time. I saw a lot of ups and downs in my coral health as these numbers fluctuated. I had the most success keeping my numbers in the following ranges

Alk: 7.5-8.5 but this varies from tank to tank
Cal:420-450
Mg:1250-1350 you didn’t list yours but Mg is one you need to keep stable too

PO4: 0.05-0.12. At 0.03, my tank struggled. The nutrients were too low. There was not enough ‘food’ for the coral to grow.

NO3: 5-20. IMO, your nitrates are WAY too low. How do you even test for NO3 at that low level? My test kit showed 0, 5, 10, 25, 50 and 100.

Remember, that in addition to building a calcium skeleton, you also need to feed the algae within the coral that does the photosynthesis. That requires the same food as your lawn, PO4, NO3! Without these two food sources in balance, your coral will struggle. SPS are more sensitive to high levels of PO4 and NO3. If you are after success with your torches, get those NO3 levels up and I recommend not to shoot for 0.03 PO4. Shoot for 0.06-0.10. See how your tank does there and adjust as required. Pics are so what you can see I was able to achieve with those levels.

Nate Chalk · Oct 1, 2021

I use ultra low range Hannah checkers

neo nitrate on the way from brs

Mrtakeoff53 · Oct 1, 2021

You trying to run a ULNS tank? If not, that test kit might be overkill, haha!

Lavey29 · Oct 1, 2021

Agree with the above post, I had tank difficulties until I got the nitrate and phosphate numbers up where they need to be then everything seemed much better balanced. You will probably find you need to double dose neo nitro for a week or two before you see some rising number. Same with the neo phos, I was double dosing that also to get to .1. Another thing I did was remove all chemical media except a bag of carbon in the sump. I'm trying to stay as Natura as possible now and the tank is really responding.

Nate Chalk · Oct 2, 2021

After a ~25% water change i was able to reduce phos to 0.10ppm , neo nitrate is on the way. Corals seem "fluffier" and slightly better extension with phos being lowered. I think the 0 nitrate is not treating them well still but high phos was really bad.

Nate Chalk · Oct 2, 2021

parameter data

i have been testing calcium because that stays constant, PH i do not test either

Gtinnel · Oct 2, 2021

Other than raising your nitrate to around 5 or so your parameters look good to me. You should hold off on doing anything to lower your phosphates IMO. Your phosphate may be a little high but not by much and generally if your nitrates are 0 when you raise them up it will lower phosphates. Algea/bacteria in the tank use both phosphate and nitrate at the same time, so when one goes to zero the other stops getting consumed. Once you dose the one that was at 0 they both start being used again and it will lower them both.
I'm not sure what you do to maintain alkalinity but a 1dKh swing in one day is a little more than I would like to see in my tank.

Nate Chalk · Oct 2, 2021

Gtinnel said:
Other than raising your nitrate to around 5 or so your parameters look good to me. You should hold off on doing anything to lower your phosphates IMO. Your phosphate may be a little high but not by much and generally if your nitrates are 0 when you raise them up it will lower phosphates. Algea/bacteria in the tank use both phosphate and nitrate at the same time, so when one goes to zero the other stops getting consumed. Once you dose the one that was at 0 they both start being used again and it will lower them both.
I'm not sure what you do to maintain alkalinity but a 1dKh swing in one day is a little more than I would like to see in my tank.

TY! I did see this on some other threads, and it makes sense. Trying to get more information out there about parameters. so hopefully others dont have the same issues

Lavey29 · Oct 2, 2021

Nate Chalk said:
After a ~25% water change i was able to reduce phos to 0.10ppm , neo nitrate is on the way. Corals seem "fluffier" and slightly better extension with phos being lowered. I think the 0 nitrate is not treating them well still but high phos was really bad.

.1 is not high for phos but want to try and keep it slightly under. It took me about 10 days of double dosing nitrate to get to 7.5 and I have 5 fish also fed 3x per day. I manage my phos number by only coral feeding AB plus twice a week now.

little_sardines · Oct 2, 2021

There's also a relationship between how strong your light is and how much nutrients you need to keep the corals from bleaching or browning out. Generally higher nutrients for more light to prevent bleaching and lower nutrients for less light to prevent browning out. Over time you kinda get a feel for what your tank needs by watching the color shifts as your parameters change if your light is a constant.

Nate Chalk · Oct 2, 2021

Here are the torches, the never extend like when I got them, but haven’t fully receded. I started nitrates today.

Under Kessil tuna blue preset 8 inches above tank maybe 8 inches under water. Par estimate with Lux meter was 250 on the wwc settings, now 150 range raising.

I hope the nitrates help the torches recover. Will retest tomorrow am. Anyone think they will recover?

another question I have is what will raise nitrates naturally vs dosing ?

*not adding phosphates

Lavey29 · Oct 2, 2021

Light par seems ok, are you getting some nice back and forth flow there? I found that once I got my phosphate and nitrate numbers good the whole tank responded. Nitrate is a biproduct of fish waste and food waste in the tank typically. If you have enough fish and feed regularly you should have sufficient nitrate unless you find your corals are using it up faster then it is created. Water changes reduce nitrate also so some people go longer in between water changes to elevate their nitrates which they seem to refer to as letting the tank get dirty. I see positives and negatives to this approach but each tank is different and reacts somewhat differently depending on your livestock and the tank maturity.

Nate Chalk · Oct 2, 2021

Lavey29 said:
Light par seems ok, are you getting some nice back and forth flow there? I found that once I got my phosphate and nitrate numbers good the whole tank responded. Nitrate is a biproduct of fish waste and food waste in the tank typically. If you have enough fish and feed regularly you should have sufficient nitrate unless you find your corals are using it up faster then it is created. Water changes reduce nitrate also so some people go longer in between water changes to elevate their nitrates which they seem to refer to as letting the tank get dirty. I see positives and negatives to this approach but each tank is different and reacts somewhat differently depending on your livestock and the tank maturity.

Yeah the tank is 6ft long 180 gallons and I have 2x gyre at each end on 100% burst random flow 2 seconds each

Lavey29 · Oct 2, 2021

Nate Chalk said:
Yeah the tank is 6ft long 180 gallons and I have 2x gyre at each end on 100% burst random flow 2 seconds each

Then maybe its just a matter of getting your parameters in line. I'm new but have learned corals can be suffering on the inside when our water numbers are off and you won't notice anything until you wake up one day and they are all receded then you immediately start looking for the cause but the damage has been done over weeks or months so it may take time for them to revive back. My tank got hit with BJD and I lost 6 beautiful corals but learned a valuable lesson about water parameters and how struggling corals are susceptible to disease. Now that my numbers are good the whole tank is vibrant now and coraline has finally started.

Nate Chalk · Oct 2, 2021

Lavey29 said:
Then maybe its just a matter of getting your parameters in line. I'm new but have learned corals can be suffering on the inside when our water numbers are off and you won't notice anything until you wake up one day and they are all receded then you immediately start looking for the cause but the damage has been done over weeks or months so it may take time for them to revive back. My tank got hit with BJD and I lost 6 beautiful corals but learned a valuable lesson about water parameters and how struggling corals are susceptible to disease. Now that my numbers are good the whole tank is vibrant now and coraline has finally started.

That’s what I think is happening, coralline is growing green nepthea is rocking. But torches are still showing a delayed response. Nitrates will go up I hope with treatment. I do expect to lose them but will fight to not.