Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide
- Thread starter brandon429
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
Thank you for stopping in!
That way works but it's archaic, that's how we started years ago but things have modified into this basic summary of what we now do:
Nearly anything green/algae will die with any form of peroxide dosing. That's how it took off so fast 8 years ago, we found out it does not kill nor alter filtration bacteria, targets will die, and whoosh peroxide use took off
The next challenge tended to be growback...since many forms of GHA and other algae are anchored into the rock the full dipping was only killing the surface portion, regrowth came back from the bottom in some tests. Additionally, algae and other invasions tend to be a function of cloudy detritus stored in the system and we figured what good is treating a symptom without addressing the cause, so now we advocate these added steps-
Test rock is number one. Take out a couple rocks with target in tow, and on one of them use a knife to roughly scrape dislodge the algae from its base anchor, the knife rids the algae. Peroxide is applied out of tank, to the scraped clean zone as a first test. Put rock back among untreated rocks
Test 2 you can dip it, or just pour peroxide across it, put back to observe among untreated
After a few tests we would choose the one that modeled best to apply to your whole tank, after its de clouded which usually means replacing or deep cleaning the tanks sandbed into a cloudless state of no detritus. Those combined efforts are the new powerful way. We wanted something other than guessing at what might work, taking hours treating the tank, then getting growback. Take and post pics if you test rock anything
B
That way works but it's archaic, that's how we started years ago but things have modified into this basic summary of what we now do:
Nearly anything green/algae will die with any form of peroxide dosing. That's how it took off so fast 8 years ago, we found out it does not kill nor alter filtration bacteria, targets will die, and whoosh peroxide use took off
The next challenge tended to be growback...since many forms of GHA and other algae are anchored into the rock the full dipping was only killing the surface portion, regrowth came back from the bottom in some tests. Additionally, algae and other invasions tend to be a function of cloudy detritus stored in the system and we figured what good is treating a symptom without addressing the cause, so now we advocate these added steps-
Test rock is number one. Take out a couple rocks with target in tow, and on one of them use a knife to roughly scrape dislodge the algae from its base anchor, the knife rids the algae. Peroxide is applied out of tank, to the scraped clean zone as a first test. Put rock back among untreated rocks
Test 2 you can dip it, or just pour peroxide across it, put back to observe among untreated
After a few tests we would choose the one that modeled best to apply to your whole tank, after its de clouded which usually means replacing or deep cleaning the tanks sandbed into a cloudless state of no detritus. Those combined efforts are the new powerful way. We wanted something other than guessing at what might work, taking hours treating the tank, then getting growback. Take and post pics if you test rock anything
B
DirtMcGurt
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2018
- Messages
- 718
- Reaction score
- 361
I see. Well, I removed a couple rocks last night and basically did an underwater treatment outside the tank. Since I didn't know if pure hydrogen peroxide was being used as a bath. I tried to read as much of this thread as I could but I'm an idiot and that much info hurts my backwoods brain. I can try your method after work today.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
Twenty pages i wouldn't go through either we shoot for the summary :) the number one thing we are trying to do is pre model the guess before upscaling, and we want to avoid contacting nontarget areas. One mil of 3% peroxide per ten gallons of water is safe for most organisms except for lysmata cleaner shrimp and cousins, if dipping must be tried or if the tank is giant and can't be taken apart, I know of no corals or fish other than currently sick ones that would be affected by peroxide experiments. Rock fauna like pods and worms can die, but they're small potatoes compared to saving an entire tank, those that don't die reproduce. Spot testing externally while learning how your specific invader manifests also helps to lessen peroxide applied to micro benthic animals in the good portions of the rock.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
how would you rate clouding in your system
If you reach in and grab a rock and swish it in the tank does a huge cloud come off
How about the sandbed, how hard is it to access so you can clean it
If you reach in and grab a rock and swish it in the tank does a huge cloud come off
How about the sandbed, how hard is it to access so you can clean it
DirtMcGurt
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2018
- Messages
- 718
- Reaction score
- 361
I get moderate clouding if I start hitting the rocks with a Turkey baster. I can get to about 50% of my sand bed, which has been vacuumed about twice a month since my tank got ugly af. I can post some pics if it helps.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
Yes pls do, it is truly the whole complete fix that works best, the rasping and testing and peroxide is only a segment. De clouding heads off next years cyano invasions.
Though this is equally big thread, it's all sand work. page 12 on that's good material and skip cycle bed work, we want to do it all at once ideally. Partial work is more nutrient upwelling events, algae feed
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/page-12
Between that thread and this thread is a certain method/approach that definitely results in a clean compliant reef, they're work heavy threads. I haven't asked to see a nitrate or phosphate test reading in a decade, that doesn't matter. Nor does identifying the invader matter, what matters is demonstrable action.
Though this is equally big thread, it's all sand work. page 12 on that's good material and skip cycle bed work, we want to do it all at once ideally. Partial work is more nutrient upwelling events, algae feed
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/page-12
Between that thread and this thread is a certain method/approach that definitely results in a clean compliant reef, they're work heavy threads. I haven't asked to see a nitrate or phosphate test reading in a decade, that doesn't matter. Nor does identifying the invader matter, what matters is demonstrable action.
DirtMcGurt
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2018
- Messages
- 718
- Reaction score
- 361
These are pics of the hideous monster that I like to call "my reef tank". I actually pulled all the rocks, except the big ones on the bottom, and scrubbed them all about 2 weeks ago. That 2 weeks of growth... also vacuumed the sand and dipped (coral dip) most frags. Now on just watching everything die slowly. Love this hobby.
C-Reefer
Well-Known Member
Here's a small challenge but it's stubborn.
20 long. Kept clean, passes drop test no problem, sandbed is sparkling and good CUC. I don't have much algae except for this stuff and it won't go away. It's very stiff and I can't scrub it off the rocks very well. I also have a cualerpa invasion that I can't get rid of and I was wondering if this could help get rid of it. I do hand guide my rocks but this stuff is stubborn.im good to do hands on work but I'm not sure what to do with peroxide when I have corals on the rock and rocks aren't removrable.
20 long. Kept clean, passes drop test no problem, sandbed is sparkling and good CUC. I don't have much algae except for this stuff and it won't go away. It's very stiff and I can't scrub it off the rocks very well. I also have a cualerpa invasion that I can't get rid of and I was wondering if this could help get rid of it. I do hand guide my rocks but this stuff is stubborn.im good to do hands on work but I'm not sure what to do with peroxide when I have corals on the rock and rocks aren't removrable.
DirtMcGurt
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2018
- Messages
- 718
- Reaction score
- 361
24 hours after doing a test run of 2 rocks (one with a dead/dying goni frag). This was an underwater treatment outside of the tank. They both sat in fresh saltwater, were sprayed with the 3% h2o2, and soaked 20 mins. They weren't soaked in straight up h2o2. I really have no clue what I'm doing but thought I'd share.
stefanm
Active Member
The top picture, I had sprayed the rock with 3% h.p left for 2-3 minutes, rinsed with tank water and returned to the tank, I had rasped the rock a fair bit until I ran out of patience, it took around a week for the algae to fully white out. A small piece of gsp had started encrusting the rock, I guess it was struggling with the amount of algae, that piece now has a couple of polyps showing, the frag plug that has the main gsp colony was placed on the previously treated test rock, already encrusting and much happier, also a feather duster survived. No grow back on the original test rock with hair algae so far, been a couple of weeks now.
The second picture, this rock was sprayed with the same 3% solution and left for 20 minutes and then soaked in tank water for 20 minutes, I did miss a patch which is unaffected. In this case the algae was fully bleached in 2-3 days, I didn't manually remove any algae from this rock.
I'm ready to do the remaining rocks, I think just spraying and leaving for a couple of minutes before rinsing and returning should be enough.
Hopefully this will be enough for the coralline to grow on the rocks.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
Team
These are great! I missed C-Reefers post above, that tank looks sharp and sent him a message to see if still up for a custom run, I wanted to dig one of his test patches out with a small sharp knife tip then burn the dig spot in peroxide externally soon after, and then single spot treat another tuft without debriding it. One test is rasp the other is just peroxide. Regarding corals on rock C Reefer let's lift out rocks and set them on the counter, in the air, and work. If airtime is concerning, grab a sprayer bottle of saltwater for coral misting.
Stefan I think those are the best featured pics of test rock work on the thread because you've presented for the first time a decent duration test. It's truly incremental assessment, this is what keepers of giant aquaria want to see, something that models unique to their tank if a big access job is going to be a waste of time (it's not, yours have responded)
what we all show is an essential reset. The rules about attacking algae strictly through parameter alterations which often results in coral stress are null. They cause hesitation and tank loss-the rule of parameter chasing is measure, adjust, wait, hope. All back seat reefing.
Of course parameter adjustments, N and P ratios, all valid science but they're preventatives not removers. My sole offer is how to access, when access is called for, to do it without pause, using skip cycle biology so that nothing dies or recycles.
Require your reef to comply, post pictures of it following the rules. I've given my reef no option to comply. next time I'll drain fifty.
I'd expect someone to have their nutrients set to what corals want, we can hand guide the rest...this is the role of parameter adjustment regarding algae invasion, it's a preemptive adjustment and never, never reactionary. Reaction to seeing algae is you with a hose and a kitchen knife and a substrate drop test :)
Because skip cycle biology allows consistent, repeatable tank access to a system we simply can cheat the system clean before we lose animal life. Seek balance over time, less use of cheats, but use cheats initially because starting over/throwing out rock should be the unacceptable condition. You are required to cheat in order to reef ethically.
(there is no need to treat my pico this way, normal 50% water changes would run it. It's done to show reliability in a system with no dilution-you've plenty of dilution)
Peroxide simply puts your plant balance back into the look you want, then we start again seeking balances that prevent the need for peroxide again, ideally. If it doesn't work and we need to cheat clean again, well can :)
I wanted to show what I think might be the harshest water change shown any time recently on this site using my own aquarium that's 12 years old
I drained my tank in the cold air for half an hour, this was extreme to demonstrate the accessibility we have for working directly against algae by means other than water dosing. Direct, targeted work. Twelve hours later after this dental cleaning from heck, the corals are open and hungry. I still have pods, works, a sponge problem actually... what does this example do to the old publications about not exposing live rock to air? It means we do not have to hesitate to prevent an invasion. Access directly any way we can, and use water tuning for *prevention* trials, not to remove algae.
I let my delicate pico reef fill up with cyano on purpose by stopping water changes for weeks, then cured it overnite *by blast cleaning the detritus, see the drain and refill middle portion** that detritus dislodge and upwelling is me restoring clean grains to the top fourth of my sandbed, it rinses clear soon after. I wipe off the walls using peroxide 35 on a paper towel
These are great! I missed C-Reefers post above, that tank looks sharp and sent him a message to see if still up for a custom run, I wanted to dig one of his test patches out with a small sharp knife tip then burn the dig spot in peroxide externally soon after, and then single spot treat another tuft without debriding it. One test is rasp the other is just peroxide. Regarding corals on rock C Reefer let's lift out rocks and set them on the counter, in the air, and work. If airtime is concerning, grab a sprayer bottle of saltwater for coral misting.
Stefan I think those are the best featured pics of test rock work on the thread because you've presented for the first time a decent duration test. It's truly incremental assessment, this is what keepers of giant aquaria want to see, something that models unique to their tank if a big access job is going to be a waste of time (it's not, yours have responded)
what we all show is an essential reset. The rules about attacking algae strictly through parameter alterations which often results in coral stress are null. They cause hesitation and tank loss-the rule of parameter chasing is measure, adjust, wait, hope. All back seat reefing.
Of course parameter adjustments, N and P ratios, all valid science but they're preventatives not removers. My sole offer is how to access, when access is called for, to do it without pause, using skip cycle biology so that nothing dies or recycles.
Require your reef to comply, post pictures of it following the rules. I've given my reef no option to comply. next time I'll drain fifty.
I'd expect someone to have their nutrients set to what corals want, we can hand guide the rest...this is the role of parameter adjustment regarding algae invasion, it's a preemptive adjustment and never, never reactionary. Reaction to seeing algae is you with a hose and a kitchen knife and a substrate drop test :)
Because skip cycle biology allows consistent, repeatable tank access to a system we simply can cheat the system clean before we lose animal life. Seek balance over time, less use of cheats, but use cheats initially because starting over/throwing out rock should be the unacceptable condition. You are required to cheat in order to reef ethically.
(there is no need to treat my pico this way, normal 50% water changes would run it. It's done to show reliability in a system with no dilution-you've plenty of dilution)
Peroxide simply puts your plant balance back into the look you want, then we start again seeking balances that prevent the need for peroxide again, ideally. If it doesn't work and we need to cheat clean again, well can :)
I wanted to show what I think might be the harshest water change shown any time recently on this site using my own aquarium that's 12 years old
I drained my tank in the cold air for half an hour, this was extreme to demonstrate the accessibility we have for working directly against algae by means other than water dosing. Direct, targeted work. Twelve hours later after this dental cleaning from heck, the corals are open and hungry. I still have pods, works, a sponge problem actually... what does this example do to the old publications about not exposing live rock to air? It means we do not have to hesitate to prevent an invasion. Access directly any way we can, and use water tuning for *prevention* trials, not to remove algae.
I let my delicate pico reef fill up with cyano on purpose by stopping water changes for weeks, then cured it overnite *by blast cleaning the detritus, see the drain and refill middle portion** that detritus dislodge and upwelling is me restoring clean grains to the top fourth of my sandbed, it rinses clear soon after. I wipe off the walls using peroxide 35 on a paper towel
Last edited:
VJV
Valuable Member
Hi Brandon, can't believe my posts were #63 and onwards and it has been three years.... particularly like #73 #75,... Absolutely love your reef bowl! as far as my GHA, after my couple of treatments 3 years ago I continue to be essentially GHA free [emoji847][emoji847]. If anyone wants to know the size of the problem I had (by the time I posted here I had been fighting GHA for almost 2 years) just jump back to posts #8 and around. Some of the pictures were so good that I have been asked the rights to use them in algae related papers.... no one ever asked me that for my coral pictures so it must been I must be much better at growing algae than corals [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]
Last edited:
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
I absolutely did not forget your resolve :) and we did have to stick at it initially to fight growback in chats yes for sure thanks tons for posting updates friend
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h2o2-overdose.512303/page-2
Largest overdose of 3% I recall seeing from any forum, track his outcomes. Very good learning details in here...filter bacteria / bulletproof.
Largest overdose of 3% I recall seeing from any forum, track his outcomes. Very good learning details in here...filter bacteria / bulletproof.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beeping-green-hair-algae.527285/page-3
Rarities from that thread summarized:
-pure resolve, willed on a set of rocks.
-no coaxing, hoping, waiting, endless nitrate and phosphate tinkering, he wanted clean and he willed that condition.
-after pic shows no way to be cloudy
-this thread is so good for others to see action and skip cycle precision work it needs to be linked to the sand rinse thread, he's a surgeon.
-clean up crew going into the clean condition tank not the invaded condition
-all animals fine, he isolated the detritus from the sensitives
-this is a rare rare rare rare rare rare full documentation of willing a tank into compliance. The tool was secondary, and could vary and still earn the same after pics. If this was 1999 and he had only a brazing torch/plumber's rig, to burn the cleaned areas, same outcome. Algae is simply not allowed here. Some growback work is expected, nobody maintains dandelion free garden with one removal, and this aquarium is accessible for future rework, yes, even if some algae pops up on lower rocks. He will not allow this tank to be invaded, and algae is natural it belongs on a reef. That his tank grew algae we didn't like is a human vanity condition lol he didn't endlessly tweak his parameters in response to algae as parameters were never the cause.
I'm shedding a digital tear, man. In a world where people consciously fight to keep their invader, after posting they do not want to be invaded, they fight to keep the mud waste in place, you did not
What you posted is the most responsible way to reef and care for animals I've seen in a long time.
Rarities from that thread summarized:
-pure resolve, willed on a set of rocks.
-no coaxing, hoping, waiting, endless nitrate and phosphate tinkering, he wanted clean and he willed that condition.
-after pic shows no way to be cloudy
-this thread is so good for others to see action and skip cycle precision work it needs to be linked to the sand rinse thread, he's a surgeon.
-clean up crew going into the clean condition tank not the invaded condition
-all animals fine, he isolated the detritus from the sensitives
-this is a rare rare rare rare rare rare full documentation of willing a tank into compliance. The tool was secondary, and could vary and still earn the same after pics. If this was 1999 and he had only a brazing torch/plumber's rig, to burn the cleaned areas, same outcome. Algae is simply not allowed here. Some growback work is expected, nobody maintains dandelion free garden with one removal, and this aquarium is accessible for future rework, yes, even if some algae pops up on lower rocks. He will not allow this tank to be invaded, and algae is natural it belongs on a reef. That his tank grew algae we didn't like is a human vanity condition lol he didn't endlessly tweak his parameters in response to algae as parameters were never the cause.
I'm shedding a digital tear, man. In a world where people consciously fight to keep their invader, after posting they do not want to be invaded, they fight to keep the mud waste in place, you did not
What you posted is the most responsible way to reef and care for animals I've seen in a long time.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,156
- Reaction score
- 543
Ok, here we go... took FOREVER to read through all of these posts, and really, I am still not super clear on how to do this...
I am going to remove two rocks. Douse one with 3%, and scrape the other and douse it as well.
My understanding is in three days I will have some improvement?
Not SUPER confident on taking my glued rocks apart, and if this works, I am going to have to lure my anemone off of one rock...
I didn’t think even corals could stay out of the water 20 mins... but one thread said they sprayed the rock and left it...
Wish me luck! More pictures in three days....
#allmymoneygoestocorals- lol ( my husband might just kill me...)
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
agreed, both rocks are going to show a response to the dual treatment options, we're tracking which ones stay clean after. The rasped one represents the most work that may be required; the doused one alone represents just an easy dribbling of peroxide over the other areas.
Both methods will work, but, you are likely to have to retreat the system if the dousing one shows heavy or quick growback. pre modeling allows us to know/predict a little bit about the future course of the invasion.
*if you don't want to unglue, simply lower the tank water level a bit to expose two test areas. spray with bottled saltwater any exposed corals during the test for extra safety. Peroxide as a mild runoff isn't devastating in a tank, but lysmata cleaner shrimps and cousins like blood cleaners sure can. that's about the only risk with mild runoff into the tank, if any.
Both methods will work, but, you are likely to have to retreat the system if the dousing one shows heavy or quick growback. pre modeling allows us to know/predict a little bit about the future course of the invasion.
*if you don't want to unglue, simply lower the tank water level a bit to expose two test areas. spray with bottled saltwater any exposed corals during the test for extra safety. Peroxide as a mild runoff isn't devastating in a tank, but lysmata cleaner shrimps and cousins like blood cleaners sure can. that's about the only risk with mild runoff into the tank, if any.
Last edited:
Ryengoth
I wish I was in St John USVI
I did spot treating on my wall reef with 3% and glycerine. I did not remove the rocks at all. The turbo snails loved the dying algae more than the active stuff so as I treated a spot I'd physically relocate them and them mow the area.
Similar threads
