Reefbreeder Paywall Feature good or bad?

[VintageReefer]

Looks like a complete ripoff. Many of those features are offered for free on other lights—including my Chinese black boxes on my QT tank. $10 a month to change the location? $120 a year to access a basic acclimation feature? That is absolute absurdity

I’ve been reefing a long time and never needed any of them. It’s optional things that aren’t essential to run a reef. Acclimation can easily be programmed for free if you wanted to spend 20 min one time in the app yourself vs $$$ to have it provided.

The location imports sun/weather info from servers and has your reef replicate the sun based on any location in the world you choose. Cloudy in Fiji today? Then your tank has a cloudy day also. Needed? Nope. Cool? I think so. With the money? Up to the owner to decide

 

[13rodo]

The location imports sun/weather info from servers and has your reef replicate the sun based on any location in the world you choose. Cloudy in Fiji today? Then your tank has a cloudy day also. Needed? Nope. Cool? I think so. With the money? Up to the owner to decide

Want to know what’s wild though? If the lights have a 0-10V dimmer, that’s such an easy thing to replicate on just about any internet enabled embedded platform. I suspect the 0-10V interface is disappearing somewhat (not sure if these still have it) to prevent DIY controllers. Maybe that’s a bit tinfoil hat lol

 

[VintageReefer]

Want to know what’s wild though? If the lights have a 0-10V dimmer, that’s such an easy thing to replicate on just about any internet enabled embedded platform. I suspect the 0-10V interface is disappearing somewhat (not sure if these still have it) to prevent DIY controllers. Maybe that’s a bit tinfoil hat lol

I would not be surprised if those became antiquated as more things become proprietary and revenue needs to be recuperated.

Keep in mind that to get the functionality you are describing, a light would need the 0-10v interface, and with that, you don’t get anything but a connection port. You still need to buy a device for that to connect to in order to host the programming and send the commands. Many will have apex or whatever but many don’t, so what they are offering is a stand alone option, and standalone is always more expensive in comparison. Adding the port just offsets the cost to somewhere else

 

[slingfox]

I’ve been reefing a long time and never needed any of them. It’s optional things that aren’t essential to run a reef. Acclimation can easily be programmed for free if you wanted to spend 20 min one time in the app yourself vs $$$ to have it provided.

The location imports sun/weather info from servers and has your reef replicate the sun based on any location in the world you choose. Cloudy in Fiji today? Then your tank has a cloudy day also. Needed? Nope. Cool? I think so. With the money? Up to the owner to decide

Can you post a picture of the exact description of the function that states the Reef Breeders app can adjust the lighting to mimic real-time or real world weather patterns like cloudiness? My AI data scrapers couldn’t find any information that describes that kind of functionality but I don’t have the app installed on my computer so they can’t look there. Such functionality is available in other consumer products such as smart sprinkers. For example, the Rachio line of sprinkler controllers adjust watering based upon the local weather forecast. Thankfully, this functionality is provided free by Rachio.

From the image posted it seems like users can choose a location and have their sunrise and sunset automatically adjust. This is very basic functionality which can be found on $30 light switches which have been around for decades. The reason why is the is functionality is simple to program. All you need is latitude, longitude, and date and the sunrise and sunset is readily calculated.

 

[VintageReefer]

Can you post a picture of the exact description of the function that states the Reef Breeders app can adjust the lighting to mimic real-time or real world weather patterns like cloudiness? My AI data scrapers couldn’t find any information that describes that kind of functionality but I don’t have the app installed on my computer so they can’t look there. Such functionality is available in other consumer products such as smart sprinkers. For example, the Rachio line of sprinkler controllers adjust watering based upon the local weather forecast. Thankfully, this functionality is provided free by Rachio.

From the image posted it seems like users can choose a location and have their sunrise and sunset automatically adjust. This is very basic functionality which can be found on $30 light switches which have been around for decades. The reason why is the is functionality is simple to program. All you need is latitude, longitude, and date and the sunrise and sunset is readily calculated.

I might have mistaken weather for sun cycle. I read it months ago, here

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/meridians-who-else-pre-ordered-them.1051691/post-13298612

 

[slingfox]

I might have mistaken weather for sun cycle. I read it months ago, here

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/meridians-who-else-pre-ordered-them.1051691/post-13298612

Below is the functionally described. As stated above, location-based sunrise/sunset is functionally that has been available other consumer products for decades and without subscription (eg, light switches):

“In addition we will be offering a location based variable sun schedule. This allows the light to follow natural sunrise and sunset cycles based on any location of your choice, ie great barrier reef, adjusting the sunrise and sunset time daily based on real time weather data.”

The confusing mischaracterization is you don’t need any “real time weather data” to calculate sunrise and sunset. The only inputs you really need are latitude, longitude, and date.

 

[fish_collector]

I'm not a Reef Breeders user, I wouldn't even know a Meridian if it were installed over my tank. With that said, a light for your fish tank shouldn't have a subscription attached to it to make it work. Plug it in, turn it on, adjust some settings and forget about it. What else is necessary?

Personally I love the Reefis I use, affordable, high powered, no cloud app to make it work, free lifetime software updates, 3 year warranty, adjustable in tenths of a percent increments, ramp up and down for as long a period as you want, 9 color channels, up to 9 daily light settings that blend so smoothly you do not notice it happening, real life moon phases, user selected acclimation protocols, 3 different lens kits included, and best of all they run at a frequency that is camera friendly. Seriously what more does one need?

 

[VintageReefer]

Below is the functionally described. As stated above, location-based sunrise/sunset is functionally that has been available other consumer products for decades and without subscription (eg, light switches):

“In addition we will be offering a location based variable sun schedule. This allows the light to follow natural sunrise and sunset cycles based on any location of your choice, ie great barrier reef, adjusting the sunrise and sunset time daily based on real time weather data.”

The confusing mischaracterization is you don’t need any “real time weather data” to calculate sunrise and sunset. The only inputs you really need are latitude, longitude, and date.

I probably was confused and remembering wrong. I stand corrected.

 

[VintageReefer]

I'm not a Reef Breeders user, I wouldn't even know a Meridian if it were installed over my tank. With that said, a light for your fish tank shouldn't have a subscription attached to it to make it work.

It’s not required at all

Plug it in, turn it on, adjust some settings and forget about it. What else is necessary

That’s exactly how it is

 

[VintageReefer]

Crazy. People are more upset at 3 non essential features being released with an optional cost, than they were when they weren’t available at all.

 

[fish_collector]

Crazy. People are more upset at 3 non essential features being released with an optional cost, than they were when they weren’t available at all.

It doesn't make me upset at all, I don't use them. It's the thought that a product is already fully capable when it's manufactured, but the manufacturer decides to charge the consumer more to unlock certain capabilities. I get it, a manufacturer needs to recoup their engineering costs while at the same time streamlining production with one product. I'm a consumer myself and I'd rather just buy a product and use it without any further strings attached. It's not an uncommon practice, Haas the vertical CNC mill manufacturer, does the same thing. I think it jerks around the consumer more than anything. And the solution...don't buy their products.

 

[VintageReefer]

no cloud app to make it work

Meridian can be controlled over WiFi, Bluetooth, or with manual controller dials

, free lifetime software updates,

Same

3 year warranty,

That’s great warranty! Meridian has 2

adjustable in tenths of a percent increments,

Available

ramp up and down for as long a period as you want,

Same

9 color channels,

6 but I would argue that the Reefi contains channels that are unnecessary, and many people complain about the whites and the tank having a pinkish look under them

up to 9 daily light settings that blend so smoothly you do not notice it happening,

What is a daily light setting? A set point? Unlimited daily set points

real life moon phases,

Included free

user selected acclimation protocols,

Can be programmed free, or optional charge for a automatic included mode

3 different lens kits included,

That’s sweet! The other lens kits are an optional part

and best of all they run at a frequency that is camera friendly.

These are completely camera friendly. One person with one model camera on who knows what setting had an issue sounded like it was related to refresh rate

Seriously what more does one need?

Need is relative. Most of the stuff listed isn’t needed at all. There are things Meridians offer that’s not mentioned, but are they needed? No. Nice? I think so

 

[fish_collector]

It seems you have some kind of financial interest in Reef Breeders to defend their product so energetically, not just in this thread but in general. And I really don't care if you do or don't, I just voiced my opinion on the topic because that's what the OP asked for. There are many lights on the market and the consumer must pick the one that best suits their needs. Reefi suits my needs with nothing else.

I've never read the "many" complaints about Reefis being pink ?? People do complain they are too blue but never pink.

When I say daily settings, I mean the different color zones for sunrise, morning, noon, afternoon, evening etc. But I even find that to be pretty much non-essential. MH used to be either on or off, they grew corals! There's not much more one "needs" but again my opinion. I'm too heavily invested into LED at the moment to go back to MH, but too much off topic for that rabbit hole here.

I've got an idea, have RB send me a meridian and I'll use it and report back what I think.

 

[VintageReefer]

It doesn't make me upset at all,

Didn’t mean you. I thought you brought up valid points. I just was generalizing about the overall feedback over some non essential features having cost

I don't use them. It's the thought that a product is already fully capable when it's manufactured, but the manufacturer decides to charge the consumer more to unlock certain capabilities.

The hardware was capable at release, but it’s just hardware. It’s capable of virtually anything with the right coding. The app was not able to perform these new features and were not a part of the purchase price of the light

Since release, app updates have been made, bug corrections performed and some new features were provided free. On the side, some extra features were developed, they are not essential to run the light or a reef, and were not part of any past functionality people used to have, and these were offered optionally at a cost. I don’t feel they are needed, nor worth the cost, so I’m not buying them. My experience and opinion of the light does not change at all.

I get it, a manufacturer needs to recoup their engineering costs while at the same time streamlining production with one product. I'm a consumer myself and I'd rather just buy a product and use it without any further strings attached.

You can do that. If acclimation mode and location based sunrise are essential requirements for someone, then they can add $200 to the light cost for a lifetime upgrade that covers 3 lights, or pick another light.

Kessil has a number of lights that require a $100 spectral controller if you want to unlock: dusk/dawn, lunar cycles, acclimation, and individual channel control. Other lights follow this model also - an optional upgrade part to unlock extra features. If you have 3 tanks, then it’s 3x100$
If they make a new model light, it might need a new model controller.

The rb approach is user license based, up to 3 simultaneous lights that are present or future models, for life, for $200. It’s not a subscription. The only subscription is actually more of a test/trial, for people to spend 10$ to unlock the features for a month - to use if they want to test them out to determine if they should buy the lifetime upgrade, or if they have a one off need to use acclimation mode, they could opt to spend $10 and get acclimation mode for a month, and then when the purpose has been served they can cancel

It's not an uncommon practice, Haas the vertical CNC mill manufacturer, does the same thing. I think it jerks around the consumer more than anything. And the solution...don't buy their products.

Unfamiliar but if it’s for important or core functions of the device, shame on them. If it’s for some extra features that NOBODY NEEDS then I don’t see a problem if it’s optional.

 

[sl0th]

Crazy. People are more upset at 3 non essential features being released with an optional cost, than they were when they weren’t available at all.

People are not upset at non-essential features being released with 'optional cost' (also is it truly optional if I want one of the features and then have to pay the same cost to get all 3?).

People are upset at a company trying out a subscription model. I've said it in the other thread, look to Netflix / Disney / Amazon / Paramount + as to what happens when we collectively buy into these models.

I personally don't want this sort of model to make its way into our hobby. I would never buy the subscription either as I don't think the features are needed, but it doesn't stop me from recognising that these models are wrong. Also, if you yourself believe these features are unnecessary, how can you justify the cost per month Reefbreeders are asking for?

If they can't afford to fund their app development from their existing profits then that's a shame but asking consumers to pay £8.99 a month for that is ridiculous. I don't think we will see eye-to-eye on this though as you seem to be their biggest supporter...

 

[JTsucks]

Please pass along your vote on the new reefbreeder Paywall software feature.

I love the paywall

 

[VintageReefer]

It seems you have some kind of financial interest in Reef Breeders to defend their product so energetically, not just in this thread but in general.

I have zero financial interest, obligation, or ties to them.

I’ve said it many times. I don’t think acclimation mode is important. The other premium features are cool but I don’t need them. I don’t think they are worth the cost.

And I really don't care if you do or don't, I just voiced my opinion on the topic because that's what the OP asked for. There are many lights on the market and the consumer must pick the one that best suits their needs.

I respect that, I agree

When I say daily settings, I mean the different color zones for sunrise, morning, noon, afternoon, evening etc. But I even find that to be pretty much non-essential. MH used to be either on or off with just a few minutes of odd color as they warmed up, they grew corals! There's not much more one "needs" but again my opinion. I'm too heavily invested into LED at the moment to go back to MH, but too much off topic for that rabbit hole here

Former MH user also and my acclimation mode was layers of window mesh and I had zero brightness control. Change spectrum? Gonna cost $$$ - buy different halides, or start buying different model t5’s

There is nothing in premium that anyone needs in order use the light. It’s optional “cool features”. If anyone thinks they need acclimation mode to be successful, your reefing card is revoked. It’s easier than ever to adjust the lights spectrum and output.

I’m glad they offset the cost of developing these features into an external optional charge rather than increase the cost of the light for everyone.

 

[fish_collector]

I must have said something that really poked a nerve with you Vintage, you've individually quoted and responded to every single word I've said here. What's up with that? And I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm just wondering why you picked my post in particular to dissect.

 

[VintageReefer]

People are not upset at non-essential features being released with 'optional cost' (also is it truly optional if I want one of the features and then have to pay the same cost to get all 3?).

Some people are
Also - good point. One other similar point I have is, if it’s 10$ per month, or 200$ for life, if this includes up to 3 lights, then what about people with 1 light. It seems like it shouldn’t be the same price for owners of 1 light compared to someone with 3

People are upset at a company trying out a subscription model. I've said it in the other thread, look to Netflix / Disney / Amazon / Paramount + as to what happens when we collectively buy into these models.

These are great! Lol I’m a fan of my streaming apps

I hate that ms office went to subscription

I personally don't want this sort of model to make its way into our hobby. I would never buy the subscription either as I don't think the features are needed, but it doesn't stop me from recognising that these models are wrong. Also, if you yourself believe these features are unnecessary, how can you justify the cost per month Reefbreeders are asking for?

I don’t justify it and don’t have them. It’s overpriced imo

If they can't afford to fund their app development from their existing profits then that's a shame but asking consumers to pay £8.99 a month for that is ridiculous. I don't think we will see eye-to-eye on this though as you seem to be their biggest supporter...

I don’t think it’s intended for people to pay 9$ a month long term. The purpose of the 9$ was for people to use premium short term, affordably, if/when needed or to sample it to decide if it’s worth $200 to a user

 

[slingfox]

It seems you have some kind of financial interest in Reef Breeders to defend their product so energetically, not just in this thread but in general. And I really don't care if you do or don't, I just voiced my opinion on the topic because that's what the OP asked for. There are many lights on the market and the consumer must pick the one that best suits their needs. Reefi suits my needs with nothing else.

I've never read the "many" complaints about Reefis being pink ?? People do complain they are too blue but never pink.

When I say daily settings, I mean the different color zones for sunrise, morning, noon, afternoon, evening etc. But I even find that to be pretty much non-essential. MH used to be either on or off, they grew corals! There's not much more one "needs" but again my opinion. I'm too heavily invested into LED at the moment to go back to MH, but too much off topic for that rabbit hole here.

I've got an idea, have RB send me a meridian and I'll use it and report back what I think.

@VintageReefer is the biggest Reef Breeders white knight on Reef2Reef. He is constantly defending them. Pretty much never has anything bad to say. This behavior undermines his objectively and credibility when it comes to any lighting or Reef Breeders topic unfortunately.

I cannot think of any other poster defending any other company or product as hard