Reefbreeder Paywall Feature good or bad?

[VintageReefer]

I must have said something that really poked a nerve with you Vintage, you've individually quoted and responded to every single word I've said here. What's up with that? And I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm just wondering why you picked my post in particular to dissect.

Nope! I’m not upset at all. Just thought it was open discussion and clearer to respond that way

I thought you had respectful thoughtful points and brought some valuable perspective to the table

 

[VintageReefer]

@VintageReefer is the biggest Reef Breeders white knight on Reef2Reef. He is constantly defending them. Pretty much never has anything bad to say. This behavior undermines his objectively and credibility when it comes to any lighting or Reef Breeders topic unfortunately.

I cannot think of any other poster defending any other company or product as hard

How can you say that when I flat out say the package is overpriced, I don’t think the features are essential or worth it, and I’m not signing up for it

A reefi user chimed in and listed features / benefits of their light, and i gave credit where credit is due and praised the warranty, the inclusion of the optional lenses, and other things. I didn’t retort and counter back with MERIDIAN IS BETTER BECAUSE. I gave props to another brand light because it’s a good light with a lot of positive points.

 

[fish_collector]

Nope! I’m not upset at all. Just thought it was open discussion and clearer to respond that way

I thought you had respectful thoughtful points and brought some valuable perspective to the table

Well ok thanks for clearing that up

 

[slingfox]

How can you say that when I flat out say the package is overpriced, I don’t think the features are essential or worth it, and I’m not signing up for it

Your posts—not only on this thread but many others—are 95% trying to defend or hype Reef Breeders and their business practices.

If you had simply stated: “the package is overpriced, I don’t think the features are essential or worth it, and I’m not signing up for it”—this thread would be a lot shorter!

I don’t think you can deny you are indeed the biggest white knight for Reef Breeders on Reef2Reef. That is objective fact. You probably have more posts in the last 12 - 18 months mentioning Reef Breeders than the official Reef Breeders account! I am not aware of any other poster engaging in that kind of activity on Reef2Reef on behalf of a company or product.

I asked one of the LLMs for its view. It states as follows:

“VintageReefer is a long-tenured, high-post-count member (40,000+ messages, joined 2018) who posts frequently in Reef Breeders/Meridian threads — including apparently starting or heavily driving the main “Reef Breeders Meridians” thread, sharing his own light schedules that other users adopt, and fielding questions alongside Reef Breeders’ own account. His tone in every excerpt I found is enthusiastic: “extremely well built,” “went above and beyond,” corals “pop,” no complaints. I found zero negative or critical comments from him about the product in this sample.”

 

[VintageReefer]

Your posts—not only on this thread but many others—are 95% trying to defend or hype Reef Breeders and their business practices.

It seems there is a lot of extremist / fearful views, I admit I went out of my way to spew out some facts so new buyers can hear both sides

If you had simply stated: “the package is overpriced, I don’t think the features are essential or worth it, and I’m not signing up for it”—this thread would be a lot shorter!

My first post in this thread.

I don’t want the premium features and I don’t want them built into my base price if I have a choice

And then…

I think the price is high, so I’m glad it’s offered as optional instead of inflating the lights price

I’ve been reefing a long time and never needed any of them. It’s optional things that aren’t essential to run a reef.

3 non essential features being released with an optional cost

some extra features were developed, they are not essential to run the light or a reef, and were not part of any past functionality people used to have, and these were offered optionally at a cost. I don’t feel they are needed, nor worth the cost, so I’m not buying them

some extra features that NOBODY NEEDS then I don’t see a problem if it’s optional.

I’ve said it many times. I don’t think acclimation mode is important. The other premium features are cool but I don’t need them. I don’t think they are worth the cost.

There is nothing in premium that anyone needs in order use the light. It’s optional “cool features”. If anyone thinks they need acclimation mode to be successful, your reefing card is revoked.

I don’t justify it and don’t have them. It’s overpriced imo

How can you say that when I flat out say the package is overpriced, I don’t think the features are essential or worth it, and I’m not signing up for it

I don’t think you can deny you are indeed the biggest white knight for Reef Breeders on Reef2Reef. That is objective fact. You probably have more posts in the last 12 - 18 months mentioning Reef Breeders than the official Reef Breeders account! I am not aware of any other poster engaging in that kind of activity on Reef2Reef on behalf of a company or product.

Fair enough. Guilty as charged. I get involved in discussions that seem to get off course or borderline inaccurate, and I offer truth and perspective.

Do you see me in x vs y lighting arguments white knighting for RB? I might throw a recommendation out there if someone is looking for one, but I’m not in drama threads saying it’s the best light ever.

 

[Reefing102]

I voted no but simply because I don’t like subscription based services (I do have several subscription based services but I still don’t like them). If everything in this reefing hobby moves to subscription based services, I feel the hobby will shrink even more.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Crazy. People are more upset at 3 non essential features being released with an optional cost, than they were when they weren’t available at all.

Upset, no. Noted that a light priced like its competitors lacks functionality found in the competitors' offerings? Totally noted. Getting less for your money is easy for most to understand if they take the time to look.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef-breeders-meridians.1095449/post-14428311

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Your posts—not only on this thread but many others—are 95% trying to defend or hype Reef Breeders and their business practices.

The behavior tracks across platforms, sometimes under different usernames.

 

[VintageReefer]

Upset, no.

Yes some do come across as upset

Noted that a light priced like its competitors lacks <1> functionality found in the competitors' offerings? Totally noted. Getting less for your money <2> is easy for most to understand if they take the time to look.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef-breeders-meridians.1095449/post-14428311

<1> seldom used, never actually needed

<2> man, no lightning storms or jellyfish mode?!?! Pass!

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

It seems there is a lot of extremist / fearful views

Your anti-acclimation extremism is entertaining and maybe a bit shortsighted, but as with everything reefing, there are many ways to do what we do. Some of us find value in acclimation. Some of us find value in offering base functionality typically found in other similarly-priced offerings. Some of us really like when those base offerings are found in less expensive lights.

I think we all get that you don't need acclimation. That's cool, but you don't speak for the rest of us.

I admit I went out of my way to spew out some facts so new buyers can hear both sides

Happy facts spittin'!

 

[CrunchyBananas]

It’s a shame, reefbreeders have always been solid lights, but I refuse to buy a product from a company even attempting subscription pricing like this, guess they’re out of the running for future builds.

The only way I would even see this justifiable is a novel feature added each month.

 

[sl0th]

Some people are
Also - good point. One other similar point I have is, if it’s 10$ per month, or 200$ for life, if this includes up to 3 lights, then what about people with 1 light. It seems like it shouldn’t be the same price for owners of 1 light compared to someone with 3


These are great! Lol I’m a fan of my streaming apps

I hate that ms office went to subscription


I don’t justify it and don’t have them. It’s overpriced imo

I don’t think it’s intended for people to pay 9$ a month long term. The purpose of the 9$ was for people to use premium short term, affordably, if/when needed or to sample it to decide if it’s worth $200 to a user

It seems that our difference is that you are not that bothered about subscription services and will just choose not to use them if you think they are overpriced / not necessary. My core issue is that I believe subscription models are fundamentally bad. So we'll likely not agree but fair enough!

Good point also about the no. of lights. I think the subscription model they are proposing seems more geared towards funding their app development rather than providing specific services to consumers. It doesn't seem particularly tailored which to me implies they are more focused on profit than the consumer. But that's all assumption (same as your assumption about it only being intented for short-term monthly use to decide if features are worth it before going for lifetime - which I would refute by pointing out that this is how subscription models make money, by banking on a number of people forgetting to cancel).

 

[Reefering1]

Nothing. We have all the features that always were there

Subscription is really just designed to try the new features for a small cost. It’s a rental fee lol 10$ a month to unlock for up to 3 lights. The other option is a one time fee of $200 to unlock premium for life, and if you sell your light and get another one down the line, you still will have premium unlocked. I think the price is high, so I’m glad it’s offered as optional instead of inflating the lights price

Very basic features that the cheapest decent lights out there include.

I’ve been reefing a long time and never needed any of them. It’s optional things that aren’t essential to run a reef. Acclimation can easily be programmed for free if you wanted to spend 20 min one time in the app yourself vs $$$ to have it provided.

I don't disagree. But if they are selling the subscription- doesn't that mean the option is already available and they're simply holding it back to milk more money out of folks?

I would not be surprised if those became antiquated as more things become proprietary and revenue needs to be recuperated.

Of course, they will defend their income.

Crazy. People are more upset at 3 non essential features being released with an optional cost, than they were when they weren’t available at all.

The general sentiment is not about these particularly unnecessary features now, but more of the potential. Slippery slope. "New" features now, but for how long will they be able to come up with more new features vs charging a subscription just to use the light?

Again,
What if other manufactures did the same thing with their equipment. What if they all did it?
At a certain point, they will be holding your tank hostage.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

My opinion is that the subscription aspect is just one area where the Meridian falls short of the similarly priced competition, but much of what has been shared is preference over data. Although there are preference metrics noted in this comparison, this big-picture comparison of a mature fixture/marketing vs the Meridian 24 may be helpful for some.

https://tinyurl.com/meridian-24-vs-competitor
Please note any errors, and I'll fix them immediately.

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Nicrew must be enjoying the bump.
If you can do it behind a pay wall, you can do it in broad daylight. The programming is already a sunk cost; why not offer it gratis and maybe earn some of the premium product pricing? Use it as a competitive advantage instead of as a hindrance to people already put off by the base price. This is arrogant, imo. They must be very proud of their lights. Nice lights, sure. But now a hard "no" for me.

 

[Bitter old man]

 

[BeanAnimal]

Crazy. People are more upset at 3 non essential features being released with an optional cost, than they were when they weren’t available at all.

think people are more bothered by the mechanism and what looks like a very slippery slope. What is next? “Buy our 1,000 GPH return pump. It comes out of the box at 100 GPH, and every additional 100 GPH costs $1 per month.”

I am not paying ReefBreeders, or any other vendor in this space, a subscription fee for anything non-consumable. In fact, any company that steps into the subscription-based features space is dead to me. There are too many other options, and if those options run out, then oh well.

It is not about profit. I wish them all insane profits. It is about blurring the line between hardware ownership, paid subscriptions, and dependence on the continued availability of a cloud service.

I love the paywall

Troll posts and shills are bothersome too, but we are all entitled to our opinions I suppose.

 

[VintageReefer]

It seems that our difference is that you are not that bothered about subscription services and will just choose not to use them if you think they are overpriced / not necessary. My core issue is that I believe subscription models are fundamentally bad. So we'll likely not agree but fair enough!

I think we actually both agree but simply handle it / react different. Can we both agree we don’t like subscriptions?

(same as your assumption about it only being intented for short-term monthly use to decide if features are worth it before going for lifetime

Not an assumption, that was from RB.

- which I would refute by pointing out that this is how subscription models make money, by banking on a number of people forgetting to cancel).

For other things, that’s happened to me before. I was able to contact them (other companies) after I saw the charge and get it refunded and the subscription canceled

 

[exnisstech]

No thank you. I don’t want the premium features and I don’t want them built into my base price if I have a choice


It is not an evergrow. There is no equal light on the market in any country. The meridian is a 100% original light designed and built by reefbreeders


Nothing. We have all the features that always were there

Subscription is really just designed to try the new features for a small cost. It’s a rental fee lol 10$ a month to unlock for up to 3 lights. The other option is a one time fee of $200 to unlock premium for life, and if you sell your light and get another one down the line, you still will have premium unlocked. I think the price is high, so I’m glad it’s offered as optional instead of inflating the lights price

Btw this is what premium unlocks

Everything else is free, always has been and always will be. Including location based lunar schedule.

They aren’t charging for every new feature also. They recently added the intensity slider, which was going to be a premium bundled item, and they decided to publish it for free instead. They also are upgrading all new sold meridians to include Bluetooth control for free, and no cost increase. There are other items being added in the near future with cost increase as well. Stay tuned

There is nothing being offered that I need. I see acclimation mode which I think all lights should have if hardware supports it. The latest update adds a total intensity slider so now I don't even need an acclimation mode. Sure I have to adjust it myself but my life isn't so busy I don't have 3 minutes to do that. Fur those that are so busy I feel for you and hope some day you'll be able slow down and smell the roses.

These are completely camera friendly. One person with one model camera on who knows what setting had an issue sounded like it was related to refresh rate

This is not entirely correct. There have been some changes to the newer 45 vs the early 11. I have no knowledge of the other models. The problem has to do with drivers and timing which is way over my head. I did reach out to reefbreeders because I can not record video with my pixel 10 pro XL because I can not slow the shutter speed in video. To take stills I have to manual slow the shutter speed to 1/60 or slower to stop the screen flicker. Reefbreeders is aware and it sounds like they may be tweaking some things to help reduce that. I'll post the email from RB below when I asked about the issue. The issue is not present on my meridian 11. Originally I was told the 45 is the same as four 11s but that isn't actually correct or I wouldn't have issues with the 45 that I don't have with the 11. Fortunately I'm not a content creator so this is more of an annoyance than anything. But had I known the issue was present I may have saved my $1500 and just moved my photons over instead because I do like to video my tanks sometimes.

Email from reefbreeders.

 

[sl0th]

I think we actually both agree but simply handle it / react different. Can we both agree we don’t like subscriptions?

Not an assumption, that was from RB.


For other things, that’s happened to me before. I was able to contact them (other companies) after I saw the charge and get it refunded and the subscription canceled

Yeah I think we do.

My point about the assumption is we have to assume they are telling the truth (and won't change things / go back on their current truth later) or not.

From what I gather you dislike the subscription but fundamentally just don't mind as you won't purchase it and that's fair. For myself, it's important to be vocal when I dislike the approaches a company is taking, especially if I think it can become a slippery slope.

Either way, I feel like we have similar feelings and, as you said, simply handle it differently :)