Refugium old school now?

[fish farmer]

I started in the hobby 25 ish years ago and I never heard anything about algae turf scrubbers. I do remember hearing about refugiums before getting out of the hobby 15ish years ago, but they weren’t really common afaik.
When I got back into the hobby about 4 years ago I heard a lot about refugiums and ATS. I just assumed ATS were a newer nutrient control method, but I am very possibly completely wrong.

The other thing about being in the hobby before the internet was common was that for someone who didn’t live in a area that has a lot of hobbyists it would’ve been hard to know what was used commonly in other areas. I remember having to read books just to try and figure out what fish were okay to put in my tanks.

It was all about the deep sand bed. No one that I knew and there was zero talk of scrubbers which was referenced in Dynamic Aquaria by Walter Adey, many years before.

 

[Johnz]

It's not about the space, for me at least. I had tanks with refugiums for years. They worked fine but chaeto can be fussy. I had one tank the stuff just wouldn't grow. Algae scrubbers grow hair algae mainly, and seem to just be easier. I also think they are more effective at nutrient export, but I don't have any data to back that up.

As far losing a place to grow pods and such, sum rubble in my sump and a denser aquascape seem sufficient. Again that's hard to quantify but I don't see a reduction in fauna since ditching the fuge.

 

[Gtinnel]

I actually miss the days of books and having to look things up that way lol.

There I do have to disagree. I do like being able to find any information online, even if you do have to wade through tons of bad information to figure out what you should believe. It’s still better than having to buy or borrow a book to get what equates to a single persons (or possibly a couple of peoples) views/experiences.

 

[Gtinnel]

It was all about the deep sand bed. No one that I knew and there was zero talk of scrubbers which was referenced in Dynamic Aquaria by Walter Adey, many years before.

I absolutely remember the days of insanely deep sand beds.

 

[fish farmer]

I pulled 20 year old dsb last year out of a fowlr, didn't really smell bad at all.

I absolutely remember the days of insanely deep sand beds.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

There I do have to disagree. I do like being able to find any information online, even if you do have to wade through tons of bad information to figure out what you should believe. It’s still better than having to buy or borrow a book to get what equates to a single persons (or possibly a couple of peoples) views/experiences.

I am just referring to the feel of the pages and the digging through them to find an answer. Like a hunt of sorts lol.

The web has been a great wealth of knowledge, even having to dig through trolls and crap. We can all share our experiences and they may help someone. It also allows for many eyes that have been doing this for a while to view a problem and hopefully see a resolution that may change an outlook on an age old belief that worked for one, but never worked for others. Hopefully that makes sense lol.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

It was all about the deep sand bed. No one that I knew and there was zero talk of scrubbers which was referenced in Dynamic Aquaria by Walter Adey, many years before.

I knew one person that made one, it was pretty crude and ugly. Just some white pvc with holes drilled in it that dripped onto plastic mesh that was zip tied on it with a clamp on light pointed at it. I can’t imagine that it was effective. It was sure an ugly disaster but then again that was when tanks were dirty. I can eat off of most peoples sumps these days

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I actually miss the days of books and having to look things up that way lol.

Funny you say that, we were posting about that last night but the thread got closed down. Martin Moes reef aquariums and systems book and the two little fishies books were my favs. The problem is no one’s published anything recently that I know of so it’s all outdated. At least the info they had was verified and cited whereas the internet doesn’t care. You can make up anything you want and say it’s science

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Funny you say that, we were posting about that last night but the thread got closed down. Martin Moes reef aquariums and systems book and the two little fishies books were my favs. The problem is no one’s published anything recently that I know of so it’s all outdated. At least the info they had was verified and cited whereas the internet doesn’t care. You can make up anything you want and say it’s science

Not to stray away or get get a debate started. This is true, but a lot of the time you can find if it is BS or not by looking at the posters different post, their tanks, etc. It just takes some due diligence on the readers part to investigate things. Sadly, not everyone researches enough. So I agree, at least with books, you had cited studies, it came from people that lead the charge in taking care of tanks, etc.

But end of day, us old farts have to adjust lol. Learn the web and know to take it all with a grain of salt and do extra research before deciding.

 

[Ashish Patel]

They are still around but its almost free - so out of fashion when ppl push turf scrubbers, Algae reactors etc. I've been in hobby a long time and still go by simple berlin method, Skimmer, and refugium but may do a DIY turf scrubber bc I figure it would be easier to clean and will just keep my sump free of potential pest I dont want to introduce like aiptasia, I have a 80 gallon spare chamber in my sump so i can do whatever i feel like!

 

[areefer01]

I’ve been out of the reefing world for a little over ten years now. Just placed an order for a Redsea 1000S G2 and something I’ve noticed is refugiums aren’t as common. When I had my setup every large tank had to have a refugium. It was considered essential and now I’m seeing they aren’t nearly as common. What’s changed in the last ten years or so for that to be different?

They are not? I think the answer is that hobbyist today do not know what an actual refugium is. Or if by chance they do it isn't implemented correctly for pod migration between refugium and display.

July/August Coral Magazine has a great article on refugiums. When setup properly (key word "properly") they are a tremendous asset to our display tanks.

 

[Crustaceon]

I think is just a case of more options becoming available. I probably would still be running a refugium if I didn't switch to carbon dosing after trying it out long term and liking it more.

 

[RedoubtReef]

Before I moved, I had a 75 gallon fuge attached to my 80 display. Tank never looked better. My new build has a 40 gallon fuge that I'll be running. I always had good experience with the diversity it provides and the ability to grow Chaeto for nutrient export.

 

[jmichaelh7]

This is the reason why i had to upgrade my refugium. I believe they are very beneficial

 

[adyinsta]

Refugium is the natural way for nutrient export (if you have enough space...). Chaeto's growth ratio depends on you nutrient levels and just need to do some gardening labor once every few weeks, it also helps to keep a healthy microfauna and raises Ph at nights (with a inverted light cycle) and at the output of a Calcium Reactor.
In the other way, you need to have a biopellet reactor, and a GFO reactor, not considering Ph benefits (is there a real space saving considering two reactors?), adding the extra labor to clean and keep media running and in good shape.
With both methods you can keep a healthy reef. It is a matter of what you want.

 

[King_CRAB]

I don’t get it, where do you put the misbehaving invertebrates if you don't have a refugium?

 

[Katrina71]

I love a refugium. I prefer it.

 

[Screwgunner]

The trick with ats is the screen size to big and you end up putting phosphates and nitrates in the system to small and you have to many nutrients. A 50 square inch screen lite on both sides should be good for 3 to 4 frozen cubes a day. I will not run a reef with out one . Just my two cents!

 

[Screwgunner]

The trick with ats is the screen size to big and you end up putting phosphates and nitrates in the system to small and you have to many nutrients. A 50 square inch screen lite on both sides should be good for 3 to 4 frozen cubes a day. I will not run a reef with out one . Just my two cents!

My screens are high so underneath is basically a refugium. So I have the best of both world's .

 

[Screwgunner]

I even have some baby chromis swimming around in the bottom of my sump!