Ribbon eel feeding

[Indoor_Ocean]

I added 3 ribbon eels to my tank a week ago - one juvenile, one just starting to turn blue on the underside of its neck with yellow eyes, and one (pictured) that was blue when I first saw it at the LFS, darkened up, and questionably looked to be turning yellow when I brought it home. I figured even if it's a terminal eel, it's in captivity and deserved a home until the time comes. Its color tends to be more dark navy and pale yellow toward the tail; this was the lightest I've seen it. Has anyone who's kept them through the color change noticed this darkening, or is this stress coloration/something else? It's by far the most active of the 3.

I threw in 5 live mollies on Thursday. The blue/yellow eel went after one very gingerly, it got away, and the eel had no further interest. Over the next 2 hours, 3 got eaten by the other eels, 1 was injured by an eel and ended up in my pufferfish's mouth, and 1 was hiding by the overflow and gone the next morning.
Today, I tried pieces of thawed Hikari silversides. The blue/yellow eel would get close then back away and would not pick up the food if I dropped it right by it. The other's ate great, and the eel turning blue even tried to steal my puffer's clam.

I'd really appreciate any advice on getting this one eating and what those who have kept them long term feed. I've also heard they do better with live and to stay away from krill due to the thiaminase. That being said, should I alternate frozen and live or feed frozen other than silversides? How frequently would you recommend feeding them and how much/should I let them gorge? How many Mollies should I throw in? I know ribbon eels are notorious for being difficult to feed/keep, but I'll do whatever they need to thrive. Thank you!

 

[Slocke]

@lion king

 

[lion king]

Other than black being juvi and male being blue, in captivity the color thing can kind of be a mystery. All juvi's are to first turn male then through breeding pressure the appropriate individual will turn female, which will be the yellow/green phase. I'm not sure how you described it as thee terminal phase, they can live 20 years in the wild. I have rarely seen any females in captivity, and have never seen one transition all the way to the female phase. I have seen one example of a juvi going female but they seem to have reverted back to the juvi/male transition. I imagine this has something to do with the population in the wild getting devastated and the pressure for breeding turning individuals female at a younger age.

Try slicing your dead food offerings into slices vs chunks, a thinner piece about the width of the mouth, the length can be 2-3". You want to include a fatty fish, I recommend a wild skin on salmon. Hikari now uses smelt as their silverside source which does contain thiaminese so I do suggest switching to the San Francisco Bay brand. SFB brand using a true silverside as their fish source, silverside is used as a common name encompassing many species. Right now the only brand I know of using a true silverside not containing thiaminese is SFB. If you have a convenient Asian market you may find human grade true silversides. You can also try squid, octopus, mussels, clams.

Feeding a couple times a week is a good rule of thumb if everyone is eating well, every 3 days. In the beginning to get them fattened up and if you have a small juvi, maybe every other day for a couple of weeks, but always give a break between feedings. Over time as they are fattened up and adults, feeding can be once week. Gorge them their full on feeding day. The size of the molly is going to have a bearing on how many you are feeding, I prefer feeding smaller food items all around, rather than extremely huge items. This helps to manage any overfeeding.

The only long term success I have seen with these guys was to incorporate at least a hybrid diet including live fish, forever. They may eat dead food regularly for a long time and may just stop one day and never eat again. Sometimes reintroducing live food re-establishes their feeding response, sometimes not. Long term dead only diet may produce a nutritional deficiencies which may also be the cause of the refusal of food, or it could be the loss of spirit as a predatory fish not hunting. We can all debate why this happens, but it pretty much happens all the time. Animals are different than humans, at some point they stop eating what does not supply their nutritional needs, humans will just continue making themselves sick.

Sorry, I'm rambling

The chronicles of a Rhinomuraena quaesita

Aka the black ribbon eel in the juvenile form, the blue ribbon eel in the male form, and the green ribbon eel in the female form. This is another notoriously difficult fish to keep, I've had some success with one and would like to share my observations. I've witnessed a couple friends and other...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Indoor_Ocean]

Other than black being juvi and male being blue, in captivity the color thing can kind of be a mystery. All juvi's are to first turn male then through breeding pressure the appropriate individual will turn female, which will be the yellow/green phase. I'm not sure how you described it as thee terminal phase, they can live 20 years in the wild. I have rarely seen any females in captivity, and have never seen one transition all the way to the female phase. I have seen one example of a juvi going female but they seem to have reverted back to the juvi/male transition. I imagine this has something to do with the population in the wild getting devastated and the pressure for breeding turning individuals female at a younger age.

Try slicing your dead food offerings into slices vs chunks, a thinner piece about the width of the mouth, the length can be 2-3". You want to include a fatty fish, I recommend a wild skin on salmon. Hikari now uses smelt as their silverside source which does contain thiaminese so I do suggest switching to the San Francisco Bay brand. SFB brand using a true silverside as their fish source, silverside is used as a common name encompassing many species. Right now the only brand I know of using a true silverside not containing thiaminese is SFB. If you have a convenient Asian market you may find human grade true silversides. You can also try squid, octopus, mussels, clams.

Feeding a couple times a week is a good rule of thumb if everyone is eating well, every 3 days. In the beginning to get them fattened up and if you have a small juvi, maybe every other day for a couple of weeks, but always give a break between feedings. Over time as they are fattened up and adults, feeding can be once week. Gorge them their full on feeding day. The size of the molly is going to have a bearing on how many you are feeding, I prefer feeding smaller food items all around, rather than extremely huge items. This helps to manage any overfeeding.

The only long term success I have seen with these guys was to incorporate at least a hybrid diet including live fish, forever. They may eat dead food regularly for a long time and may just stop one day and never eat again. Sometimes reintroducing live food re-establishes their feeding response, sometimes not. Long term dead only diet may produce a nutritional deficiencies which may also be the cause of the refusal of food, or it could be the loss of spirit as a predatory fish not hunting. We can all debate why this happens, but it pretty much happens all the time. Animals are different than humans, at some point they stop eating what does not supply their nutritional needs, humans will just continue making themselves sick.

Sorry, I'm rambling

The chronicles of a Rhinomuraena quaesita

Aka the black ribbon eel in the juvenile form, the blue ribbon eel in the male form, and the green ribbon eel in the female form. This is another notoriously difficult fish to keep, I've had some success with one and would like to share my observations. I've witnessed a couple friends and other...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you! I've heard that once females turn yellow they die soon after, but I could very well be misinformed.
I'll definitely switch to SFB, and I plan on feeding live to some extent forever. I agree that it's important for a predatory fish to keep its spirit, and watching them hunt is entertaining anyways. I wanted something easy for the juvenile, so the Mollies I fed were quite small, probably under 1". Would you feed bigger?

 

[lion king]

Thank you! I've heard that once females turn yellow they die soon after, but I could very well be misinformed.
I'll definitely switch to SFB, and I plan on feeding live to some extent forever. I agree that it's important for a predatory fish to keep its spirit, and watching them hunt is entertaining anyways. I wanted something easy for the juvenile, so the Mollies I fed were quite small, probably under 1". Would you feed bigger?

For a juvi an inch sounds about right, as time goes by they get bolder and more confident to wrestle down something larger. You'll just have to judge for yourself what's the best size for them to handle, you'll fine tune what;s best over time.

 

[dennis romano]

In your first post, you mention that you have a puffer in with the eels. Be careful. Puffers may nip and hurt the eels.

 

[Indoor_Ocean]

For a juvi an inch sounds about right, as time goes by they get bolder and more confident to wrestle down something larger. You'll just have to judge for yourself what's the best size for them to handle, you'll fine tune what;s best over time.

Do you have ideas for the eel thats not eating live other than keep trying? To me, it looks like it barely tried to catch its meal, and the other eels were far more aggressive. No interest when I tried target feeding a live Mollie either.

 

[lion king]

Do you have ideas for the eel thats not eating live other than keep trying? To me, it looks like it barely tried to catch its meal, and the other eels were far more aggressive. No interest when I tried target feeding a live Mollie either.

Eels do come in with internal parasites frequently and refusing food is an indicator. Taking action sooner rather than later is best. Since there are 2 other eels feeding I really wouldn't give it too long before treating with general cure. They are much easier to feed when in groups and a heathy eel really shouldn't refuse a live meal.

 

[Indoor_Ocean]

In your first post, you mention that you have a puffer in with the eels. Be careful. Puffers may nip and hurt the eels.

Thanks for looking out for them! I have a dogface puffer, and luckily he's extremely docile...except for inverts of course. He lets my blue hippo tang pull food out of his mouth. I have a lot of confidence in this particular fish, otherwise I wouldn't try it. None of my fish seem to care about them so far, and the only addition I'm planning is a flame angel.

 

[Indoor_Ocean]

Eels do come in with internal parasites frequently and refusing food is an indicator. Taking action sooner rather than later is best. Since there are 2 other eels feeding I really wouldn't give it too long before treating with general cure. They are much easier to feed when in groups and a heathy eel really shouldn't refuse a live meal.

Okay, I'll try that. I have a water change scheduled for the 16th. I'll see if I can get it moved up, but if I can't, would you treat and wait for the water change or delay treatment?

 

[lion king]

Thanks for looking out for them! I have a dogface puffer, and luckily he's extremely docile...except for inverts of course. He lets my blue hippo tang pull food out of his mouth. I have a lot of confidence in this particular fish, otherwise I wouldn't try it. None of my fish seem to care about them so far, and the only addition I'm planning is a flame angel.

Dogface puffers are cool and will likely cause no problem.

Okay, I'll try that. I have a water change scheduled for the 16th. I'll see if I can get it moved up, but if I can't, would you treat and wait for the water change or delay treatment?

Predatory fish come in with internal parasites so frequently, I have a strict rule. If my fish don.t take a live food offering after24 hrs, I treat. While they can live a while with internal parasites, you really don't know how long they may have had them. I've seen them live a few weeks before stopping eating, and I've seen them come in not eating and die within days.

 

[lion king]

Do you have ideas for the eel thats not eating live other than keep trying? To me, it looks like it barely tried to catch its meal, and the other eels were far more aggressive. No interest when I tried target feeding a live Mollie either.

Make sure the fish you are offering is not too large. If you can't find itty bitty mollies, try a feeder guppy.

 

[sfin52]

I added 3 ribbon eels to my tank a week ago - one juvenile, one just starting to turn blue on the underside of its neck with yellow eyes, and one (pictured) that was blue when I first saw it at the LFS, darkened up, and questionably looked to be turning yellow when I brought it home. I figured even if it's a terminal eel, it's in captivity and deserved a home until the time comes. Its color tends to be more dark navy and pale yellow toward the tail; this was the lightest I've seen it. Has anyone who's kept them through the color change noticed this darkening, or is this stress coloration/something else? It's by far the most active of the 3.

I threw in 5 live mollies on Thursday. The blue/yellow eel went after one very gingerly, it got away, and the eel had no further interest. Over the next 2 hours, 3 got eaten by the other eels, 1 was injured by an eel and ended up in my pufferfish's mouth, and 1 was hiding by the overflow and gone the next morning.
Today, I tried pieces of thawed Hikari silversides. The blue/yellow eel would get close then back away and would not pick up the food if I dropped it right by it. The other's ate great, and the eel turning blue even tried to steal my puffer's clam.

I'd really appreciate any advice on getting this one eating and what those who have kept them long term feed. I've also heard they do better with live and to stay away from krill due to the thiaminase. That being said, should I alternate frozen and live or feed frozen other than silversides? How frequently would you recommend feeding them and how much/should I let them gorge? How many Mollies should I throw in? I know ribbon eels are notorious for being difficult to feed/keep, but I'll do whatever they need to thrive. Thank you!

@Mibu

 

[Goaway]

I really don't have anything to add to what was said above. There are 2 issues I believe causes eels to not eat. Internal parasites, and cyanide poisoning. Hopefully it's internal parasites and can be treated.

You can always try some shrimp though, I never had problems getting my ribbons to eat shrimp.

 

[nessjosh]

In your first post, you mention that you have a puffer in with the eels. Be careful. Puffers may nip and hurt the eels.

I had a box spiney puffer and a blue throat trigger and one of them nipped my ribbon eels nostrils off. He didnt make it. He has been replaced with a new black ribbon eel who is now safely homed in my reef tank with tangs and anthias. Its amazing how much more docile my ribbon eel is compared to my snowflake who resides in a predator tank. Night and day difference in aggression.

 

[Indoor_Ocean]

Thank you for the general cure suggestion! The general cure seems to have worked and the eel in question is eating. However, I have seen a lot of aggression within the eels, and today I noticed they all have large chunks out of their fins. I'm 100% positive it's not the puffer based on the size of the marks. I'm assuming I need more eel caves, but is there anything I can do to help them heal and stop fighting? They're all still eating.

 

[lion king]

Thank you for the general cure suggestion! The general cure seems to have worked and the eel in question is eating. However, I have seen a lot of aggression within the eels, and today I noticed they all have large chunks out of their fins. I'm 100% positive it's not the puffer based on the size of the marks. I'm assuming I need more eel caves, but is there anything I can do to help them heal and stop fighting? They're all still eating.

If it's just some nipping and superficial wounds then just good water quality and good food and they will heal on their own. What are you feeding these days. More serious wounds may need further care, if any wounds look inflamed jst action may need to be taken. Even a deeper wound should appear to almost immediately start healing and never get worse.

As far as aggressive, yes you need to create some separation between dens options, whether you are building with rock or pvc. I hope the fighting subsides, in the wild the juvi's will live in groups, but as adult males they are solitary outside of breeding. What size tank are they in.

 

[kboogie]

Thank you for the general cure suggestion! The general cure seems to have worked and the eel in question is eating. However, I have seen a lot of aggression within the eels, and today I noticed they all have large chunks out of their fins. I'm 100% positive it's not the puffer based on the size of the marks. I'm assuming I need more eel caves, but is there anything I can do to help them heal and stop fighting? They're all still eating.

I would watch your Humu Humu. I personally have not had success mixing Rhinecanthus triggers and eels.

 

[lion king]

I would watch your Humu Humu. I personally have not had success mixing Rhinecanthus triggers and eels.

How did I miss that, good point.

 

[Indoor_Ocean]

If it's just some nipping and superficial wounds then just good water quality and good food and they will heal on their own. What are you feeding these days. More serious wounds may need further care, if any wounds look inflamed jst action may need to be taken. Even a deeper wound should appear to almost immediately start healing and never get worse.

As far as aggressive, yes you need to create some separation between dens options, whether you are building with rock or pvc. I hope the fighting subsides, in the wild the juvi's will live in groups, but as adult males they are solitary outside of breeding. What size tank are they in.

I'm feeding live mollies and silversides every other day in water chummed with mysis and clams. I'm planning on getting more variety for them soon, but I've been occupied the past few weeks with a hospitalized horse who has had 2 colic surgeries. Clearly, I gravitate towards expensive hobbies that involve animals.

They all tend to hang out in a large conch shell together rather than the rock caves. The largest eel just started going in there the past couple days. I'm planning on getting another for them. I removed the shell for tonight's feeding once I noticed the wounds and have been watching the tank for the past 4 hours. Only aggression from a fish was the humu to a molly.

They're in a 90g with plans to upgrade in a year. The humu and puffer are still pretty juvenile. Only other fish is a younger hippo tang.

I also found the juvenile in my sump tonight. I have a glass top that is reinforced with tiles and duct tape and foam glued between the glass top and overflow. The wounds on that one actually look like it could have been the puffer, but I don't see the puffer making the bite with a tooth mark off center or leaving the fin attached. I also don't see them just sitting there and taking that from a fish when they have a spot to hide where they fit their entire bodies. He would have to have done that viciously and he isn't even that quick with clams or live inverts.