Rising phosphate levels.

[John A!10]

So last week I added two clowns to my 37 gallon reef tank system. It already had one firefish. I started to notice two days ago that there was some green slime growing on the rocks. My nitrates are very low but my phosphates are around 0.2 ppm. Before adding the fish my phosphates were under .1ppm. Should I let it go down on its own, I also have a refugium with chaeto. I have gfo but no reactor, is their a way to run it? Should I just let the chaeto and algae deal with it. I’m using ro water, and don’t want to do a water change because I did one last week, and won’t have the time for another couple days.
Thanks.

 

[jsker]

How long has the system been set up?

 

[John A!10]

How long has the system been set up?

6 months, but I never had time to add fish I only had one firefish since the beginning and some snails. I bought a coral two clowns some snails and hermits last week. All doing good.

 

[jsker]

The system is still cycling, the system will continue to evolve as your system changes over time.

I would suggest bringing down your phosphate .03 to .04. It took me a year to get my phosphates under control.

 

[Timfish]

I would start adding more corals. I would also recommend getting Forest ROhwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle is ~$10, paperback is ~$20). And Richard ROss' video helps put phospahte in perspective I think. And if you want to read some of the research done with phospahte and corals here's some links:

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching - Nature Climate Change

Increased dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) concentrations in sea water have been linked to a reduction of the temperature threshold at which corals bleach, however, the mechanism underlying this change is not known. This phenomenon is now explained in terms of increased phosphatase activities...

www.nature.com

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the uptake of dissolved inorganic nutrients by the algal symbiont and heterotrophic feeding of the coral host. Climate change is expected to...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq

 

[jda]

Understand how phosphate binds and unbinds with aragonite. This will help you understand why a water change won't do nearly anything to the phosphate level in the water. Whatever level you decide that you want to keep, you will need to establish an equilibrium with your import and export all while the aragonite will either act as a buffer for your level (good) -or- a reservoir if you want to be lower -or- sponge if you want to be higher (both bad).

Don't blame the aragonite... it is chemistry 101 and just doing it's thing. It is the hobbyist that needs to understand what is going on and make it all work.

Once you understand, then you will be more equipped to get your tank where you want it to be... wherever that is.

 

[John A!10]

The system is still cycling, the system will continue to evolve as your system changes over time.

I would suggest bringing down your phosphate .03 to .04. It took me a year to get my phosphates under control.

How could I lower it? I don’t have a reactor.

 

[John A!10]

I would start adding more corals. I would also recommend getting Forest ROhwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle is ~$10, paperback is ~$20). And Richard ROss' video helps put phospahte in perspective I think. And if you want to read some of the research done with phospahte and corals here's some links:

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching - Nature Climate Change

Increased dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) concentrations in sea water have been linked to a reduction of the temperature threshold at which corals bleach, however, the mechanism underlying this change is not known. This phenomenon is now explained in terms of increased phosphatase activities...

www.nature.com

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the uptake of dissolved inorganic nutrients by the algal symbiont and heterotrophic feeding of the coral host. Climate change is expected to...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq

I’m adding more corals tomorrow. Leather, and still contemplating on frogspawn, because I have some slime algae. Can I get an anemone that yet?

 

[John A!10]

So if I just let my tank be, will it lower over time? With the chaeto and algae.

 

[jsker]

How could I lower it? I don’t have a reactor.

I have been using nylon panty hose footies link, and I fill the footie with GFO and place the footie in my sump flow tray. I have a reactor, and the footie in the flow tray work better then the reactor.

 

[Timfish]

Corals compete with algae for N & P and there's some pretty complex microbial processes that may favor corals or may favor algae. (See Rohwer's book for an introduction to the role of Dissolved ORganic Carbon in reef microbial processes.) If you want a reef system you need corals to promote the microbial processes that are beneficial for corals. Where you keep your phosphates isn't all that critical but I would point out the research I've lniked above show higher phsoahte levels can accelerate coral growth while lower phsohpate levels can create a phospahte deficiency that interferes with the coral/zooxanthellae simbiosis which will starve the coral making it harder to compete against algae. Aonther complication is we can't test for dissolved organic phosphate (some forms can be used by corals and some forms can't be used) nor can we test for particualte orgainic phosphate. The extant a coral will use these other forms is species specific.


Fig 1 from
Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq