Royal Gramma Face... falling off?

[Ocellaris40]

Hi all,

Hoping for some help.

Background: 40G breeder w/ 10 gal sump in operation ~8.5 months, 0/0/<25 Ammonia, nitrites, Nitrates. 1.025 SG temp 78. inhabitants: 5 mollies, 2 ocellaris, 1 neon cleaner goby.

I've had my Royal Gramma about 6 months, and he's had boughts of damaging himself, he's pretty skittish, so I think he darts quickly into rocks and hurts himself. I noticed on Saturday his face appeared to be falling off - his jaw appears to have broken, and his nose appears to be gone. I had ordered kanaplex which was expected to arrive sunday but amazon bait and switched me and now doesn't get here until tuesday, but was able to pick up some erythromycin and dosed in alignment w/ Humble fish as I read here (https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/can-api-erythromycin-be-added-to-food.9561/). I can't quite seem to find equivalent issues on any of the forums, but I dosed 10 grams of food with 0.033 grams of erythromycin in the hopes of helping him stave off infection while he heals, if he can heal, planning a course for 7-10 days, w hich means i'll probably need to make some more of the mixture. Breaking the tank seems like it's going to be incredibly difficult to do - and would do it if absolutely necessary, and i could put him in QT (which makes me think I answered my own question). Otherwise he's eating and behaving as he always has. I've included some pictures but it's very difficult to get them more in focus, so hopefully these are helpful enough.

I don't want to put him through any unecessary pain or stress, and would put him down if his prognosis isn't good, but thought i'd post in the event anyone has suggestions, or if this helps anyone else in the future. Appreciate anyone who is willing to help out

 

[KrisReef]

Fish that are eating and acting normal generally will heal quickly.

 

[Ocellaris40]

Fish that are eating and acting normal generally will heal quickly.

That's what I'm hoping for!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all,

Hoping for some help.

Background: 40G breeder w/ 10 gal sump in operation ~8.5 months, 0/0/<25 Ammonia, nitrites, Nitrates. 1.025 SG temp 78. inhabitants: 5 mollies, 2 ocellaris, 1 neon cleaner goby.

I've had my Royal Gramma about 6 months, and he's had boughts of damaging himself, he's pretty skittish, so I think he darts quickly into rocks and hurts himself. I noticed on Saturday his face appeared to be falling off - his jaw appears to have broken, and his nose appears to be gone. I had ordered kanaplex which was expected to arrive sunday but amazon bait and switched me and now doesn't get here until tuesday, but was able to pick up some erythromycin and dosed in alignment w/ Humble fish as I read here (https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/can-api-erythromycin-be-added-to-food.9561/). I can't quite seem to find equivalent issues on any of the forums, but I dosed 10 grams of food with 0.033 grams of erythromycin in the hopes of helping him stave off infection while he heals, if he can heal, planning a course for 7-10 days, w hich means i'll probably need to make some more of the mixture. Breaking the tank seems like it's going to be incredibly difficult to do - and would do it if absolutely necessary, and i could put him in QT (which makes me think I answered my own question). Otherwise he's eating and behaving as he always has. I've included some pictures but it's very difficult to get them more in focus, so hopefully these are helpful enough.

I don't want to put him through any unecessary pain or stress, and would put him down if his prognosis isn't good, but thought i'd post in the event anyone has suggestions, or if this helps anyone else in the future. Appreciate anyone who is willing to help out

First, did this show up suddenly, or over time? The pictures are a bit far away for me to see clearly, but if it developed over time, it could be head and lateral line erosion. If it showed up over less than say, a week's time, then it is more likely injury/infection related.

Erythromycin can be dosed orally, but the dose is 100 mg per KG of fish body weight. You cannot just soak food in it, as you won't know the dose being delivered.

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

Here is the thing though - erythromycin can easily be added to the water (I've even dosed it in display tanks, but a treatment tank would be better). Since this is clearly an external problem, an antibiotic bath is going to work better than an oral medication would anyways. The dose for that is easier to calculate - just use the label directions.

That said, Erythromycin is primarily used against gram positive bacteria, and almost all external bacterial infections of fish are caused by gram negative bacteria.

Jay

 

[Ocellaris40]

First, did this show up suddenly, or over time? The pictures are a bit far away for me to see clearly, but if it developed over time, it could be head and lateral line erosion. If it showed up over less than say, a week's time, then it is more likely injury/infection related.

Erythromycin can be dosed orally, but the dose is 100 mg per KG of fish body weight. You cannot just soak food in it, as you won't know the dose being delivered.

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

Here is the thing though - erythromycin can easily be added to the water (I've even dosed it in display tanks, but a treatment tank would be better). Since this is clearly an external problem, an antibiotic bath is going to work better than an oral medication would anyways. The dose for that is easier to calculate - just use the label directions.

That said, Erythromycin is primarily used against gram positive bacteria, and almost all external bacterial infections of fish are caused by gram negative bacteria.

Jay

Appreciate the response, Jay. I would say this developed in under a week. I had considered dosing per instructions directly to the DT but I had concerns about it stressing or killing corals/inverts, or otherwise obliterating the biological filter, so went the food route, but point taken, it makes sense you wouldn't know how much the "patient" received.

 

[Ocellaris40]

Ok just to follow up here. Gramma is still alive and looking better. I ended up dosing the entire tank 1x with Erythromyacin (following Jay's guidance above), 25% water change, then did 2 rounds of Kanaplex which has finally showed up. Still active, eating, if disfigured. Hopefully He survives. The onebenefit of all of this was how it cleaned up a cyano problem I had, so... that's cool.