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Running UV without the housing?
- Thread starter JoJosReef
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You can make a blanket statement about the use of a UV outside the housing. It's why they are designed the way they are.Naturally, I want to do it. I have dinos I'd like to get rid of. Whether efficacy drops to nil without the housing and pump, I don't know. If the downsides of running the bulb in the chamber are very low compared to the upside of it having some effect, I would just leave it on over the weekend. However, if the downsides include any notable damage to the AIO chamber, I'd say that's a No-Go. I still don't think we have a material answer to that question.
I don't think we can make a blanket statement about the efficacy of the unit outside of the housing. Sure, it brings the water and microbes closer to the bulb. It pumps the water through slower than the overflow passes the water so that it has longer contact. But that proximity MAY not be necessary. I run UV lights in my laminar flow hoods for sterilization:
This is, of course different. The matrix is air and not saltwater. The microbes are constantly exposed instead of briefly and repeatedly. But they certainly aren't very close to the bulb.
I've been running the bulb free of the housing for about 4 hours today. The tank has gone from something like this (earlier picture, it was covering all parts of the glass today):
to this currently:
I don't know if this is a temporary effect from blowing off the rocks/scaping the glass, or if the UV is having an effect. The last time I blew off the dinos, it reformed and settled again rapidly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is it wise to do this? No, probably not wise to stray from manufacturer's instructions. Is it reckless? That, I don't know and was hoping to be informed.
I think this discussion has led me to turn it off over the weekend just to be safe. So this is not a "validate my position // do it anyway" post. I appreciate everyone's input and offers for help!
Except that several people have said it could be damaging - but (and I accept his decision) the Op has said 'he just wants to do it'. I'm not sure what the question was for
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JoJosReef
There's some lovely filth down here!
If you have any supporting information about the effectiveness of the UV bulbs inside vs. outside of the housing, you are welcome to provide it. But that isn't the point of this thread. I asked one question in the original post:
Anyone know if leaving this running in the chamber over the weekend will cause notable damage to the chamber or back glass?
So far no one has been able to answer the question. That's fine. Was a long shot that someone has the expertise or personal experience to know the answer. Two responders, at least, have tried to present enough background to make a conservative decision on whether or not to run the UV bulb over the weekend in the AIO chamber.
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JoJosReef
There's some lovely filth down here!
That is false. One person has said it could damage the plastic and provided a reference. One concurred. Three have said that it can damage my eyes and skin, which I figured was obvious from the beginning. You concurred with the first responder who commented on the risk of UV to the user.
You ignored the question in my original post, so I assume you're here to make a point about someone "just wanting to do it". Well done, then. Pat on the back. You made a grand "Gotcha!" whilst providing zero substantive evidence or credentials on the subject.
You stated before that it will not be effective without the housing but provided no evidence. IM sells two types of sterilizers:
mine - https://www.innovative-marine.com/s...erilizer-Water-Clarifier-Universal-p184825923
which uses a pump and tight housing, and
https://www.innovative-marine.com/s...tt-UV-Sterilizer-Clarifier-Midsize-p184826964a gravity fed unit that passes water through, presumably, at the rate of the return pump.
Notably, the housing of both my unit and the gravity unit isn't much smaller than the IM Nuvo 10 overflow chamber itself--it's a very snug fit.
Free bulb sterilizers are also sold, as another responder has linked out.
So why should I take your word for it?
To be fair, the question was specifically to know if the UV bulb without housing would damage the AIO chamber of the tank if run over the weekend. Of course I want to use the UV sterilizer to clear dinos. That is its purpose. The question was to know whether using the bulb without the housing over the weekend would harm my tank. I still do not have an answer to that question. I turned it off just in case. Hopefully we can have a more productive and agreeable exchange next time.
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JoJosReef
There's some lovely filth down here!
Noted with thanks!
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JoJosReef
There's some lovely filth down here!
I don't know if we are able to change titles of a thread, but a more specific title like "Will running UV without protective housing damage tank in the short term" might help. Moot point, probably. UV is off now and by the time I'm back on Monday I'll either have a serious dino issue requiring new equipment and interventions or it will have been resolved and I won't have to worry about it till next time.
Jimbo327
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Just put PVC around the bulb (as loose as that back chamber will allow), that should protect any light hitting the tank if that is your concern.
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JoJosReef
There's some lovely filth down here!
Might be even simpler than that. The unit comes with two housings. The internal one that fits tight around the bulb and the external one where the water flows out, which is basically a grey PVC tube. Then the thing works exactly as their gravity unit.
Don’t fear the reefer
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Light travels in a straight line in all directions from its source. So that’s a sphere. Surface area of a sphere is 4(pi)r2. So the intensity of light falls by 1/r2. Also UVC is completely absorbed in 0.1mm of skin and is not ionizing. Finally the amount of UVC produced by an Amazon UVC bulb is maybe 4% or 5% of the total bulb wattage. What’s the wattage of the IM bulb, maybe 10W? So on a good day you get like 50k uW at bulb surface but only like 0.4 uW is going to hit your eye from a meter away (1 cm2/(4(pi)(100cm)^2)*50k).
And that’s in a vacuum. In saltwater it collides with a million other microbes and minerals. (Which is the point.) This all means it is only effective at harming or killing pelagic dinos at close range. Beyond a few inches it’s all scattered and depleted.
It also means it’s not going to harm you at all unless your stare at it or handle it while it’s turned on.
Can it damage your plastic tank parts? Yes, eventually. Its weak penetration range will degrade plastics over time by destroying the polymer bonds. I don’t know the measurements for this effect. But I sincerely doubt you’ll notice anything at all from a 48-hour stretch over the weekend from such a weak lamp.
Do you know what material is on the inside of the IM lamp casing? That may give us a clue to how these hobby devices hold up long-term.
And that’s in a vacuum. In saltwater it collides with a million other microbes and minerals. (Which is the point.) This all means it is only effective at harming or killing pelagic dinos at close range. Beyond a few inches it’s all scattered and depleted.
It also means it’s not going to harm you at all unless your stare at it or handle it while it’s turned on.
Can it damage your plastic tank parts? Yes, eventually. Its weak penetration range will degrade plastics over time by destroying the polymer bonds. I don’t know the measurements for this effect. But I sincerely doubt you’ll notice anything at all from a 48-hour stretch over the weekend from such a weak lamp.
Do you know what material is on the inside of the IM lamp casing? That may give us a clue to how these hobby devices hold up long-term.
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Same light same tank. You can see the glow. I had it buried in there which was the best spot. I screwed up and had it near the skimmer and it deformed the skimmer. No damage to tank or anything else, just the skimmer. Regarding if it worked… no clue. This has since become a hospital tank.
I guess the reason I answered the way I did, is that it's the answer I thought was correct - it was not meant to be a gotcha. The issue was that you asked several people and the vast majority disagreed with you - as you said for various reasons. The point I was trying to make is that why risk taking a chance since (as you posted in your OP and again above) - its unlikely than anyone here knows exactly what plastic, silicone etc is used in your exact tank.
By the way - it's obvious that you did call the company and talk to them about the issue - I merely also made the suggestion that you get in touch with them. I'll say it again perhaps more clearly, there doesn't seem to be any reason to risk your tank or fish using a 'treatment' thats extremely unlikely to be effective unless you can get a 'for sure' answer - which no one here has provided. The 'for sure' answer would come from the company.
I personally also avoid making changes to a tank - then leaving them on their own for any length of time - so - I also disagreed with that part of it.
Again - I apologize if I offended you - however, you asked a question and I tried to give you my honest opinion.
PS - and I'm not trying to debate you - it's common knowledge that the effectiveness of UV in saltwater relates to the closeness to the bulb of the parasite/algae in the water. The product you are using is obviously designed to be used in such a way that water is running at an appropriate flow rate at an appropriate distance from the light. The other light you're discussing without a housing - is cheap - possibly not that helpful - or much stronger than usually used. But - we were talking about your model, in either case. I hope your Dino situation clears up.
Jimbo327
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Most polymers will degrade under UV, just a matter of time. The better resistance, the longer it will take. Unless you buy specific UV resistant material that have the stabilizers, you can find the general guidance on material vs. UV resistance in the table below. Obviously, you have to use common sense, don't look at it without UV glasses...etc etc.
Here is a table of the UV resistance.
https://omnexus.specialchem.com/polymer-property/uv-light-resistance
Like I said, I would not just put it in the back chamber. I would either use the orginal housing or a PVC pipe, since they are cheap and easy to replace. It has fair/good UV resistance. You can toss and replace.
Here is a table of the UV resistance.
https://omnexus.specialchem.com/polymer-property/uv-light-resistance
Like I said, I would not just put it in the back chamber. I would either use the orginal housing or a PVC pipe, since they are cheap and easy to replace. It has fair/good UV resistance. You can toss and replace.
WaterBox INFINIA Frag 155
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I work with UVC and this is extremely dumb. You will really damage plastic after only 1 day of exposure. Try yourself with white bits of plastic you have lying around and watch it turn brown as the radiation attacks the molecules. UVC damages DNA so even exposing skin to it will increase your chance of getting cancer or give you cancer right there and then if you are unlucky. It's crazy that these things are allowed to be sold with just a warning sticker like a powerbank
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