Salt Levels?

[BeejReef]

Short story, I was stuck in "am I consuming more alk than calc" debate. Dosing Kalkwasser, getting near 500ppm calcium and 6dkh. Verdict is still out on tank's consumption, but I tested a new batch of salt (IORC). At 35ppt, it was 490 calcium and 8.2 alkalinity!

Perhaps it was a bad batch, but point being, I researched further and compared the advertised parameters contrasted to what the community accepts as "balanced." What gives? Why do so few of the major brands fall in the balanced range?

For example, I can't even dose up my water to balanced, without pushing it to 17dkh. That might be fine for 10% weekly, but if I ever had an urgent need, I'd spike my tank 3-4 DKH

source for salt parameters:
That Pet Place's Salt Mixing Guide. - https://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide
Likely a touch dated and not 100%, but it tells a pretty good story.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I see no reason that “balanced” levels should be a goal. Target them independently to levels you want.

IMO, calcium can range from 400 to 550 ppm with Reef aquaria not “caring” what the exact level is.

 

[melanotaenia]

Top Marin Pro has close to NSW levels, my buckets test consistently 420-440 Calcium and 7-7.5 DKH. That table is wrong because Tropic Marin does not advertise DKH levels above 8.

 

[BeejReef]

FWIW, I see no reason that “balanced” levels should be a goal. Target them independently to levels you want.

IMO, calcium can range from 400 to 550 ppm with Reef aquaria not “caring” what the exact level is.

Ty Randy,

Quick follow up. <1 yr tank, have had early success w Limewater and "balanced" additions of calc/alk.
TBH, calc was so stable and pegged to dkh, I got lax on testing it.

Used your Alkalinity Recipe #2 to solo dose alk for four days to get params back where I targeted. 9-9.5dkh and 425 calc.

How paramount is calcium stability? Does it need to be a rock like alk, or can I let it wander down from 450 to 400 over the course of a week before wc (and possible minor adjustment) drives it back up. I'm a one-head doser atm and would like to stay that way.

I suppose "balanced" means something to me only because I'd much prefer to stick with Limewater (or possibly carbocalcium in the future) for simplicity's sake. With the highly calcium enriched salts, I end up driving calcium beyond recommended ranges to maintain alk. Seems like as calcium gets more and more out of line, alkalinity drops.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I suppose "balanced" means something to me only because I'd much prefer to stick with Limewater (or possibly carbocalcium in the future) for simplicity's sake. With the highly calcium enriched salts, I end up driving calcium beyond recommended ranges to maintain alk. Seems like as calcium gets more and more out of line, alkalinity drops.

FWIW, limewater is not exactly balanced. It provides exactly 1 calcium for each carbonate formed from the hydroxide. But when deposited in the tank as calcium carbonate, a small fraction of the calcium is replaced by magnesium, and an even smaller fraction by strontium. So consumption is a little less than 1 calcium for each carbonate.

I used it by itself for20 years, and clearly saw the effect: calcium in the tank was higher than my salt mix. That’s part of why I picked the lower calcium mix (normal IO) for my tank. The calcium never got above 500 ppm, but stabilized well above the IO.

 

[User1]

So to piggy back a question since I'm in a similar boat with ALK showing signs of consumption faster (if that is the correct word) than Cal/Mag. You can dose ALK on its own?

I was considering trying limewater/Mrs. Wages in my auto top off but think it may drive my calcium higher. I have B-Ionic Cal and Alk bottles so was thinking about just using the Alk part. Then I was considering getting the ESV 2 part.

I'm starting to see an aggressive corriline algae grown along with some growth on my test corals and clam. For some dumb reason I thought they all would show signs of consumption but the other two seem to hold steady.

Alk left to right is: 8.01and dropped to 7.8 and raised to 8.12 after I added 20 ml of B-Ionic last night. I forgot that increased ph(?).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So to piggy back a question since I'm in a similar boat with ALK showing signs of consumption faster (if that is the correct word) than Cal/Mag. You can dose ALK on its own?

I was considering trying limewater/Mrs. Wages in my auto top off but think it may drive my calcium higher. I have B-Ionic Cal and Alk bottles so was thinking about just using the Alk part. Then I was considering getting the ESV 2 part.

I'm starting to see an aggressive corriline algae grown along with some growth on my test corals and clam. For some dumb reason I thought they all would show signs of consumption but the other two seem to hold steady.

Alk left to right is: 8.01and dropped to 7.8 and raised to 8.12 after I added 20 ml of B-Ionic last night. I forgot that increased ph(?).

I don’t think it is really true that you are seeing alk depletion and not calcium, unless you are using a sulfur denitrator. It’s is a common statement folks make, but on careful, really careful, examination usually isn’t true.

Alk always drops faster on a percentage basis, and salt mixes often have excess calcium, even ones that seem high in alk.

That all said, if you want to dose just alk for whatever reason, that is fine.

 

[User1]

I don’t think it is really true that you are seeing alk depletion and not calcium, unless you are using a sulfur denitrator. It’s is a common statement folks make, but on careful, really careful, examination usually isn’t true.

Alk always drops faster on a percentage basis, and salt mixes often have excess calcium, even ones that seem high in alk.

That all said, if you want to dose just alk for whatever reason, that is fine.

I'm not using a denitrator. I'll keep an eye on it and see if I can get a better understanding then. I'm thinking calcium has to be consumed as I see the purple algae really starting to spread on the rocks. And the few sps type frags I have are starting to grow.

Sounds like my error and will need to do some more checks. Thanks again!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not using a denitrator. I'll keep an eye on it and see if I can get a better understanding then. I'm thinking calcium has to be consumed as I see the purple algae really starting to spread on the rocks. And the few sps type frags I have are starting to grow.

Sounds like my error and will need to do some more checks. Thanks again!

You’re welcome.

The coralline is s good sign!

Happy Reefing

 

[blasterman]

In young tanks, which this sounds like nothing is balanced because the biology's in play aren't consuming nutrients at a balanced rate. Your tank is not the Indian ocean...its a closed loop artificial ecosystem. Alk / Calcium consumption threads are dominated with the same advice that spawns from the dynamics of large SPS dominant tanks and in the case of most reefers this is not the case.

Amatuer salt mixes aren't designed to be balanced. They are designed so that you do a lot of water changes and buy more salt. I saw a picture some years ago that broke down the ingredients in a commercial salt mix in relative piles with the generic name of the ingredients and it was eye opening. Wish I had the link.

Calcium, in my experience has a wide envelope in a reef tank without dire effects, and it takes a *lot* of SPS or heavy coraline to deplete it on a weekly basis. Alk on the other hand can get problematic in a period of days in younger tanks and needs to be kept an eye on if you have SPS. Trying to correct alk with water changes in my opinion is like trying to nail jell-o to a wall.

Agree with Randy - growing coralline is always a good sign.

 

[BeejReef]

Ty Randy

Yeah, to all who responded, I think we have similar concerns. I'd like to dose relatively balanced alk and calc (accepting infrequent adjustment as the trade off).

However, given (as Randy explains) that the chemical intricacies typically result in apparent faster alk demand, I feel like many of the brands have it backwards.

Would it not make more sense to target higher alk than calc? Maybe 9.5 dkh and 425 calc?

Seems like average Joe reefer could get by a lot longer w out having to make adjustments.