Should i carbon dose

[Mattm83]

I am having issues with my levels phosphate was sitting at 0 for a long while and nitrates at 5 ammonia got up to 1.0. everything was loosing colour.
I have since bought some nitrogen and phos to dose with as well as adding bacteria asif it was anew cycling tank at 5ml per day. Phosphate now at 0.5 nitrate constantly sitting around 6 to 7. Doesn't matter how much nitrate I add it doesn't go any higher. Currently adding enough to raise nitrate 3 per day
My ammonia doesn't get bellow.0.3 even with water changes and the bacteria.
Something isn't right bacteria and cycle wise. Should I start carbon dosing to help the bacteria if so sugar or vodka? Or am I missing something.

 

[flyingscampi]

Carbon dosing fuels the growth of bacteria in the water column that absorb nutrients, this bacteria is then removed by the skimmer, exporting nutrients from your system. This bacteria is different to the 'cycling' bacteria that lives on rocks and substrate. Dosing nitrogen and phosphate puts the nutrients back in, so you are talking about two opposing actions.

Your nitrate and phosphate levels (6-7 & 0.5) are within the recommended levels. If your tank has been starved of nutrients, it might be making up for lost time...

The presence of nitrate usually indicates the tank is cycled. Are you using an API test kit for Ammonia? There are lots of threads on here about how the API kit misleads people by always showing ammonia.

I've only been reefing just over a year, so take my advice with a pinch of salt...

 

[BanjoBandito]

How old is the tank? @flyingscampi is correct, carbon dosing is not going to increase your nutrient levels. The easy answer is feed more.

API test kits seem to always register ".25 of ammonia" and theres a difference between "bad ammonia" and "good ammonia" in a reef system. I wouldn't worry much about that if you aren't seeing problems.

It sounds like you are still in the cycling process? Sometimes you just gotta let it happen. Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

 

[Mattm83]

Carbon dosing fuels the growth of bacteria in the water column that absorb nutrients, this bacteria is then removed by the skimmer, exporting nutrients from your system. This bacteria is different to the 'cycling' bacteria that lives on rocks and substrate. Dosing nitrogen and phosphate puts the nutrients back in, so you are talking about two opposing actions.

Your nitrate and phosphate levels (6-7 & 0.5) are within the recommended levels. If your tank has been starved of nutrients, it might be making up for lost time...

The presence of nitrate usually indicates the tank is cycled. Are you using an API test kit for Ammonia? There are lots of threads on here about how the API kit misleads people by always showing ammonia.

I've only been reefing just over a year, so take my advice with a pinch of salt...

Thanks for the response. I understand what you are saying but I have been dosing nitrate now for 2 week an amount that should be 2 or 3 raise per day in nitrate level. However this isn't the effect it's having.
Coral does seem happier and I understand they are taking it up. Colour is slightly increasing. But I would have thought by now I'd have the nitrates up a lot higher from where they were.

 

[Mattm83]

How old is the tank? @flyingscampi is correct, carbon dosing is not going to increase your nutrient levels. The easy answer is feed more.

API test kits seem to always register ".25 of ammonia" and theres a difference between "bad ammonia" and "good ammonia" in a reef system. I wouldn't worry much about that if you aren't seeing problems.

It sounds like you are still in the cycling process? Sometimes you just gotta let it happen. Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

Tank is now 8 months old.
Hadapadtial crash after having to move house and a Diatomoutbreak as a result.
I tried feeding more and that's what caused the ammonia spike.
It's an aqua one ammonia test.

 

[Mattm83]

Tank is now 8 months old.
Hadapadtial crash after having to move house and a Diatomoutbreak as a result.
I tried feeding more and that's what caused the ammonia spike.
It's an aqua one ammonia test.

Also thebottle of nitrate and phos I have says if dosing doesn't raise level to use the reef micro fuel product as system is carbon limited which is why I thought they are referring to carbon dosing.

 

[Pkunk35]

I agree that carbon dosing would overall decrease nutrient,
There is some thought that the coral would consume that bacteria so some people very very lightly carbon dose for that effect,
But I agree with banjobandito that feeding more or perhaps even better if you can add fish, will give you results
What kind of coral do you keep?

 

[Timfish]

As mentioned above, feed more. As for carbon dosing or Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) it is badly misunderstood and it can promote pathogenic shifts in coral microbionmes and I would never use it. What saves people is cryptic sponges will process DOC 1000X faster than the bacterioplanktron in a mature system. As for ammonia It's been years since I've tested for it in nay of my systems and the research I've read it's preferable to nitrates as a nitrogen source for corals. Here's some links to I found greatly improved my understanding of microbiomes/holobionts and nutrient proscesses in reef systems.

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Mattm83]

I agree that carbon dosing would overall decrease nutrient,
There is some thought that the coral would consume that bacteria so some people very very lightly carbon dose for that effect,
But I agree with banjobandito that feeding more or perhaps even better if you can add fish, will give you results
What kind of coral do you keep?

Currently have mostly sps 4 euphilia 4 goniopora 3 alveopora 2toadstools 1 is a frag 7 zoa frags and 2 acropora. With 8 fish in a 40 gallon tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Also thebottle of nitrate and phos I have says if dosing doesn't raise level to use the reef micro fuel product as system is carbon limited which is why I thought they are referring to carbon dosing.

I do not think that sentence makes any sense at all. Ignore it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am having issues with my levels phosphate was sitting at 0 for a long while and nitrates at 5 ammonia got up to 1.0. everything was loosing colour.
I have since bought some nitrogen and phos to dose with as well as adding bacteria asif it was anew cycling tank at 5ml per day. Phosphate now at 0.5 nitrate constantly sitting around 6 to 7. Doesn't matter how much nitrate I add it doesn't go any higher.

Can you clarify that you mean phosphate was undetectable and then jumped way up to 0.5 ppm, which is quite high?