SICK TANK
- Thread starter Zeezah
- Start date
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Yes I read this yesterday after my original post. My plan is to remove the Trigger into a temp tank for the treatment period then return him to the 30 Gal or whatever is biggest at the time. I do have purchase plans for either a 100 gal or larger either a 150 or 175 to replace my 55gal. At which point I could return my Niger to the " display tank" or place him in the next largest we own 55gal... I am going to leave the 30 Gal Fallow for 90 days and either leave them in the 30gal or move the inverts to the 55gal (after the wrasse finds a new home).
I have 8 pieces of live rock in the 30 gal now and was going to take one or two of the larger rocks into what my temp sick tank. Once I get the big display tank and can move the Wrasse out of the 55Gal, I can use the 55gal for whatever I get. Then use the 30 Gal as the Hospital tank with that rock. I have two filters running now. One I got with the tank that was simply inadequate Aquenon and a second Aquenon that is designed for a larger range of tank think up to a 55gal. Figured to run both until we could add a protein skimmer.
Wow, you have quite the situation going on here.
- First, what are your parameters?
- How new was the tank before adding the four original damsels?
- You mentioned that you drained your tank and scrubbed and dried out the live rock. This likely killed all the beneficial bacteria that colonize the rock / sand / other surfaces. If this is the case, you are back to square one. Remove all livestock and use whatever method you prefer to get your tank cycled. If you use bacteria in a bottle, some (or many) will say you can add fish right away assuming you don't already have sky high ammonia levels (see the first question above about parameters). With the amount of die-off in the tank, it is likely your ammonia is very high.
- A 30 gallon tank is obscenely small for a Sailfin Tang and/or Niger Trigger. I know you said you plan to upgrade, but upgrading will take at least a month (to allow the tank to cycle). While this is temporary, the small tank combined with what is probably high levels of ammonia and nitrite and the parasites is extremely cruel to the fish.
- Any fish store that says one week is enough time to go fallow to allow all bacteria to die is a fish store that doesn't deserve your business. As others have stated, 60 to 90 days is generally the ideal time to go fallow if you want to completely be sure you are free from parasites.
I'd recommend doing more homework before buying any other livestock. This site has tons of great articles about the basics of keeping saltwater fish. I'd also recommend the BRS-TV series on YouTube to learn more about the basics too.
- First, what are your parameters?
- How new was the tank before adding the four original damsels?
- You mentioned that you drained your tank and scrubbed and dried out the live rock. This likely killed all the beneficial bacteria that colonize the rock / sand / other surfaces. If this is the case, you are back to square one. Remove all livestock and use whatever method you prefer to get your tank cycled. If you use bacteria in a bottle, some (or many) will say you can add fish right away assuming you don't already have sky high ammonia levels (see the first question above about parameters). With the amount of die-off in the tank, it is likely your ammonia is very high.
- A 30 gallon tank is obscenely small for a Sailfin Tang and/or Niger Trigger. I know you said you plan to upgrade, but upgrading will take at least a month (to allow the tank to cycle). While this is temporary, the small tank combined with what is probably high levels of ammonia and nitrite and the parasites is extremely cruel to the fish.
- Any fish store that says one week is enough time to go fallow to allow all bacteria to die is a fish store that doesn't deserve your business. As others have stated, 60 to 90 days is generally the ideal time to go fallow if you want to completely be sure you are free from parasites.
I'd recommend doing more homework before buying any other livestock. This site has tons of great articles about the basics of keeping saltwater fish. I'd also recommend the BRS-TV series on YouTube to learn more about the basics too.
urban coral farmer
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Ornery? Im trying to save the fish that you are gas chambering. You need to freshen up on basics before your try to shove big boy fish in a prison cell.
Agree wholeheartedly with this comment. He asks for our help and then says you are ornery... gotta love it
urban coral farmer
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Hes being a jerk which is fine. Honestly the advice given here has been solid. At this point the balls in his court to accept it as truth and fallow the guidelines. He needs Accept the fact there is no easy way to fix this and just fallow the steps that are laid out by these nice folks. And if he can not or will not then i strongly suggest he picks another hobby before he spend to much money and gets frustrated and gives it up.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Folks, let’s keep this civil.
These new pictures indicate velvet. Remove and treat that fish with copper as soon as possible. A freshwater dip would be a good idea, follow the link in the precious post on treating. This is DEFINITELY velvet. Unfortunately if you don’t act yesterday this fish will be a goner. What you see on the outside is usually minor compared to how badly the gills are infested.
@HotRocks discovered the Hanna copper checker which would be a fantastic investment here. Run this tank fishless for 76 days and quarantine fish properly before adding more for best results.
Sorry for the trouble I know this is not fun!
First thank you all for you expertise and advise. I am truly a novice at this but do so love my fish. I don't believe this particular CS REP at my LFS was trying to dupe me into buying a fish, I think he is just as uneducated as I am about saltwater fish. It was stupid and impulsive on my part. Unfortunately they are the only fish store I have access to as we live in a landlocked community (the only way in or out is by boat or plane). I can order fish online but that can be an even worse guessing game. I checked for all of the treatments listed above at my LFS and they have NONE ON THE SHELVES nor slots for them. I did purchase and have dosed my tank with the following: Imagitarium Bio Booster, API Stress Coat + and API Pimafix and have ordered Seachem Cupramine Copper 100ml from a store in Cali and hope to have it buy the weekend but that maybe a long shot. I have discovered a store in another city close by that is not a chain pet store like what we have here and it specializes in aquatics. I am waiting to hear back from them to see if they have anything to help but haven't heard back from them.
As of this morning, my Sailfin looks worse and is breathing heavily, I think she may have a sore on her mouth and again did not eat.
Well before I could finish typing this she was gone. I took a few pictures of her this morning (attached) and by the time I got my kids napping she was dead. Will continue to treat my Niger Trigger even though he isn't showing any signs of illness. He is however still hanging out on the bottom of the aquarium he is breathing normally and fluttering his fins but it has been a few day since I have seen him swim around and he is not eating. I picked up the Face Mask decoration he was under to assure he was still alive and he hung on until I put the decoration back down. At which point he let go and moved to where he is now (attached another pic). Can anyone chime in on what maybe going on with my Trigger?
Thanks Again
These new pictures indicate velvet. Remove and treat that fish with copper as soon as possible. A freshwater dip would be a good idea, follow the link in the precious post on treating. This is DEFINITELY velvet. Unfortunately if you don’t act yesterday this fish will be a goner. What you see on the outside is usually minor compared to how badly the gills are infested.
@HotRocks discovered the Hanna copper checker which would be a fantastic investment here. Run this tank fishless for 76 days and quarantine fish properly before adding more for best results.
Sorry for the trouble I know this is not fun!
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MamaLovesHerReefTank
Well-Known Member
+1. You need to treat these fish now not later. Velvet can kill all your fish pretty quickly. Trust me I've been there and watched most of my fish die one by one because I didn't act quick enough. Another bit of advice that Bruce already mentioned... don't go back to that lfs.
oceaninabox12345
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So from what i can tell what happened is the orignal Damsels had a disease, and then the tang and trigger got it by being in that tank, and now the other tank the triggerfish is currently in probably has it as well. If this happens again, I'd try to contain it to as few tanks as possible. Does the triggerfish have any white dots on it? Or is that just something on the glass? Cant tell. Im so sorry this is happening!
ilyad
Active Member
I know a lot of people jumped on your neck in here, but dont take it personally, everyone here is super dedicated to their pet fish, corals, and all inverts so they were probably upset about the response rate (Im guessing). That being said, I hope that this doesnt keep you away from the hobby, but at the same time I hope you do very extensive research before moving forward.
First, I hope everyone makes it!.
Second, if you havent already, check out the forums myself and others linked earlier (Fish Disease, Diagnosing, Setting up QT) to find out as much as possible about setting up a hospital tank, as that is your first and foremost priority to try and save the fish.
Third, read about disease treatment (especially Velvet - as its been diagnosed by @4FordFamily who is extremely knowledgeable), and purchase what you need. If you are not already familiar with it, there are two major online vendors (Bulk Reef Supply and Marine Depot) that carry almost anything you can imagine for the reefing hobby, offer them at lowest prices anywhere, and ship fast! You've mentioned that you are in an area that is not around many local fish stores (or at least good ones). If that's the case, always plan ahead and get your treatment and dosing supplies from vendors online. To be frank, although I have some good stores near me, I often buy dry goods for the tank through those online vendors because its so easy, but I have to plan ahead for that.
Fourth, ask questions about the treatment process in the Fish Disease forum - you'll typically get more helpful responses there when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. However, be warned that if you ask, and you get information from people who have been doing this for a long time, they will not put up with too much talk back in the form of "well, Im going to do this instead." Many are considered pretty much experts in this area or have been a hobbyist with decades of experience, so when they take the time to reply and give advise, they are doing it with the mindset that is best for the critter (whether it be fish, invert, or coral). And for what it's worth, it probably a good idea to heed their advice.
Fifth, if you stick with this hobby, I can make 2 very major recommendations: 1. read, read, read, and 2. patience. Let me elaborate. Before buying a fish or coral, its very good practice to read as much as possible about it from books, forums, and any other place. Dont just take the LFS employee's response as final, unless you've double checked their responses independently in the past and found that they are knowledgeable in the field. Less that, always do your own research, and the more the better. On top of specific research, just reading through this forum sticky pages or other help request pages, you'll learn a great deal of info. That is all knowledge that will sooner or later be put to the test in this hobby. And finally, patience; this hobby requires a great deal of it. Nothing good in this hobby happens fast. For example, proper treatment of fish can take weeks, establishing a proper eco system in the tank weeks to months, corals grow at mm's a month, etc, etc, you get the point. On the other hand, bad things can turn worse in a matter of hours.
If you have to restart, that is ok, just slow down and learn first, then give it a shot again.
So, be patient, be methodical, be educated, be prepared in what you do in this hobby and it'll reward you extremely.
EDIT: As to what Urban Coral Farmer was talking, I think I can clarify. Rock and sand absorbs medications and then leeches them back out. Because of that you have to be careful never to use rock or sand that was in a QT or hospital tank again in one of your "Display" tanks. Also, because rock and sand absorb medication, dosing accurately is a challenge. Most people who set up a QT/Hospital tank will not use sand or rock at all (unless its a specific fish species that absolutely requires it). Instead they use some large PVC fittings (Corner, Tripples, etc) to create hiding spots for fish, which allows for more accurate dosing of meds and easier to clean after. However, if you go that route (no sand, or rock), you have to make sure you have enough correct bacteria available to sustain the tank and keep ammonia from spiking. This can be achieved with sponges that are either established for some time from a display tank, or by adding Dr. Tim's bacteria to it. This is just general issues to watch for... a lot more details and info is around regarding setting up a Hospital tank.
First, I hope everyone makes it!.
Second, if you havent already, check out the forums myself and others linked earlier (Fish Disease, Diagnosing, Setting up QT) to find out as much as possible about setting up a hospital tank, as that is your first and foremost priority to try and save the fish.
Third, read about disease treatment (especially Velvet - as its been diagnosed by @4FordFamily who is extremely knowledgeable), and purchase what you need. If you are not already familiar with it, there are two major online vendors (Bulk Reef Supply and Marine Depot) that carry almost anything you can imagine for the reefing hobby, offer them at lowest prices anywhere, and ship fast! You've mentioned that you are in an area that is not around many local fish stores (or at least good ones). If that's the case, always plan ahead and get your treatment and dosing supplies from vendors online. To be frank, although I have some good stores near me, I often buy dry goods for the tank through those online vendors because its so easy, but I have to plan ahead for that.
Fourth, ask questions about the treatment process in the Fish Disease forum - you'll typically get more helpful responses there when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. However, be warned that if you ask, and you get information from people who have been doing this for a long time, they will not put up with too much talk back in the form of "well, Im going to do this instead." Many are considered pretty much experts in this area or have been a hobbyist with decades of experience, so when they take the time to reply and give advise, they are doing it with the mindset that is best for the critter (whether it be fish, invert, or coral). And for what it's worth, it probably a good idea to heed their advice.
Fifth, if you stick with this hobby, I can make 2 very major recommendations: 1. read, read, read, and 2. patience. Let me elaborate. Before buying a fish or coral, its very good practice to read as much as possible about it from books, forums, and any other place. Dont just take the LFS employee's response as final, unless you've double checked their responses independently in the past and found that they are knowledgeable in the field. Less that, always do your own research, and the more the better. On top of specific research, just reading through this forum sticky pages or other help request pages, you'll learn a great deal of info. That is all knowledge that will sooner or later be put to the test in this hobby. And finally, patience; this hobby requires a great deal of it. Nothing good in this hobby happens fast. For example, proper treatment of fish can take weeks, establishing a proper eco system in the tank weeks to months, corals grow at mm's a month, etc, etc, you get the point. On the other hand, bad things can turn worse in a matter of hours.
If you have to restart, that is ok, just slow down and learn first, then give it a shot again.
So, be patient, be methodical, be educated, be prepared in what you do in this hobby and it'll reward you extremely.
EDIT: As to what Urban Coral Farmer was talking, I think I can clarify. Rock and sand absorbs medications and then leeches them back out. Because of that you have to be careful never to use rock or sand that was in a QT or hospital tank again in one of your "Display" tanks. Also, because rock and sand absorb medication, dosing accurately is a challenge. Most people who set up a QT/Hospital tank will not use sand or rock at all (unless its a specific fish species that absolutely requires it). Instead they use some large PVC fittings (Corner, Tripples, etc) to create hiding spots for fish, which allows for more accurate dosing of meds and easier to clean after. However, if you go that route (no sand, or rock), you have to make sure you have enough correct bacteria available to sustain the tank and keep ammonia from spiking. This can be achieved with sponges that are either established for some time from a display tank, or by adding Dr. Tim's bacteria to it. This is just general issues to watch for... a lot more details and info is around regarding setting up a Hospital tank.
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