Slow declines in SPS, please advise me!

[dbrewsky]

Outdrsyguy1- I dont have anything turning off that would hold water log enough for stuff to break down like in the lines of your chiller. I actually do have 20 gallons of fresh sw mixing up as we speak and plan do a water change tomorrow.

Here is the link to my build thread if you are interested https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dbrewskys-4x4-display-frag-tank-build.190493/

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

well you can rule out a couple things possibly. Can you borrow a par meter from someone? Some companies also rent them for a mildly reasonable price. I don't know where the lights are now but that light looks really high off the water imo. Still seems weird about the STN from the bottom up. no chemicals or other things are being used in the room? (cleaning ladies or something?)
have you confirmed your alk test kit with another kit?

 

[that Reef Guy]

they may be out of the blue, but do you have any pumps/water flow that your apex turns on and off? This looks A LOT like a problem i had (bad colors, STN from the bottom up). I was turning my chiller pump on and off to run my chiller. Sometimes the chiller wouldn't run for a day and then when it did, it would blast my tank with amonia and such from all the dead stuff in the tubing and chiller reservoir. one time i turned it on to pump some water into a bucket, and it smelled like someone just smashed a rotton egg in my face. after i changed the flow to always on things got waaaayyy better for me.

When stuff goes bad for me, i go back to basics, 10-15% WC every week, no carbon, no gfo. Just skimmer, circulation, nutrients and light.

+1

That is Good Advice.

 

[Chaz D]

Since you're keeping good tabs on the alk, I'm guessing too much GFO or carbon...your tank looks too clean. I purposely don't run it for this reason on new tanks.

 

[hatfielj]

Everyone seems to be forgetting about pests as a possibility. In all of my years of reef keeping (only about 10 now actually), that has been the number 1 cause of SPS not doing well in my tanks. I've been through all of them (AEFW, Red Bugs, Monti eating Nudis, and I'm sure more I'm forgetting about). Yes, you need to make sure your parameters are decent and more importantly STABLE. But, if you haven't ruled out pests, you need to. I would recommend just emptying your tank of all SPS for a period of 4-6 weeks. Set up a QT and start dipping everything you bring home and keep it in QT for at least a week or two while doing several dips. Bayer seems to be pretty fool proof and I've had success with it personally.
The other thing you should check for immediately is something faulty with your equipment. I've seen plenty of instances where people have a broken heater leaching copper into the water or some other heavy metal coming from something that's fallen into the tank. I had a personal experience with an old tank of mine where a small electrical plug had fallen in my sump and was leaching heavy metals for weeks. I didn't discover it until I had become so frustrated with my tank I decided to tear it down and I found it while emptying out the tank!
Lighting and parameters don't tend to cause problems as quickly as you're seeing unless something is really out of whack.

 

[hatfielj]

Also, I probably missed this, but how old is the tank?
Are you seeing good coraline algae growth?
And I agree with backing off on the gfo and carbon, I've had it cause problems for me plenty of times (recently in fact). Only use that if you have a specific problem you're trying to address

 

[that Reef Guy]

Everyone seems to be forgetting about pests as a possibility. In all of my years of reef keeping (only about 10 now actually), that has been the number 1 cause of SPS not doing well in my tanks. I've been through all of them (AEFW, Red Bugs, Monti eating Nudis, and I'm sure more I'm forgetting about). Yes, you need to make sure your parameters are decent and more importantly STABLE. But, if you haven't ruled out pests, you need to. I would recommend just emptying your tank of all SPS for a period of 4-6 weeks. Set up a QT and start dipping everything you bring home and keep it in QT for at least a week or two while doing several dips. Bayer seems to be pretty fool proof and I've had success with it personally.
The other thing you should check for immediately is something faulty with your equipment. I've seen plenty of instances where people have a broken heater leaching copper into the water or some other heavy metal coming from something that's fallen into the tank. I had a personal experience with an old tank of mine where a small electrical plug had fallen in my sump and was leaching heavy metals for weeks. I didn't discover it until I had become so frustrated with my tank I decided to tear it down and I found it while emptying out the tank!
Lighting and parameters don't tend to cause problems as quickly as you're seeing unless something is really out of whack.

After you found the Plug and took it out how long did it take your Tank to get back to Normal?

 

[hatfielj]

Well, unfortunately I didn't continue with that tank. So, I have no idea. But, I can comment on a similar event that happened to my brother in law. His tank had a broken heater. Was leaching heavy metals into their tank for at least a few weeks before we discovered it. once we took it out, replaced it, and did a bunch of water changes, stuff started to recover pretty quickly. I'd say within another few weeks. It was amazing actually because many of his corals had turned white and looked like complete goners.

 

[that Reef Guy]

Well, unfortunately I didn't continue with that tank. So, I have no idea. But, I can comment on a similar event that happened to my brother in law. His tank had a broken heater. Was leaching heavy metals into their tank for at least a few weeks before we discovered it. once we took it out, replaced it, and did a bunch of water changes, stuff started to recover pretty quickly. I'd say within another few weeks. It was amazing actually because many of his corals had turned white and looked like complete goners.

Was the Rust on the Inside or was it Visible on the Outside of the Heater.

I am getting very concerned now.

I checked all my Heaters but None Show any Evidence of Rust on them.

How do you know that the Heaters were the Problem?

What Brand were they?

 

[hatfielj]

Because the glass of the heater was broken. There was bare metal in the water. We figured it out when we reached our hands in the sump and felt shocks!! If you can pick your heater up and visually inspect it without getting shocked, its probably fine;)

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

The first thing that stood out to me was your max intensity photo period. Our setups seems very similar, but I'm only running my Kessils 12" off the water, with a max intensity of 50%, and my max intensity only lasts 4 hours.

 

[Diesel]

Triton test will tell you if you got metals in your tank too.
Pest is a possibility but easy to find out by dipping your corals one by one.
Some GFO can go bad with to much dust that leach into your water and caused some stress on your corals.

 

[hybridazn]

I would check your par levels. Granted its a shallow tank but you have them 17" above the waterline. That's a lot of space. And I would also inspect for pests. Best of luck

 

[ronnie]

Take a turkey baster, turn off all flow, and then gently blow each acro. If you see clearish flat things flying off, then it's AEFW.

 

[TCK Corals Verified Sponsor]

Based on the images provided on the original post, as well as the provided test results (still get a secondary test done to rule out bad kits); your water may be "too clean" essentially starving the corals. The red flag being the fact that the corals are slowly declining over time, after ruling out specific gravity etc. (also judging by the lack of algae).

Is the tank being carbon dosed?

 

[that Reef Guy]

Because the glass of the heater was broken. There was bare metal in the water. We figured it out when we reached our hands in the sump and felt shocks!! If you can pick your heater up and visually inspect it without getting shocked, its probably fine;)

OK, I see.

I thought it was intact, working properly, and just sending stuff into the water from an area that was not sealed properly.

None of my Heaters are Cracked.

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

i had a tank that was too clean once and they corals also looked like yours, but I don't remember them having STN issues. The checking for pests was a good idea. look for flatworm bite marks when the lights are off at night (use a flashlight and look on the underside).
I did find that I had to take my gfo and carbon offline for a while and just feed like mad. One way I noticed was the tank had zero algae and anytime critters would die, my corals would color up. Like a fish died and I couldn't find him kind of thing, or I nuked the tank with interceptor to kill red bugs and bam corals start to color up.

 

[dbrewsky]

First and foremost, thank you everyone for your help! I have had bad experiences with some of the forums in the past, but this community is full of legitimate, good people!

Steps taken thus far:

-20 gallon water change
-reduced intensity from 77% max to 70%
-Started feeding fish more frequently and consistently dosing phyto/oyster eggs/ acropower/ reef roids roughly every three days.
-Stn seems to be slowing down, some of the lps seem to stay open a little longer now.
-I've checked all equipment for issues- all very new and clean so easy to inspect.
-I did have a sicce pump that froze up because of buildup on the impeller shaft. All pumps were cleaned.

Steps I plan to take:
-fully remove gfo and carbon from the system
-add more fish :)
-see if i can track down a par meter (easier said than done)
-order triton test kit
-test for stray voltage


I don't believe i'm seeing signs of aefw or red bugs.I have seen both in person in previous tanks so im familiar with the symptoms. I dip religiously and half the time i cut the frags off the original substrate and re-glue them on new ones. I am seeing some pieces with stn and burnt tips, I would say 3 of my acros have burnt tips.

I have little to no coraline growth, let alone algae. What coraline that does grow is the pea green type not the usual purple/pink. I can go two weeks before i would say i have a dusting of algae on the glass, and even then its so little that it doesn't really effect visibility. I have some hair algae that grows on some of the old coral skeletons or some of the zoas that have withered and are dying which i assume is feeding off nutrients from the animals.

I do plan to add additional fish, since i have nearly no bio load and the fish i do have are small. Could be worse problems to remedy ;)
I think i will order fish from a reputable online dealer from now on, I have had to do extensive hypo treatments for ich on the last few fish which has greatly increased the time it takes to make new additions.

 

[ronnie]

Take things slowly so you know exactly what helped. Do one thing, wait a few weeks, then try another. Changing a lot quickly will either mask what the problem is or exacerbate the issue by causing more trouble.

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

Your tank is definitely way to clean. I had a tank for 9 months that didn't grow algae or corraline alge and fed very lightly with a light bio load. I ran carbon and gfo like everyone else but my corals paled bad like yours. They'd grow a little when I first got them then fade and stop growing. I even killed gsp with lack of nutrients, crazy!

I took out carbon/gfo and fed like mad and my tank exploded with purple and the fish actually grew and matured lol. Things colored up and started doing better. Then hair algae explosion lol. Just gotta find that balance. And have a tang. Kole tang worked wonders for me. I'm still recovering but things are doing fantastic over the last 6 months. This pics about 3 months ago.