Small Flesh Bands...ideas?

[mythesis]

Our hammer seems to have beautiful polyps, but little to no flesh band. I tried to put some AB+ in a few times and the heads just ... fell off. It's a beautiful coral, but I assume it's not actually healthy because it's not growing and there's no visual flesh band from what I can tell. The polyps are almost recessed into the "trunk" of the structure.

Parameters:

Salinity : 1.025
Nitrates: ~20
Phosphates: ~0.1
Alk: 8.5, maintaining with AllForReef via dosing pump (~45 ml / day in a 90 gal)
Calcium: ~400-450
Magnesium: ~1200


Tank Pic:

Hammer:

Duncan Buddy:

Torch Buddy:

They all are typically beautifully extended...but not growing new heads in 1.5 years and flesh bands not particularly large.

 

[Rocks reef]

You are saying you've had them for 1.5 years with NO growth? Something seems off. The hammer you posted looks ok.
I'm not sure you parameters are correct, you have a lot of different types of nuisance algae growing and also quite a bit of sponge.

 

[mythesis]

You are saying you've had them for 1.5 years with NO growth? Something seems off. The hammer you posted looks ok.
I'm not sure you parameters are correct, you have a lot of different types of nuisance algae growing and also quite a bit of sponge.

That's correct. The duncan went from 3 heads to 6 in the first month or two, then stopped.

Torch hasn't grown a new head at all. Hammer has had several bail out, but no new ones.

All have been in the tank for over a year at this point.

I check Nitrates/Phosphates using Hanna Checkers. They are consistently those numbers.

I use Salifert for the other 3.


I wish the freaking sponges would go away.

I do 10-20 gal water changes occasionally (1.5x / mo?), but not religiously. It doesn't seem to affect much.

I have Chaeto in the sump. I run GFO & Carbon through BRS reactors.

Other than dosing the All For Reef, I also do Phyto every day from a culture.


Any ideas, I'd love to hear them!

 

[mythesis]

Important caveat: I've only been dosing & monitoring Alk for about the last 2-3 months. Prior to that I relied on Water Changes (but there weren't as many corals in the tank, just really the hammer/duncan/torch & some GSP).

 

[kevgib67]

Your parameters look good except for your magnesium. 1350 is what is recommended but my euphyllia thrive at 1400 or a little higher. That leaves flow and light. Moderate random flow and moderate par, 150-200.

 

[mythesis]

Your parameters look good except for your magnesium. 1350 is what is recommended but my euphyllia thrive at 1400 or a little higher. That leaves flow and light. Moderate random flow and moderate par, 150-200.

First, sorry you lost whatever bet you had that forces you to have those terrible gifs on your profile. Hopefully your penalty is almost over and you can remove them :)

I did recently lower flow & light. I think flow was cranked a little too high, and things seem to be a lot more "poofy" now that flow is less.

Similar with light. I turned them down to acclimate some new corals and everything seemed to be "relieved", so I just kept them lower in general now.



On Mag: I just got some mag supplement and will likely add some. I've noted Randy often states testing / dosing mag is really unreliable. So, I was waiting to see if the All-For-Reef would balance things out on its own. Looks like it's still a little low so I'll likely bump it up a bit

 

[kevgib67]

First, sorry you lost whatever bet you had that forces you to have those terrible gifs on your profile. Hopefully your penalty is almost over and you can remove them :)

I did recently lower flow & light. I think flow was cranked a little too high, and things seem to be a lot more "poofy" now that flow is less.

Similar with light. I turned them down to acclimate some new corals and everything seemed to be "relieved", so I just kept them lower in general now.



On Mag: I just got some mag supplement and will likely add some. I've noted Randy often states testing / dosing mag is really unreliable. So, I was waiting to see if the All-For-Reef would balance things out on its own. Looks like it's still a little low so I'll likely bump it up a bit

I know what Randy said and I don’t doubt him, his main concern is that the unreliability of mg tests but I know a lot of reefers who have experienced the same. @kingranch2003 keeps his at 1500 and swears by it. I wish you the best of luck, they are my favorite corals and it sounds like they are already turning around.

 

[kingranch2003]

I'd recommed raising mag. After talking to some of the nicer euphyllia dealers, most of them keep it over 1400. They claim that it will also reduce algae over time as well.
I was losing hammers as I added them to the tank and that's why I set out to learn why. The only thing I did was raise mag.

I completely understand what folks say about testing mag, but I see consistent numbers with consistent dosing. As I add corals. the consumption rate goes up. One time my son accidentally overdosed the tank with mag while he was helping me. I tested it and the reading was over 2000! So the test obviously saw that lol! Im only able to express to you what I've experienced and that's all im doing.

With that being said, Id bet mag isn't your only issue, if it even is one. In the pics, I see nuisance algae (we all have it, no judgement just saying) The duncan has several large vermetid snails directly under the receding heads. If we can see these, you can bet there's more. Do you ever see what resembles a slimy spiderweb rising from your rocks or coral? That is how they catch food from the water column and it will irritate the heck out of euphyllia. That makes sense as the tissue seems to be pulling in, or withdrawing rather than rotting or tearing away from bjd or too much flow.

Also what os going on with the frag plug that torch is on? It looks like an encrusted acro!

 

[mythesis]

Yes @kingranch2003, Vermatids are a problem. I've got about 20 bumblebees going after them. There are no "big" Vermatids and I almost never see the slime nets (if I ever do, I go in and snip off as much as I can and the bumbles converge there soon after)

Am I correct that the tiny stalks will be left behind after the bees get the Vermatids?

I've also added Pitho Crabs and Turbo Snails about 2 months ago to fight back the nuisance algae. They're making solid progress, but slow going.

I'll try to bump up magnesium next week, ordered stuff from BRS last week and need to mix it up first.

Thanks for the ideas!

 

[kingranch2003]

Yes @kingranch2003, Vermatids are a problem. I've got about 20 bumblebees going after them. There are no "big" Vermatids and I almost never see the slime nets (if I ever do, I go in and snip off as much as I can and the bumbles converge there soon after)

Am I correct that the tiny stalks will be left behind after the bees get the Vermatids?

I've also added Pitho Crabs and Turbo Snails about 2 months ago to fight back the nuisance algae. They're making solid progress, but slow going.

I'll try to bump up magnesium next week, ordered stuff from BRS last week and need to mix it up first.

Thanks for the ideas!

You're very welcome! Like anything in reefing of course, adjust slowly. IME the tubes have stayed after my bb snails wiped them out. Just give them time. Good call on the crabs, I had tremendous success with tux urchins as well for algae.

 

[mythesis]

It seems my sump is infested with them as well. Ideas to purge them out of there?

 

[viceversabrd]

Yeah I'd get Mag up to 1400+ asap as others have said, that can make a big difference with Euphylia. Also, you're going to need a buttload of it to go from 1200-1400. IME it takes a lot more than one would think. To your original question, I would guess the corals weren't getting the proper dkh/Ca/mg that they needed if you've had them for 18 months and started AFR 2-3 months ago. That leaves 15 months of relying on water changes ever 6 weeks ish for proper supplementation. I would guess that if you tested Ca or dkh during that time it would've been quite low thus restricting corals proper health. I gander that all that coralline would suck any dkh/Ca/Mg leaving none for the corals. Dosing and monitoring levels moving forward and you should be good to go.

 

[Boehmtown]

My hammers were happiest in about no no flow and very low light

 

[mythesis]

So, I got the 1 gal BRS Mix, which looks like it should raise it up.

Now that I'm dosing All For Reef, do you expect I'll need to bump Magnesium separately, or will the AFR dosing "keep up" once things are at the right level?


On the Coraline --- it *exploded* once I started dosing. So, yes, I'm sure my Alk was way too low for a long while and is only in the last little while at a place that will allow them to be healthier.


The crux of my question though --- once these params stabilize, will the Hammer grow a healthier "flesh band" on its own?

 

[mythesis]

Started raising up Mag slowly, and y'all inspired me. Did a 20 gal water change yesterday and spent about 20-30 mins picking at bubble/green hair algae. The turbo / urchin /pithos are making a dent, but may as well help them along!

Thanks all for the help.