Smite's Stout CDA - 205g Acropora dominant system 50x38x25"

[Smite]

Forgot I also added a new gonipora. This thing had some amazing blue tips in direct sunlight while dipping. pretty cool piece!

 

[Smite]

Those look great. Maricultured have always done great for me. They enjoy lots of light but even more stable water.
How did you end up dosing the pns

I dosed the bottles over the course of 2 days. EDIT: 1/2 bottle per day of ProBio and Substrate Sauce. I dosed in the beginning of the photoperiod so I could kill my skimmer and uv for 8 hours and let them take hold. I didn't want to drop ph or lose UV time on the free floating stage of dinos at night.

I've been hit or mis with the maricultured pieces. Specifically colonies, frags tend to do a little better for me though sometimes they just lock up for what seems like forever.

 

[VanDalsenReef]

The pns probio and subrate is interesting. But I also see you had a slight increase of phosphates. Probio is supposed to help with that, but maybe I'm wrong

 

[Smite]

This is a mariculture frag I bought from Tong's a few years back. It's started to turn around. Under my reefbrites this thing was insanely pink with blue tips under all blue XHO

. Hopefully I can get it back there.

 

[VanDalsenReef]

I dosed the bottles over the course of 2 days. EDIT: 1/2 bottle per day of ProBio and Substrate Sauce. I dosed in the beginning of the photoperiod so I could kill my skimmer and uv for 8 hours and let them take hold. I didn't want to drop ph or lose UV time on the free floating stage of dinos at night.

I've been hit or mis with the maricultured pieces. Specifically colonies, frags tend to do a little better for me though sometimes they just lock up for what seems like forever.

I always just "burn" them with light. Try and torch them and keep nitrates and phosphates close to zero. They've seemed to only brown a bit and then get better months later.

 

[Smite]

The pns probio and subrate is interesting. But I also see you had a slight increase of phosphates. Probio is supposed to help with that, but maybe I'm wrong

I believe the substrate sauce contains .03 of po4 in the bottle. I think that may have been part of the cause. Right now I'm welcoming the nutrients but questioning my tester right now. It's been between .07 - .22 in the last week bouncing around. I tested back to back and got similiar results each time so not sure whats up?

 

[Smite]

I always just "burn" them with light. Try and torch them and keep nitrates and phosphates close to zero. They've seemed to only brown a bit and then get better months later.

Good to know. I don't acclimate much, I place them where I want them and hope for the best mostly

 

[VanDalsenReef]

I believe the substrate sauce contains .03 of po4 in the bottle. I think that may have been part of the cause. Right now I'm welcoming the nutrients but questioning my tester right now. It's been between .07 - .22 in the last week bouncing around. I tested back to back and got similiar results each time so not sure whats up?

Sometimes it's the difference of just the water you catch at the time. If I get different numbers I just do three tests and take the average. Gives me an idea then. I wonder if it has po4 to help feed the bacteria for tanks using dry sand or dry rock

 

[VanDalsenReef]

Good to know. I don't acclimate much, I place them where I want them and hope for the best mostly

I used to acclimate but success rate was around 50/50 now it's closer to 80

 

[Smite]

Sometimes it's the difference of just the water you catch at the time. If I get different numbers I just do three tests and take the average. Gives me an idea then. I wonder if it has po4 to help feed the bacteria for tanks using dry sand or dry rock

I believe that's exactly why it's included in there.

 

[VanDalsenReef]

I believe that's exactly why it's included in there.

Which also means it should lower phosphates in an established system.

 

[Smite]

Vivid's Rainbow Delight coming out of a deep coma and showing hints of color

 

[Smite]

Which also means it should lower phosphates in an established system.

True if that's what it's eating to begin with! Good point

 

[Smite]

I'm gonna run a test post filter media from my sump. Maybe I'm trapping debris from my display

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I believe the substrate sauce contains .03 of po4 in the bottle. I think that may have been part of the cause. Right now I'm welcoming the nutrients but questioning my tester right now. It's been between .07 - .22 in the last week bouncing around. I tested back to back and got similiar results each time so not sure whats up?

Yes, this is correct. Specifically, it raises PO4 in the aquarium system by 0.03-0.05 ppm at full dose (the initial concentration in the growth medium--when the bacteria are first added--is a whopping 175 ppm, so difficult to end with a precise concentration). But it doesn't have to be super precise, the idea is that there is a slight excess as to provide all that is needed for a full cycle based on the typical dose of ammonia (so it's a Redfield thing). https://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/hydrospace/292054-using-pns-substrate-sauce-1.html

The idea is that most newly set-up, sterile systems with dry rock do not have sufficient phosphate to support the robust microbial growth we want during the cycling period. This product supplements that phosphate through the excess in the growth medium (basically, the growth medium is measured out in such a way that the bacteria run out of their nitrogen source and stop growing--a rather predictable amount of phosphate remains).

Just like the ammonia one uses as "fuel" when cycling a system, this small amount of phosphate will get used up after the bacteria (the PNS bacteria as well as nitrifying bacteria and all other bacteria) take it up as they grow.

After the cycling period over, we generally recommend switching to PNS ProBio, which contains no phosphate (nor nitrate). ProBio is made in a completely different way--to adapt the cultures for consuming detritus. That being said, we've seen people use Substrate Sauce in established systems for two reasons: (1) because they maintain a high density of corals in a chronically ULN system where PO4 addition is desirable, or (2) because they are battling dinos and believe that in addition to adding heterotrophic bacterial competitors, the extra PO4 helps to reverse the condition that allowed the dinos to proliferate in the first place.

 

[Smite]

Yes, this is correct. Specifically, it raises PO4 in the aquarium system by 0.03-0.05 ppm at full dose (the initial concentration in the growth medium--when the bacteria are first added--is a whopping 175 ppm, so difficult to end with a precise concentration). But it doesn't have to be super precise, the idea is that there is a slight excess as to provide all that is needed for a full cycle based on the typical dose of ammonia (so it's a Redfield thing). https://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/hydrospace/292054-using-pns-substrate-sauce-1.html

The idea is that most newly set-up, sterile systems with dry rock do not have sufficient phosphate to support the robust microbial growth we want during the cycling period. This product supplements that phosphate through the excess in the growth medium (basically, the growth medium is measured out in such a way that the bacteria run out of their nitrogen source and stop growing--a rather predictable amount of phosphate remains).

Just like the ammonia one uses as "fuel" when cycling a system, this small amount of phosphate will get used up after the bacteria (the PNS bacteria as well as nitrifying bacteria and all other bacteria) take it up as they grow.

After the cycling period over, we generally recommend switching to PNS ProBio, which contains no phosphate (nor nitrate). ProBio is made in a completely different way--to adapt the cultures for consuming detritus. That being said, we've seen people use Substrate Sauce in established systems for two reasons: (1) because they maintain a high density of corals in a chronically ULN system where PO4 addition is desirable, or (2) because they are battling dinos and believe that in addition to adding heterotrophic bacterial competitors, the extra PO4 helps to reverse the condition that allowed the dinos to proliferate in the first place.

Appreciate the information and break down! I was using it per suggestion of a buddy for my dinos. It really did seem to knock them back but they are lingering. I may do another longer cycle adding substrate sauce. Is ProBio known to bring down phosphates fairly drastically in some cases? I had a buddy with a similar system in size and age dose ProBio and reported his phosphates dropping overnight. I did not experience this on my tank.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Appreciate the information and break down! I was using it per suggestion of a buddy for my dinos. It really did seem to knock them back but they are lingering. I may do another longer cycle adding substrate sauce. Is ProBio known to bring down phosphates fairly drastically in some cases? I had a buddy with a similar system in size and age dose ProBio and reported his phosphates dropping overnight. I did not experience this on my tank.

Overnight seems a bit faster than I'd expect, but they are known for their ability to remove phosphate (especially on shrimp and fish farms). They take it up during growth like any microbe would, but stand out for belonging to a group known as phosphate accumulators. Basically, they take up way more phosphate than they need for growth because they store it inside their bodies in little granules as polyphosphate for later use. In this way, at least in theory, they lock up a lot of phosphate in their biomass and export some as well when they are removed by the skimmer. https://www.hydrospace.store/post/removing-phosphate-with-pns-bacteria

 

[Smite]

Overnight seems a bit faster than I'd expect, but they are known for their ability to remove phosphate (especially on shrimp and fish farms). They take it up during growth like any microbe would, but stand out for belonging to a group known as phosphate accumulators. Basically, they take up way more phosphate than they need for growth because they store it inside their bodies in little granules as polyphosphate for later use. In this way, at least in theory, they lock up a lot of phosphate in their biomass and export some as well when they are removed by the skimmer. https://www.hydrospace.store/post/removing-phosphate-with-pns-bacteria

Amazing and thank you!

 

[deaclauderdale]

Overnight seems a bit faster than I'd expect, but they are known for their ability to remove phosphate (especially on shrimp and fish farms). They take it up during growth like any microbe would, but stand out for belonging to a group known as phosphate accumulators. Basically, they take up way more phosphate than they need for growth because they store it inside their bodies in little granules as polyphosphate for later use. In this way, at least in theory, they lock up a lot of phosphate in their biomass and export some as well when they are removed by the skimmer. https://www.hydrospace.store/post/removing-phosphate-with-pns-bacteria

Hello Ken I was the bud with overnight P04 drop. Product works as advertise so thank you for that. My question now is how should I go about continued use? I dosed a little less half the bottle first time around (190 ml) and P04 went from 0.12 to 0. I thought I was seeing things so tested again and sure enough 0. Should I does at half of the recommended dose from here on out, or should I dose and then provide a P04 source via NeoPhos or something to that effect.

As an aside I used substrate sauce to add a P04 source back to the tank once I realized what was happening so thanks again for that.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hello Ken I was the bud with overnight P04 drop. Product works as advertise so thank you for that. My question now is how should I go about continued use? I dosed a little less half the bottle first time around (190 ml) and P04 went from 0.12 to 0. I thought I was seeing things so tested again and sure enough 0. Should I does at half of the recommended dose from here on out, or should I dose and then provide a P04 source via NeoPhos or something to that effect.

As an aside I used substrate sauce to add a P04 source back to the tank once I realized what was happening so thanks again for that.

Hi deaclauderdale, and thank you. Naw, I'd probably not dose extra PO4. Unless, maybe, PO4 was about to bottom and nitrates were still pretty high. Otherwise, when nutrients get really low, I'd just do what the fish and corals would probably want me to do--feed more haha.

Yes, I think a half dose is fine, especially if you're doing it daily. It's well established that Rhodopseudomonas palustris is actively taken up by corals and incorporated into their bodies (much like zooxanthellae) where they feed off of exudates secreted by the coral and zooxanthellae. In fact, the lower the nitrogen availability for the zooxanthellae, the more of these bacteria these coral will host. https://www.hydrospace.store/post/d...mportant-article-you-ll-ever-read-about-coral Anyway, we're admittedly guessing here--extrapolating from coral-PNSB interactions in nature--but based on reports from users, we believe that a half dose (which many of our users now refer to as a "maintenance dose") is adequate for supporting this probiotic effect.

On the other hand, there's no risk of overdose. The "maximum daily dose" provided on the bottle, or even more, could be applied as a food. Also like zooxanthellae, corals consume these bacteria as a food. These bacteria in fact extremely nutritious, as they are rich in protein, B vitamins, certain fatty acids and carotenoids such as lycopene and astaxanthin. My point is that they are an excellent natural live food and so any excess you put in your tank will not go to waste. To the contrary, feeding or even overfeeding these bacteria is more likely to result in cleaner tank than a dirtier one.

Again, thanks.