Snails - bunches of 'em

[JSB]

Ok, in order to not hijack the previous mandarin thread I want to ask a question about snails. I, too, have a clams. I, too, did my best to scrub them before introduction. I, too, found pyramid snails. I too, added a wrasse for pyramid snail control (albeit a 6-line).

At night, I see a pyramid snail here or there on one of the clams, so I pull them and scrub them, and seem to be managing them, though I am not sure if my 6-line is helping. However, also I night I often see many snails (I think) on the glass. These are not pyramid shaped, but more like little white BBs, but too small to photograph. I have noticed a bunch also in my overflow which is dark and covered. I am hoping that this is some harmless snail, and not some other clam (or coral) enemy. If the latter, I need to get my clams out and starve the snails out. Or is there some other snail eradication activity that I need to undertake?

Any clue what they might be?

 

[Tomoko Schum]

What do they look like? They could be collonista snail if they look like tiny striped turbo snails. Stomatella off course looks like a snail on a half shell. Strombus snails look like a tiny fighting conch or nassarius snails. Tiny dark cerith snails look like larger cerith snail but they are much smaller. All of these are good algae grazers and multiply well in our aquarium.

 

[JSB]

These guys are all white and so small as to be hard to see. If you were to decompose the styrofoam form that is typical of electronics or small appliance packaging, it is made up of little balls that look like these snails, but a bit smaller. I will break out the magnifying glass this evening and se what I can tell about them.

 

[rajkovich207]

Bump for an answer, my dad has loads of these things.

 

[WesW]

Any chance they are some kind of copepod?

 

[JSB]

Any chance they are some kind of copepod?

I don't think so.

Here is the best photo I can get. Really, I can't tell if it is one or three snails. These pix were shot in macro mode @ 4x thru a magnifying glass at 3", so we are talking small. Smaller than my peppermint shrimp's eye.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

They look like Collonista snails to me.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/lukinrats/DSCF1208.jpg

The top one is collonista and the bottom one is strombus.

Dr. Ron Shimek said this about them:

"Collonista [Link 1, 2] (Figure 10)

Collonista are "mini-Turbo snails." They are
seldom purchased by hobbyists, but are relatively common in reef tanks anyway,
because they appear to hitchhike in on live rock or in some live sand. When
hobbyists first see them, they presume them to be "baby" grazers of some sort.
Instead, they have some of these animals. They reach a maximum adult size of
about 1/4th inch (6 mm) in height and diameter. They are often tan to white and
have mottled brown color patterns on the shell. They can be distinguished from
all other Trochoideans by their small size and the presence of a small pit or
hole in the center of the calcareous operculum that plugs the aperture. They
reproduce well in aquaria, and are quite good grazers. If present in large
numbers, they may effectively replace all other grazers in our systems.
"

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/images/image019.jpg

I don't seem to be able to post images directly tonight...

 

[Tomoko Schum]

I think I figured out what was wrong...

By the way, I have all three kinds in my tank. You might have picked them up from me. They are good things, though.

 

[JSB]

Based on that last image, these are most certainly collonista, thankfully. I think that is a good thing. I was not overly concerned, but that previous post about the mandarins got me to thinking. I am guessing that they may have come in on some palys from you as everything else gets dipped, religiously. I say that, yet I just found an acro crab in the depths of a new acro colony that I picked up in Memphis a couple weeks back. I thoroughly dipped it, yet the crab is living in there big as day. Not that I want him gone, but I just wonder how he survived the dip?

As always, thanks Tomoko.

 

[H@rry]

I have noticed that many of the dip chemicals (expecially CoralRx in the "retail" bottle) don't actually kill as many things as people suspect. They make them kinda "woozy" so they can be easily blown off your acros but may not actually kill them. If you want to see this for yourself dip a colony for 5 minutes and swish it vigorously. Now, with tweezers (being carefull to not injure them), pick up some of the pods and starfish that fell off and put them in another container of water and look at them 30 minutes later.

 

[JSB]

Well, if all I am getting is "woozy", then maybe some Jose Cuervo would be a cheaper alternative than CoralRX. Heck, it worked for me when I was younger.so who's to say it won't work on a nudibranch? Actually it would still work for me, but I have lost my taste for Jose Cuervo, which is to say now I can afford something that tastes a bit better.

 

[WesW]

Thinking about Jose Cuervo brings back memories from college... and makes me clutch my stomach. Worse still was Montezuma. Now that I can afford something that tastes a little bit better I don't have to deal with its revenge the next morning!

Another option for red bugs - Reef Central Online Community - Here is a cheaper alternative to CoralRX. My favorite coral shop told me they use bayer insect killer as a coral dip and haven't had any problems with it. I haven't tried it yet but I think I'll give it a shot once I run out of CoralRX.

 

[H@rry]

Bayer's works fine. My only objection is that it milks the water up so you can't see if you got any cooties off.

 

[JSB]

"Woozy Cooties". :bigsmile: I think that might be another Jerry Jeff Walker song. The lyrics would have to include "Woozy Cooties", "Jose Cuervo", "Bayer", and "Montezuma". We would have a hit song for sure.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

I would try Bayers Complete Insect Killer if it wasn't for the verbage in the MSDS "This product is extremely toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates."Be sure to rinse your frags completely.

This reminds me of the incident that I had about nine years ago.
I was applying pre-emergent herbicide on my flower bed in autumn. When I came back in the house, I noticed that my blue pigmy angelfish was caught in the bottle trap that I set up in my 29 gallon tank earlier. I took off my long sleeve jacket and gloves, washed my hands and arms throughly, and then put my hand in my tank and grabbed the bottle trap with the fish. It took me just a few seconds and I dumped the fish into my kitchen 15G reef tank.

Within a few hours my fish in 29 gallon tank were all dead. A small clam and corals were fine. My pigmy angel that I trasfered was alive and well in the 15G tank with the rest of the inhabitants there. That was a complete shock since I thought I got rid of the herbicide completely before I dipped my hand in the tank. I did a 100% water change on the 29 gallon tank. I don't remember how long I waited until I put another fish in that 29G, but it might have been a few weeks and a few water changes later. The fish that were added later to the tank did fine. I checked the MSDS for the product. It did say "extremely toxic to fish."

 

[WesW]

Tomoko that must have been rough Definitely something to think about and a good reason to do a lot more research on Bayers Complete Insect Killer before using it.

 

[H@rry]

I use Bayer's to dip Hawkins and other echinatas that are sensitive to CoralRX. I guess I'm lucky because I never bothered to rinse and so far no problems.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

I am glad that you have not had any issue with Bayers. It may be a matter of chemical composition and/or concentration. Mine was either Preen or Miracle Gro Garden Weed Preventor.

As I mentioned in another thread, just a trace of Fluke Tab (returning a few rocks into 180 without rinsing) has wiped out all the xenia in the 180. Some chemicals are extremely strong.

 

[pickupman66]

On the dip subject, I will no longer dip in coral rx pro. It may stun pests but does not work as effectively as advertised. I have come down with AEFW in my tank. I dipped every coral that came into my tank. Still got aefw. Yuck. Bayer works. I used .5ml per 2 cups water and they peeled off an across like a ship in fire. It was awesome. I didn't even swish it. All across in my tank have been dipped this way. I also made a batch with 4 gallons water and Bayer. However I did bad math and used a 4x dosage. Oops! Well it killed everything on those rocks that could be considered a pest. Dipped for 10 mins each with a powerhead. Yuck! Across were pretty darn bleached out. Slime like crazy. I rinsed them off good in another bucket and replaced. I had polyp extension on those within a few hours and a few days later I have the best pe ever. Still a bit bleached out but bug free. All other tank inhabitants are good.

Incidentally the singled I dipped were fully extended within a few hours. Pocillipora was the hardest hit. I dipped some pricey acros too.

Lesson: dip all corals in Bayer at .5 - .7ml per 2 cups water. Mixing 1ml to 1cup is too strong and cloudy but corals survive.

All this done this past weekend.

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