So I am considering starting a QUALITY reef store...

[malacoda]

I didn't read most of this. It is doable, but you will need to focus your attention to online sales. I have a few locals, and that gains traction almost weekly, but it isn't enough to stay in business. Shoot a PM, and I will be more then happy to talk about our experiences and possible startup costs. I still love the hobby too by the way!

This. Is. Worth. Its. Weight. In. GOLD.

Aquatic Arsenal just offered you the equivalent one of Willy Wonka's golden tickets.

If you really are giving serious thought to making this leap ... and you haven't already reached out him, take him up on his offer and PM him!

And do it before you do anything else.

The insights you gain can give you a clear, detailed, first-hand picture of:

• what the journey and work will be like versus what you envision it to be
• help you spark thoughts and ideas on which type of business pathway would be your most enjoyable way to start (a local storefront ... a small home system with online sales ... a small home system with niche items sold locally by appointment only ... coral only online ... fish-only online ... etc., etc.)
• shave time off of your preliminary planning AND make it more accurate, AND...
• form a link/relationship within the industry

...all in a fraction of the time (and expense) it would take you to learn on your own.

I have never run a physical store front. But I have made a major career switch -- from engineer to freelance copywriter. And I can tell you that having mentors to learn from made all the difference in the world.

 

[ThatTennesseeBeardedGuy]

This. Is. Worth. Its. Weight. In. GOLD.

Aquatic Arsenal just offered you the equivalent one of Willy Wonka's golden tickets.

If you really are giving serious thought to making this leap ... and you haven't already reached out him, take him up on his offer and PM him!

I have never run a physical store front. But I have made a major career switch -- from engineer to freelance copywriter. And I can tell you that having mentors to learn from made all the difference in the world.

I definitely already did, I could see that same opportunity that you saw. TBH at this point with so many responses I am just reading everything and soaking it all in to make my best course of action. Some great advice, some not so great, but I definitely am trying to model myself after the successes of other people. In fact that's the first thing I learned in business school! That and to start slower and to know my location, location, and you guessed it location. The advice on this forum is exactly what I was searching for. It almost seems like we need some genius out there to innovate how to ship live fish in a more sustainable way that will end up with the overall survival of the fish. But anyways, thanks everyone so much for the answers. I appreciate it.

 

[Humblefish]

I visited an LFS while on my honeymoon. The owner seemed depressed and agitated to be there. When asked he said he wished he would never have opened the store. He said he spent way too many hours there and didn't even own an aquarium in his home anymore.

I've known several happy-go-lucky people whose attitude changed drastically after owning a LFS for a year or two. (Some say it's happened to me after getting more involved with the commercial side of things.) The ineptness of wholesalers can drive you crazy, especially if you are attention to detail minded. Some are able to just let everything roll off their back, and make lemonade out of lemons. But when you are losing money and sinking deeper into debt... That's when almost anyone will come unhinged.

 

[Scott Campbell]

We always joked that being in business for yourself meant you got to work your own hours. Just unfortunately all of them.

People that succeed in small businesses usually love running and managing a complex operation significantly more than they love the particular product or service they sell. If you are psyched to be your own boss and shoulder all the responsibility, glory, misery and headaches - then go for it. If you are considering it because you like fish and corals, then maybe take it slow and see how it goes.

 

[Paul B]

But when you are losing money and sinking deeper into debt... That's when almost anyone will come unhinged.

I'm pretty sure that happens to most LFSs. They are not billionaire makers.

There was a guy here on Long Island that once opened a powered hang glider store and I thought,
Like Seriously!

You have to sell one or two of those things like every week to almost pay your rent. I don't know what some people are thinking.

I could see if you are retired , very good looking and don't need the money, a Chip and Dale dancer like me or are looking for an extension of your hobby or if you want to get away from your wife, girlfriend, carnivorous plant or bookie. But to make a living!

OK, Maybe if you live, Like Humble in Florida, South Carolina or Tibet. But for most places, you just need to much cash and fish won't do it. Neither will hang gliders.

My taxes here for a 40 X 100 tiny piece of real estate was $14,000.00. How many purple tangs would I have to sell just to pay my taxes? Not to mention the price of tree stump remover and Prizapro.

I am old and have been around a while and I know, for a young person to try to support a family on that, you really need to live on Mars, the far side of Mars. I wish you tons of luck, but I think you should get a job that makes some money and in your spare time, play with fish.

Of course if I had Humble's money, I would throw mine out.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[flsalty]

Well min wage is $14 in the province of Ontario. I really don’t know what employees of non chain fish stores make but I would imagine it’s at least slightly above min wage or no experienced reefers would want the jobs.

Here in the US even a manager doesn't make a decent living wage. There's a reason it's usually kids who work at pet stores and fish stores. There's no money in it unless you own the store. Truly experienced reefers got that way by spending lots of money. Even 15 bucks an hour is not enough.

 

[stephj03]

Prob won't like hearing this, but IMO fish stores do not net any real money vs what you and your wife do for a living.

Its one thing for someone who was only ever going to make $40k to replace that with an LFS, but replacing a therapist or a CPA stream with an LFS, especially after factoring in 401k and match? Forget it.

So I would turn this into a medium term "early retirement goal" vs a near term "own a fish store goal".

Retire early gets you out of an accounting job you don't love faster than, and more permanently than trying to slowly replace accounting with owning an LFS.

You and your wife likely make enough to put FIRE type principles to work. Do that with the goal of having a "break even" or slightly less LFS to keep yourself busy once you RE after reaching FI.

Or maybe consider taking an accounting job within the fish/coral/supplies industry so your accounting work feels connected to your hobby.

 

[stephj03]

Only other way without selling your soul to maintenance/guppy sales/low end dry goods would be to trend spot the next commerce platform and be first to offer on that platform effectively (lfs >> to >> Online e-commerce >> to >> Facebook/Instagram/Amazon e-commerce >> to >>whatever is next e-commerce>>).

You use to also be able to trend spot the next hot tech and grow as it grew, but from what I see, saltwaterfish.com was the last to do so effectively as a springboard.

 

[Coral Reef Keepers]

I too have thought of opening a "quality LFS". I have done so much research into it that I have almost gone cross eyed lol. While the area I live only has 1 what I would consider quality, there are many other not so great stores. Given their quality, they have me beat with experience (ie being open for quite some time). I have also come to the realization that it is a high risk business and takes a lot of time and cash flow to even think about breaking even. With that I have decided to just grow coral in my basement and shoot for at least trying to support my hobby with it. I realize that making a ton of money is just not a reality so the next best thing would be to make enough that my tanks pay for themselves and even that is a stretch. The best I can do is enjoy my hobby and side hustle with it as much as I can and if it grows into something much bigger that would be awesome but if it doesn't Im not gonna lose my house over it lol.

 

[Humblefish]

Of course if I had Humble's money, I would throw mine out.

Why do you think I'm rich? I drive a Dodge Ram.

 

[Paul B]

Why do you think I'm rich? I drive a Dodge Ram.

Yeah, but I bet it is a Hemi.

See you are a good example of the pitfalls of opening up a "Quality" store, or shipper.

You could make more money if you could get the livestock some people want, but it is unavailable.
Then maybe you could live in a quality SUV.

I am trying to get some Janss pipefish, dragon face pipefish, clingfish, gorgonians, sunburst anthius etc. But I can't find them even in the New York "Quality" LFSs. They come in occasionally but it seems the stores get them at times when I don't need them.

As you know, my fish only die of old age, but they still die. My copperband just died probably from old age and my janss pipefish is probably near the end of his lifespan as are my 29 year old fireclowns.

I go to LFSs all the time but the stock is very limited. This is not a self sustaining hobby and unfortunately for many reasons, it is not getting any better.

If I was 87 years younger and had a small tropical Island in French Polynesia and a few unemployed Supermodels who liked fish, I could raise all the fish people need. But so far, no one is giving me an Island.

I can get tangs, but for every Janss pipefish on a reef there are 5,000,000 tangs. Interesting creatures are hard to find no matter what you want to pay for them.

Corals and many fish are being excluded from being collected from almost everywhere.

The large LFS I go to has way more empty tanks than full ones and the full ones have black mollies, grass shrimp, a few tangs, wrasses and Godzilla Larvae with maybe one of those silly shark eggs which will grow into a 16 foot threasher shark, great for a Nano.

 

[Humblefish]

See you are a good example of the pitfalls of opening up a "Quality" store, or shipper.

You could make more money if you could get the livestock some people want, but it is unavailable.
Then maybe you could live in a quality SUV.

When you first start out, you're low man on the totem pole and just get whatever is leftover. The big boys that spend 2-3k weekly will always get the best stuff. I would place my order within an hour of getting an updated stock list, and still only get the bread & butter fish they had an abundance of. And be wary of any fish the wholesaler puts on sale. Sometimes that means they are overstocked with that particular fish, but sometimes it means those fish are dying left & right.

 

[Paul B]

The one store I know of that is still in business from 1971 has his own collectors and shippers.
He hired people in those places where fish come from to collect fish and has his own guys to ship them.

Not an easy task and requires tons of start up money. But much less money 20 years later.

As I said fish are very cheap, practically free on those Islands where you can live on $10.00 a week.
Of course thats if you live in a cardboard box and eat land hermit crabs and bananas.

If you have been to some of these places, you will know I am not kidding.