Some help better understanding dosing and achieving my goal of stability.

[TinCanHero]

Hello!

I've had a reef tank for about 17 months now, during that time I've had my ups and downs but things have done OK for the most part but not great.
Personally I've had trouble in the chemistry department, mostly down to not being dedicated enough but also I don't think I've ever fully understood what method and how to dose correctly and most importantly for my stability. my top priority and something I really, really want to achieve is a stable tank above all else. I feel that this is the most important thing for success, I started out like a lot of reefer do chasing "perfect" numbers but at this stage, I don't care if my KH is 9 or 11 DKH what I care about is it's not bouncing between the two for example.

I was hoping someone with a lot more experience than myself might be kind enough to help me achieve this, maybe talk me through what I'm doing / what would be better to do and stick with me for a while to help me get there. Something like a reef buddy? It would be nice to share my hobby with someone other than my issues also. Personally I have a lot of experience in horticulture and I'm more than happy to share that if you're interested in plants

I've also had an ICP test recently and have found some heavy metals, some advice would be welcome on that also.

Anyway, here is some information on my system. Much more info can be found in my build diary!

The tank is 93USG (30x30x24), the total volume was ~450L with the sump, which has just been upped to ~530L with my frag tank.

Running bio pellets, with 2 extra reactors ready for GFO / Carbon if or when need.

No fuge ATM but it's easy to install one and I do plan on it.

Had UV running at the start, been offline since the sump upgrade until yesterday when i turned it back on after being plumbed into the frag system.

Jabo Dosing pump x 3 heads.

ATO system.

Apex EL for Temp + PH.

Red Sea Coral Pro salt.

Some params:
Lights: 10am-11pm David Sax profile.
Salinity 0.025 - has not been to stable over the last few months to solve this I've ordered a larger RODI top off tank so I don't have to fill it as often.
Temp 25c (Image below shows 3 drops of almost 1deg, disregard this as it's my error. I didn't have my frag tank running over those 3 days because of a leak but I ran the system for a few hours a night to keep the water mixed with the system and "good", the drop is when I turned the valve on)
KH 8.9 DKH today @ 8:15pm
Nitrates just over 10 on a salifert kit, id say 10-15ppm.
PH: 8.2 AV (8.12-8.3 day swing) (higher atm since its summer and i can keep a window open 24/7. as been as low as 7.9-8.1 (low-high) through the winter.
Rest: Through Triton ICP (results came today, test from 9/6 the day i filled the frag system, this test was of the water before filling (~450L)

Triton Applied Reef Bioscience are the world leaders in professional sea water analysis.

Empowering aquarists around the world since 2008. Click to view shared sea water analysis.

www.triton-lab.de

With some information/params out of the way here is what I've been doing (and not doing recently) and what equipment/products I use.

Feeding - I feed my fish around 4-5 times a week frozen high protein mysis (most common food + my go-to base 80%+ min protein), lobster eggs, brine shrimp, krill, pods + reef feast. I used to feed 7 days a week but I had a no3 + po4 problem so I cut way back with no ill effects to the fish (still growing well and healthy + fat). I used to feed my corals also with the same as above + reef roids but I haven't in months.

WC - I try to WC once a week around 90-100L, this has been low as once every 2-4 weeks but it caused major problems.

Dosing - I've only every dosed KH to my tank, I've done this since almost day one, I dose 10ML per day of red sea foundation B I that I mix myself from powder.
I dose KH because I cannot keep my KH high, during cycling my KH dropped to 6 if I remember. In the past, I used to dose 6ml a day on my old sump and that would keep my KH around 9 DKH.

Testing, Something I haven't been doing recently (read my build diary for more info), and its something I have been pretty awful at doing on a regular basis, discipline is required on my part to do this as its the only way I can turn this around. Today this changes.
I have a full set of Salifert kits, along with a Hannah pocket checker for KH and Cal (need some new regents for the cal kit thou)
The plan is to test KH once per day at the same time(should I be testing twice, once before lights on and once in the evening?), with Cal & Po4 + No3 on the weekends just before WC. I've never tested MG and I have kits for other things like Iodine but I've never really used them either. then when I get my baseline over a week or two I can start to adjust?

Now, I'm smart enough to know that I'm doing this wrong and have been since day 1. I understand that KH and cal are linked in some way and I should probably be doing them both but I don't really understand the link fully and how imbalance impacts all 3 (cal, KH and PH). I've wanted to address the issue for a long time but because what I've been doing has been "getting me by" I've kinda been scared to change it although I know its the right thing to do. I can clearly see my Cal is low and probably was much lower before I started to try to turn this around (WC's have been strict 1/week sometimes two when I was cleaning so that must have bumped it back up). Overall I know my tank is unstable and is off balance and is not being cared for correctly. I've watched every youtube video going and I've read a bunch but actually doing it has been an issue for me for some reason.

My overall goals here are to understand what I'm doing + need to be doing to achieve stability, and actually get there. along with fixing my Zinc problem and hopefully gaining a reefing buddy in the process I'm totally addicted to coral and the SW hobby and I really want nothing more than to succeed and actually enjoy my results instead of being depressed and put off by the whole experience.

Also, it may be worth noting I have a bunch of products at my disposal that I've purchased as bulk lots cheaply when getting my gear, I have things like kalcwassa KH + PH buffers, etc on hand if I ever need them.

Last of all ill note quickly about my heavy metal issue in my tank, my ICP test came back as having high Zinc and slightly high AL + BA. From what I understand BA can accumulate from binding with AL? I think my net cover is the cause. it sags in the water pretty bad and the black coating on the aluminum has worn off and the aluminum its self is starting to ware. this must be the cause of the aluminum spike but the Zinc I'm unsure of, maybe its the coating? or possibly its an alloy of zinc and aluminum the Redsea covers are made from?

-- scratch that a quick google shows zinc spray coatings as a common solution for aluminum. I'm going to go with the coating as the Zinc issue for now unless anyone has a better idea? I'll buy a poly filter and replace my cover, something that is in the process anyway.

-- I also emailed Redsea earlier and got a pretty quick response. Their frames are anodized and not zinc-coated but the aluminum alloy contains 0.2% Zinc although that wouldnt be the cause.

Kind regards & happy reefing,
TinCanHero - Matt.

 

[Fred2482]

Poly Pads are great! It sounds like you are just trying to get the Alk, Calc, and Mag stable (your PH looks awesome)? This can be a little tricky as you have to match your tanks consumption rate which is different depending on coral, fish, lighting, and more. Both the consumption rate and the additives will affect your PH. If you are utilizing dosers, it should be as simple as increasing dosing until it matches the consumption. The relationship between all the measured items you mentioned can also be different depending on what you are actually dosing. Different products contain different mixtures and this can be tricky to figure out. I cant remember off the top of my head, however I have seen some great actual chemistry explanations of the relationship for these items (I think from MACNA). What are you dosing currently?

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Carbonate alkalinity and calcium are not linked in any of the ways that you ask in your post. They're related in that calcifying organisms tend to use both. If you're dosing for alkalinity, in almost all circumstances you'll need to be dosing calcium as well. There is also no "link" between calcium and pH.

Alkalinity, on the other hand, can affect pH: in tanks with higher alkalinity the pH is higher if CO2 remains stable. But, alkalinity does not "control" pH. Because of the way that seawater is buffered, the only long term way to manage pH is increasing or decreasing the CO2 dissolved in your tank. Because pH is relatively difficult to manage and because many reef tanks are successful in a wide pH range, I wouldn't worry about pH too much for now.

Dosing for calcium, alkalinity and magnesium is pretty straightforward. First get the levels where you want them using a quality two/three-part. Make small adjustments over a few days until you get them where you want to be.

After that, I would test for alkalinity daily (until it's stable), calcium weekly and magnesium monthly. Dose after you test to get the values where you want. You'll probably notice that you dose about the same amount of supplement every time you dose. After you're comfortable that your tank is using the same amount of alkalinity, you can automate that with a doser. Same with the calcium, although you might be able to get away with dosing that weekly depending on your situation. Magnesium likely can be dosed weekly or monthly without issue since consumption in reef aquaria is relatively low, but let your testing be the ultimate judge of that. If you want you can automate all three on a doser.

Some of the post above might get more attention if you broke it out into smaller, separate posts, particularly the part about testing and controlling nutrients. Nutrients are not as cut-and-dry as the big three and depend a lot on your circumstances. Randy's articles on reef chemistry and the BRS videos on aquarium chemistry are great resources as well.

 

[TinCanHero]

Hey guys, Apologies for being quiet the last few days, I forgot my phone contract ran out this month!

Poly Pads are great! It sounds like you are just trying to get the Alk, Calc, and Mag stable (your PH looks awesome)? This can be a little tricky as you have to match your tanks consumption rate which is different depending on coral, fish, lighting, and more. Both the consumption rate and the additives will affect your PH. If you are utilizing dosers, it should be as simple as increasing dosing until it matches the consumption. The relationship between all the measured items you mentioned can also be different depending on what you are actually dosing. Different products contain different mixtures and this can be tricky to figure out. I cant remember off the top of my head, however I have seen some great actual chemistry explanations of the relationship for these items (I think from MACNA). What are you dosing currently?

hey @Fred2482 thanks for dropping in and the reply!

Pretty much, I think I have the rest pretty much under control although things like neuts need tweeking, the PH has been looking great recently, im probably due for calibration of the probe but id expect it to be correct, especially for this time of year with all the airflow.
I think recently I've just been slightly overwhelmed by actually doing it, id rather not make things worse. I guess I'm looking for someone with some experience at doing this who I can talk to regularly, ask all of my silly questions & check I'm not being silly. I feel like I almost know what I need to do but I'm a lone wolf doing it, even my LFS is 30+ miles away and the guys there ain't really chatty or helpful.

Carbonate alkalinity and calcium are not linked in any of the ways that you ask in your post. They're related in that calcifying organisms tend to use both. If you're dosing for alkalinity, in almost all circumstances you'll need to be dosing calcium as well. There is also no "link" between calcium and pH.

Alkalinity, on the other hand, can affect pH: in tanks with higher alkalinity the pH is higher if CO2 remains stable. But, alkalinity does not "control" pH. Because of the way that seawater is buffered, the only long term way to manage pH is increasing or decreasing the CO2 dissolved in your tank. Because pH is relatively difficult to manage and because many reef tanks are successful in a wide pH range, I wouldn't worry about pH too much for now.

Dosing for calcium, alkalinity and magnesium is pretty straightforward. First get the levels where you want them using a quality two/three-part. Make small adjustments over a few days until you get them where you want to be.

After that, I would test for alkalinity daily (until it's stable), calcium weekly and magnesium monthly. Dose after you test to get the values where you want. You'll probably notice that you dose about the same amount of supplement every time you dose. After you're comfortable that your tank is using the same amount of alkalinity, you can automate that with a doser. Same with the calcium, although you might be able to get away with dosing that weekly depending on your situation. Magnesium likely can be dosed weekly or monthly without issue since consumption in reef aquaria is relatively low, but let your testing be the ultimate judge of that. If you want you can automate all three on a doser.

Some of the post above might get more attention if you broke it out into smaller, separate posts, particularly the part about testing and controlling nutrients. Nutrients are not as cut-and-dry as the big three and depend a lot on your circumstances. Randy's articles on reef chemistry and the BRS videos on aquarium chemistry are great resources as well.

hey @chipmunkofdoom2 thank you for the reply!

That clarifies the link up for me a little, I assumed it was a correlation between the uptake of cal and KH but no link. that confused me is how one can use a two-part with the confidence of not overdoing one or the other (like kalkwassa), I assumed there was an actual link between how much cal was used and how much KH. I guessed that KH can fluctuate on its own as even with no corral mine dropped rather low in the early stages.
In the early days, I used to chase PH with alk dosing, well actually the seachem buffer that I received in a bulk buy deal, I soon realized that PH is much easier to control through Co2. I have a bunch of dogs in the house so I hooked up some fans around the room to push air around 6months ago and it made a huge improvement to my PH, I did struggle at one point to get 8. in the summer when I can keep a window open I get really good PH, 8-8.3 but I have learned not to worry as long as its fairly high, its certainly something I don't really watch or worry about. I do have some questions regarding it thou, dose the PH swing of the day effect coral much? for example, my PH starts off at 8 and ends at 8.3, how bad is that 0.6 swing over 24h? I know you can stabilize further by running a fuge and the lighting on a reverse schedule.

I think as I stated above I think really I know what I'm doing in regards to getting it right its just a "reef buddy" that im lacking, I spend a lot of time watching many youtube vids and reading but its always nice to talk to people about things, it almost seems silly to keep making new threads for really simple questions, I kinda feel embarrassed, to be honest I do have a build thread where I try and get input/advice or ask questions but I, unfortunately, don't get many replies - I don't blame people I wouldn't read it with my style of writing either lol

I've been testing KH every night this week, here are my results. I had a blip in the results towards the end of the week due to topping off the KH solution in my dosing tank as it was almost out. I mix the solution with scales and a measuring jug to be accurate, I wonder if the solution loses potency over time.
I plan to test the same again all this week, before changing anything, ill test my cal at least 3 times to try and get a curve this week also.


16/6 @ 20:30 8.9 DKH
17/6 @ 20:10 8.8 DKH
18/6 @ 20:05 8.7 DKH
19/6 @ 21:45 8.6 DKH - Added new KH solution just before bed (after testing)
20/6 @ 21:30 8.7 DKH
21/6 @ 19:39 8.4 - Before WC

Kind regards, TinCanHero.