Some mIcro organism is killing my fish

[JediCruz]

So my tank crashed last year and slowly, all my fish started dying. The coral have all survived. I started ProziPro treatment at the beginning of this year (around January), twice and tried to add a fish again and it died. I got frustrated and neglected the tank. Some of the coral died due to my neglect, like some Acros and some Euphyllia, but, for the most part, all my coral are thriving and keep growing. I’ve since gotten back into the groove and bought new coral. They all seem to be good. I tested the parameters and everything seems to fine. So I decided to test with fish again. The clowns, unfortunately, didn’t last 24 hours. The only live things that are still in the tank are 5 hermit crabs and 1 snail. They’ve stayed alive for six months when no other moving animal (besides copepods, anthropods and bristleworms which have all taken over because the six line wrasse died almost a year ago). I don’t get it. What bacteria could be in the system that would kill a fish so quickly yet the coral and other invertebrates are fine? It’s been over 6 months without any fish. I’m truly at a loss here. I’m thinking about doing a 100% water change but I’m not sure if that will help at all.

 

[JediCruz]

I actually found one clown still alive but it’s not going to make it, from the looks of it. I may just take it to a fish store with hopes it survives there while I sort this out.

 

[KrisReef]

Post a picture of the tank, sump?

Have you done an ICP test?

 

[Pickle_soup]

I am going to take a shot and say that the clown was probably not acclimated correctly, or was infected with something but the stress sped up the process.

 

[JediCruz]

I’ll post a pick of the tank and dump in a min. No ICP test yet. Are you thinking there could be some element that’s out of whack like copper?

 

[Pickle_soup]

I’ll post a pick of the tank and dump in a min. No ICP test yet. Are you thinking there could be some element that’s out of whack like copper?

Imo, unlikely. If your corals are doing ok, it shouldn't be.

 

[JediCruz]

I am going to take a shot and say that the clown was probably not acclimated correctly, or was infected with something but the stress sped up the process.

I bought these from Top Shelf Aquatics and I chose the best looking ones there. Though what you say is possible, I’m thinking it’s unlikely that they would have does that quickly, I think. But I’m no expert. I have the tank for 3 years and it baffles my mind.

 

[JediCruz]

 

[Pickle_soup]

Is this correct, the fish were shipped on Friday and you received them yesterday?

 

[Pickle_soup]

Is this correct? Your fish were shipped on Friday and you received them yesterday? I don't know anything about TSA, but I took a look at their website and I did not find anything on their quarantine procedures, so I can't comment on that.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So my tank crashed last year and slowly, all my fish started dying. The coral have all survived. I started ProziPro treatment at the beginning of this year (around January), twice and tried to add a fish again and it died. I got frustrated and neglected the tank. Some of the coral died due to my neglect, like some Acros and some Euphyllia, but, for the most part, all my coral are thriving and keep growing. I’ve since gotten back into the groove and bought new coral. They all seem to be good. I tested the parameters and everything seems to fine. So I decided to test with fish again. The clowns, unfortunately, didn’t last 24 hours. The only live things that are still in the tank are 5 hermit crabs and 1 snail. They’ve stayed alive for six months when no other moving animal (besides copepods, anthropods and bristleworms which have all taken over because the six line wrasse died almost a year ago). I don’t get it. What bacteria could be in the system that would kill a fish so quickly yet the coral and other invertebrates are fine? It’s been over 6 months without any fish. I’m truly at a loss here. I’m thinking about doing a 100% water change but I’m not sure if that will help at all.

Not sure this is bacterial and without pics and history, its often impossible to assess the cause.
Were fish acclimated and how and for how long?
In the short time you had them, was there heavy breathing?
Did fish eat at all?
Any unusual behavioral signs like gasping at surface, hiding in corner, sluggish behavior, loss of color?
After having previous tank crash - Did you quarantine them?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don’t think this is anything lurking in your tank per se, but rather, non-quarantined fish dying from whatever they came in with. You should consider a comprehensive quarantine protocol:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[JediCruz]

Is this correct? Your fish were shipped on Friday and you received them yesterday? I don't know anything about TSA, but I took a look at their website and I did not find anything on their quarantine procedures, so I can't comment on that.

I’m local to them so I went there and bought them.

 

[JediCruz]

Not sure this is bacterial and without pics and history, its often impossible to assess the cause.
Were fish acclimated and how and for how long?
In the short time you had them, was there heavy breathing?
Did fish eat at all?
Any unusual behavioral signs like gasping at surface, hiding in corner, sluggish behavior, loss of color?
After having previous tank crash - Did you quarantine them?

They ate, very hungrily, the PE Pellets I fed them the day I got them. No gasping or anything. Then, the next morning, the larger clown fish was dead and on the gyre (it’s set to its lowest setting for acclimation purposes). Then I looked for the other clown and he was at the bottom corner of the tank under the gyre and was starting to gasp. This is when I knew I was going to lose him too. So within 24 hours they were both gone.

 

[vetteguy53081]

They ate, very hungrily, the PE Pellets I fed them the day I got them. No gasping or anything. Then, the next morning, the larger clown fish was dead and on the gyre (it’s set to its lowest setting for acclimation purposes). Then I looked for the other clown and he was at the bottom corner of the tank under the gyre and was starting to gasp. This is when I knew I was going to lose him too. So within 24 hours they were both gone.

Can be brook or water related

 

[JediCruz]

So one thing I remembered as I went back to TSA for my credit (they offer a 48 hour guarantee as long as a water test is performed on the sample water to verify chemistry is not out of whack) is supplementation of vitamins. Since I hadn’t had fish for over 6 months, I forgot that I used to soak their food in Vitachem. I didn’t do that with these fish. So I’m thinking that I get Vitachem or Selcon and start that soak with any fish I get again. I’ll probably add Seachem Focus as well since that’s what TSA uses when feeding them frozen Mysis shrimp. What I hope, though, is that I don’t have velvet in the system. If that’s the case, from my understanding, it’s either a tear down restart or be happy with a coral only tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So one thing I remembered as I went back to TSA for my credit (they offer a 48 hour guarantee as long as a water test is performed on the sample water to verify chemistry is not out of whack) is supplementation of vitamins. Since I hadn’t had fish for over 6 months, I forgot that I used to soak their food in Vitachem. I didn’t do that with these fish. So I’m thinking that I get Vitachem or Selcon and start that soak with any fish I get again. I’ll probably add Seachem Focus as well since that’s what TSA uses when feeding them frozen Mysis shrimp. What I hope, though, is that I don’t have velvet in the system. If that’s the case, from my understanding, it’s either a tear down restart or be happy with a coral only tank.

If the issue is velvet (but I don't think it was) you do not have to do a tear-down restart, or only go with invertebrates - velvet (Amyloodinium) has an even shorter fallow period than Cryptocaryon (ich) does. 60 days with no fish in the tank will eliminate it. As I mentioned though, if you do not fully quarantine your new fish, it can easily come right back in with the new fish.

Fish simply do not die from acuter illnesses because of a lack of vitamins. Poor nutrition, if it is really bad, can cause some chronic health problems. Here is an excerpt from my "Aquarium Myths" article:

Dietary supplements as a “medication”: The best diet in the world will not stop active infections – this is called the “chicken soup” syndrome. A proper diet is of course important for long-term fish health, it's just that changing to "great diet" will not stop active disease. Give this the logic test: will feeding your dog a great diet keep it from getting ticks or fleas? Of course not.


Jay

 

[JediCruz]

If the issue is velvet (but I don't think it was) you do not have to do a tear-down restart, or only go with invertebrates - velvet (Amyloodinium) has an even shorter fallow period than Cryptocaryon (ich) does. 60 days with no fish in the tank will eliminate it. As I mentioned though, if you do not fully quarantine your new fish, it can easily come right back in with the new fish.

Fish simply do not die from acuter illnesses because of a lack of vitamins. Poor nutrition, if it is really bad, can cause some chronic health problems. Here is an excerpt from my "Aquarium Myths" article:

Dietary supplements as a “medication”: The best diet in the world will not stop active infections – this is called the “chicken soup” syndrome. A proper diet is of course important for long-term fish health, it's just that changing to "great diet" will not stop active disease. Give this the logic test: will feeding your dog a great diet keep it from getting ticks or fleas? Of course not.


Jay

Understood and makes sense. So then, with that in mind, do you agree that adding Seachem Focus and possibly Metroplex as a soak for their food would be a good idea? These are direct treatments for bacterial infections and parasitical issues. Though, vitamins are not a direct treatment for infections, they can help as an immune booster so they can’t hurt either, right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Understood and makes sense. So then, with that in mind, do you agree that adding Seachem Focus and possibly Metroplex as a soak for their food would be a good idea? These are direct treatments for bacterial infections and parasitical issues. Though, vitamins are not a direct treatment for infections, they can help as an immune booster so they can’t hurt either, right?

Fat soluble vitamins can be overdosed, so you need to be careful. Vitamin deficiencies in fish are rare, most often thiamin, sometimes vitamin E. Adding more than the daily requirements has no benefit. I

Dosing oral medications in home aquariums is almost always done incorrectly. You can’t just mix medications with Focus without calculating the proper dose, and that can be difficult to do. Here is an article I wrote about that:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[JediCruz]

Fat soluble vitamins can be overdosed, so you need to be careful. Vitamin deficiencies in fish are rare, most often thiamin, sometimes vitamin E. Adding more than the daily requirements has no benefit. I

Dosing oral medications in home aquariums is almost always done incorrectly. You can’t just mix medications with Focus without calculating the proper dose, and that can be difficult to do. Here is an article I wrote about that:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

So what do you recommend? It’s been a coral an invert only system for over 6 months. Trying to reintroduce utility fish back into the tank.