Spectrum and Dinoflagellate Outbreak?

[reeferfoxx]

Is it possible to get a picture of the growth?

I would like to play with the concept that this could be a misdiagnosis. Is seems more coincidental with the lighting rather than the catalyst.

I'll tell a little short story about my dry rock and bagged live sand experience.

Feb 1st or day that water was added.


March 1st. Diatom bloom. Few coral added.


The diatom bloom lingered for a couple months. I neglected to visually document it until June and decided to take pictures for more insight as it was growing uncontrollably. But because the growth had bubbles and information was limited I went to dinoflagellate threads for help.

June misdiagnosis growth.



I sent a sample to a fellow reefer here named Todd Williard or commonly known as twilliard.


The chlorophyll presence in the sample led us to research that eventually turned into identifying as Chrysophytes.


Not much information on them but a common disturbance with this growth is large amounts of silicates and that part is the short version. Ripping my hair out with this growth brought me to an article by a well known reefer who specializes in lighting. His name is Dana Riddle ;Hilarious. His article, Aquarium Chemistry: Effects of GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide) on 'Trace' Metals Concentrations in Artificial Seawater, has the key(believe it or not) to eradicating Chrysophytes. A three day black out, with 24 hours of max GFO, and a water change will cure this growth.

However, the side effect from treatment is getting the tank back on track with maturing.


And eventually it clears up.


However, in my tanks history and after all these changes, the rock(picture above) in the lower left hand corner was a dense base rock with no holes or water to flow through. So I removed the rock to break it down. Come to find out, the rock won't break. The chisel just embeds and white milky stuff comes out.


So I cured more dry rock separately in a brute can for a little longer than a month. Seeding bacteria and doing small water changes. I also soaked the rock with GFO to limit silicates and phosphates that were known to leach. About two weeks after adding the new rock to the tank. Dinoflagellates.



I didn't want to share the tanks entire history but this is the picture heavy short story version. I did this to not only show the worst outcomes from dry rock tanks but to make sure that something isn't getting misidentified.

 

[taricha]

Thanks for tagging me, this is cool.
The Q of spectrum had been dismissed by people trying to get rid of dinos because it was posed "what spectrum do dinos not do well in" and the answer is none. Dinos grow under every kind of lighting system in the hobby.
But does a part of spectrum FAVOR dinos? Read on for what could be a mechanism.

Most green algae has chlorophyll-powered photosynthetic machinery. Dinos/coral have peridinin in addition to chlorophyll, and it lets dinos use different parts of spectrum.
Check this article - how dinoflagellates make light work with peridinin - http://www.cell.com/trends/plant-science/abstract/1360-1385(96)81769-9
"[Peridinin-Chlorophyll Proteins]...can be tuned to absorb in regions where chlorophylls cannot (480-550nm)"

So it seems like blues-only light is another circumstance (in addition to some nutrient situations) that would allow dinos to thrive while their green algae competitors suffer.

This would not explain a 1 day "explosion" of dinos, but it would explain a days to weeks long dino takeover.

 

[jsker]

Nutrient imbalance and the lights just accelerate the the growth cycle.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Nutrient imbalance

Limitation.

 

[jsker]

Limitation.

No, and I apologize

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

This would not explain a 1 day "explosion" of dinos, but it would explain a days to weeks long dino takeover.

If, as Dana suggests, a specific NM range is introduced that is favorable to that organism, it is entirely plausible.
But IMO, that NM reaction needs to be combined with another fuel. Ammoina , co2 , limitation scenario, carbon source etc etc.
in my observation of these events on forums and personal experiences with algaes plus the "old addage " algaes phase through a tank.
It's just a bloom in most cases. Once they use that Fuel, it fades. Only in the case of limitation scenarios would it become a cyclical or chronic problem.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No, and I apologize

I tease cuz I luv.

"How to understand and cure imbamlce problems ?" call it limitation.

 

[Dom]

I would be interested in understanding why blue actinic lighting as the sole source of light would cause a dinoflagellate outbreak.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I would be interested in understanding why blue actinic lighting as the sole source of light would cause a dinoflagellate outbreak.

I think the ghist is, why does a coral change color with the introduction of a new NM range of light.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Here's a quick and dirty photomicrograph I took of the stringy 'snot alga' causing the issues in my tank. Based on literature readily available to hobbyists (such as myself), this is identified as a benthic dinoflagellate. I'll leave ID up to those more well versed in dinoflagellate taxonomy if indeed that's what it is. Any help appreciated!

 

[Lynchdude]

IMO spectrum does not have to much to do but intensity might.
1)Most LFS run purely actinics to display corals colors
2) a recent video of Jason Fox’s tanks show he uses pure actinics
3) switching from t5 to led increases par in most cases More light more growth.
PUR is really hard to measure each animal is different but the usable photosynthetic radiation could have a play. If Dino’s use mostly the 420-460nm range as everything else does giving more energy to that range to a problem that was there but unknown because light was the limiting factor the increased energy would cause an imbalance and an explosion in growth until a new balance could be reached And the population equilibrium could be re balanced.

 

[Lynchdude]

I think the ghist is, why does a coral change color with the introduction of a new NM range of light.

Chloroplasts which photosynthetic life uses to convert light to energy absorb most energy in the 420-460 and 620-680 nm light ranges and the 420-460 range absorbs 4-5x more than the 620-680 range

 

[jsker]

I tease cuz I luv.

"How to understand and cure imbamlce problems ?" call it limitation.

Oh, I know. I just would like to heat it up

Simplified version without out all the links to verified threads (on the line)

Think of dino's as gasoline, what happen when gasoline is heated, or exposed to flame? It is going to ignite/combust/explode. Same thing with lighting, the more intense with a imbalance there is going to be a problem. What happen to gasoline when it evaporates? Gasoline is also most become harmless except for the residue and enough residue, one can start a very small fire that will not burn long. Same thing with a nutrient imbalance.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Chloroplasts which photosynthetic life uses to convert light to energy absorb most energy in the 420-460 and 620-680 nm light ranges and the 420-460 range absorbs 4-5x more than the 620-680 range

Correct. So if you change from a light to a light that is 20k to a light that is 20k but a different mixture (ratios of nm) it can fry coral. Or spur cyano. In this case , Dino's is the topic
This is why we acclimate coral. Overall intensity and A sudden spike of say 435nm (random number )that wasnt there before.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Oh, I know. I just would like to heat it up

Simplified version without out all the links to verified threads (on the line)

Think of dino's as gasoline, what happen when gasoline is heated, or exposed to flame? It is going to ignite/combust/explode. Same thing with lighting, the more intense with a imbalance there is going to be a problem. What happen to gasoline when it evaporates? Gasoline is also most become harmless except for the residue and enough residue, one can start a very small fire that will not burn long. Same thing with a nutrient imbalance.

Lol. My pet peeves. Mini cycle and nutint balance.
Back on topic

 

[taricha]

Here's a quick and dirty photomicrograph I took of the stringy 'snot alga' causing the issues in my tank. Based on literature readily available to hobbyists (such as myself), this is identified as a benthic dinoflagellate. I'll leave ID up to those more well versed in dinoflagellate taxonomy if indeed that's what it is. Any help appreciated!

Pennate Diatoms!
(Edit: Diatoms don't contain peridinin but they have other carotenoids in their chloroplasts that may give them better blue sensitivity than green algae)

 

[reeferfoxx]

Pennate Diatoms!
(Diatoms also contain peridinin in their chloroplasts if I remember right)

I was thinking calothrix?

http://www.biotools.eu/documentospdf/Ultratools-004.pdf

 

[jsker]

Lol. My pet peeves. Mini cycle and nutint balance.
Back on topic

Dude, is that not the truth. @revhtree just had a nasty bout of dinos, going back to the thread topic of lighting spectrum, @Dana Riddle posted and posed the question of light spectrum with LED's and with the red spectrum.

My thought/theory goes along the line of @glb experience and @mcarroll thread and combining philosophy, balancing the nutrients have help with my dino out break. Walking into my local fish store one of the guys basically reaffirmed a theory, " the system will balance itself just given time".

 

[reeferfoxx]

" the system will balance itself just given time"

My tank is a text book example of that theory.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

balancing the nutrients ha

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