Sponge Habitat

[Subsea]

I dusted off 2003 Reef Invertebrates book by Anthony Calfo & Robert Fenner to write this thread. I had just returned from a Marsh Conference in Pittsburg where I meant, Anthony Calfo, Danna Riddle and Eric Borneman, who I flew back to Houston with.

Fast forward to April 2023, Angel Cegarra book Reefkeeping Fundamentals best describes the need for diversity with this paragraph in his introduction:

“In this environment there is a gigantic network of nutrient transfer and recycling, which has been consolidated over millions of years and functions with an efficiency superior to the most elaborate human engineering. All functions are performed by different species and none is indispensable; the absence of some provides opportunities for others. The waste products of some are food for others and nothing is wasted. It is a dynamic system with numerous elements of redundancy, which has allowed reefs to survive the five mass extinctions that have occurred on Earth. This complex network underpins the robustness and stability of coral reefs.”

Because I am not “Sponge Bob” who dialogues with fellow sponges, I emulate Nature by creating a Caribbean lagoon bio-theme where ornamental sponges flourish.

This 55G is 3 years mature and was moved 3 months ago to this location to allow some remodeling. I am in the middle of several remodeling projects that make ascetics difficult. Display has red tree, elephant ear and red encrusting sponge. Also in display are sea apples, cucumbers, flame scallops and several feather dusters. Deep water NPS gorgonions alongside of light loving gorgonions and pulsing Xenia along with ornamental macros.

Reverse flow ug filter and canister filter are used as cryptic refugiums for biological recycling of POC & DOC.

 

[lapin]

Nice.
Remodel ...how fun?

 

[Tavero]

I dusted off 2003 Reef Invertebrates book by Anthony Calfo & Robert Fenner to write this thread. I had just returned from a Marsh Conference in Pittsburg where I meant, Anthony Calfo, Danna Riddle and Eric Borneman, who I flew back to Houston with.

Fast forward to April 2023, Angel Cegarra book Reefkeeping Fundamentals best describes the need for diversity with this paragraph in his introduction:

“In this environment there is a gigantic network of nutrient transfer and recycling, which has been consolidated over millions of years and functions with an efficiency superior to the most elaborate human engineering. All functions are performed by different species and none is indispensable; the absence of some provides opportunities for others. The waste products of some are food for others and nothing is wasted. It is a dynamic system with numerous elements of redundancy, which has allowed reefs to survive the five mass extinctions that have occurred on Earth. This complex network underpins the robustness and stability of coral reefs.”

Because I am not “Sponge Bob” who dialogues with fellow sponges, I emulate Nature by creating a Caribbean lagoon bio-theme where ornamental sponges flourish.

This 55G is 3 years mature and was moved 3 months ago to this location to allow some remodeling. I am in the middle of several remodeling projects that make ascetics difficult. Display has red tree, elephant ear and red encrusting sponge. Also in display are sea apples, cucumbers, flame scallops and several feather dusters. Deep water NPS gorgonions alongside of light loving gorgonions and pulsing Xenia along with ornamental macros.

Reverse flow ug filter and canister filter are used as cryptic refugiums for biological recycling of POC & DOC.

I don't wanna be that guy but I have to.

You sure, you feel safe with that mess of cables and dangeling power strip?

 

[Readywriter]

I don't wanna be that guy but I have to.

You sure, you feel safe with that mess of cables and dangeling power strip?

Its balanced by the one in the other window.

Biome driven tanks are my favorite.

 

[Subsea]

I don't wanna be that guy but I have to.

You sure, you feel safe with that mess of cables and dangeling power strip?

As safe as using an electric drill or an ironing board.
I also keep a knife in my pocket.

 

[strich]

Love it! I'm still new to the reefing hobby and one thing that almost immediately turned me away was this majority obsession with "clean room" aquariums - bare bottoms, tons of chemicals, skimmers that strip mine the water column, apocalyptic UV destruction, etc.

If you could find the time I'd love a more in-depth breakdown of your setup and various things you do to upkeep the ecosystem!

 

[Subsea]

Love it! I'm still new to the reefing hobby and one thing that almost immediately turned me away was this majority obsession with "clean room" aquariums - bare bottoms, tons of chemicals, skimmers that strip mine the water column, apocalyptic UV destruction, etc.

If you could find the time I'd love a more in-depth breakdown of your setup and various things you do to upkeep the ecosystem!

I am going to copy and paste some post from another thread that gets into some more details.

Different sponges need different things. I choose Caribbean ornamental sponges and mimicked their habitats with the biodiversity of a Caribbean lagoon ecosystem. So I started biodiversity with diver collected live sand and live rock to establish a tripod of biochemical filtration with: bacteria, algae and sponges, in particular, cryptic sponges. Cryptic sponges recycle POC (particulate organic carbon) & DOC (dissolved organic carbon).

Sponge Tank

Does anyone have experience keeping a sponge only aquarium? If so where can I purchase sponges. I've only found a few online.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Subsea]

Let’s park here.

Yes, some sponges succumb to biofouling from algae and Cynobacteria. On the reef, herbivores keep sponges clean. In display tanks, I have noticed angels, tangs and lawnmower blennies grazing on sponge biomass and sponge regenerating tissue quickly. I sometimes use a toothbrush to deal with nuisance algae on sponges and remind myself to get more janitors: hermits, snails………


Note the two janitors working on red tree sponge that is intertwined with a deepwater nps Gorgonion both are under two 110W led light bars. I would guess that PAR is >100?
For the picture, I removed the blue light bar, so the picture is under 10K color spectrum at 50PAR.

In speaking with Russ Kronwetter, diver/owner of live plants, he collects sponges of several variety both in bright open areas and on shaded ledges. He further added that robust circulation is a critical parameter for success.

<head> <title>Macroalgae For Marine Reef Aquariums: Yellow Ball Sponge
<head> <title>Macroalgae For Marine Reef Aquariums: Red Finger Sponge
These are the two ornamental sponges that I have had the most success with.

Attachments​

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[lil sumpin]

I’m beginning to see more of this white sponge in my 7 month old reef tank. At first there was a little piece of it on some live rock rubble I introduced. Didn’t think it would be of any harm and although it still isn’t harming anything, it’s beginning to take off. There is some of it on the stalk of one of my larger toadstools and also a couple chunk of it underneath it, it seems to prefer growing in a moderate flow, low lit area.

 

[Subsea]

@ISpeakForTheSeas said

Tree sponges are known for being difficult- my guess would be that it’s struggling as a result of a mix of stress from the incident and most likely getting sand in its pores (sponges can generally remove some sand from their system, but too much sand can kill them).

As far as feeding goes, phytoplankton dosing is good, and the sponge may benefit from you stirring the sand bed and blowing detritus off the rocks (basically trying to get bacteria and DOM/POM from the substrate to the sponge).

The sponge may or may not recover over time, but I wouldn’t give up on it.

Sponge info dump:

For sponges, you need to position the specimen properly and feed the right kinds of foods in high enough quantities for them to survive (I don't know if I've heard of any non-invasive sponges actually thriving in a tank yet) - the main problem seems to be providing the right kinds of foods in sufficient quantities.

Long story short, the only "success" stories I've seen with sponges either come from labs (one of which was able to keep the sponges alive and healthy enough to reaggregate while also being somewhat unhealthy and clearly lacking in color by feeding a bunch of phyto while the sponges likely also fed on bacteria, cyano, and possibly diatoms in the tank; the other managed to keep a known invasive species of sponge alive in a similarly mildly healthy/unhealthy state, but I don't remember the methodology off the top of my head) or from people regularly stirring their sandbeds and/or blowing detritus off their rocks - this is thought to help get the bacteria, microalgae (phytoplankton and similar), and appropriately sized organic matter pieces from the sandbed/rocks into the water column for the sponges to feed on (these seem to have similar levels of success as the labs mentioned above, with periods of both sponge growth and sponge deterioration).

A massive sponge info dump (I’m sorry, it’s kind of daunting - I need to go through and organize/condense it one of these days):
Click to expand...

The info I’ve compiled on sponges so far:

Most sponges that I’ve looked into primarily consume Dissolved Organic Matter (DOM - sometimes called Dissolved Organic Carbon, or DOC, which is actually a component of DOM) and specific kinds of bacteria (which kinds vary at least a little from one sponge to another). Most of them seem to have no preference for where their DOC comes from, but they have a preference for algal-derived Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (i.e. DON produced by algae). Giant Barrel Sponges and some Boring Sponges have had their diets analyzed, and they primarily consume DOM (~80% of their total diet, with the remaining ~20% coming from Particulate Organic Matter (POM - primarily phytoplankton and bacteria, though, as mentioned above, bacteria is taken in much higher quantities than phyto). This ratio of approximately 80/20 seems to be pretty typical(though it can vary from what I've seen by +/-15% or so one way or another) for most sponges from what I can find.

Unfortunately, we don’t have an easy, hobbyist way to measure DOM, DOC, DON, or POM (or POC or PON) that I’m aware of, so we don't really have any way to determine if the sponges are getting enough food consistently to thrive (to say nothing of measuring the amounts of specific bacteria in our tanks), but there you have it.

If you do some reading on sponge keeping here on R2R, you'll probably find pretty quickly that most people recommend low lighting low flow for sponges (exceptions for photosynthetic sponges), but the truth is this also depends on the sponge species. The most common photosynthetic sponges in the hobby are the photosynthetic plating sponges (like you can find/buy on LiveAquaria's site), but there are quite a few other sponges that are photosynthetic too (such as Aplysina cauliformis, for example), and these would benefit from high lighting. Similarly, some species of sponge do best in very high flow areas, including high flow areas with laminar flow (a lot of people talk about random flow on the site, which would be called turbulent flow, as they're trying to get the water moving basically randomly throughout the tank - laminar flow is just a continuous flow that doesn't change, so the water keeps going the same direction nonstop and there's nothing random about it). If you're not sure if the sponge is photosynthetic or not, you can try starting it in one lighting (such as low lighting), see how it does and then compare it to a different lighting (moderate or high) and figure out its needs from that. Same with the flow. Light will probably be the most important part for photosynthetic species and the food/flow the most important for NPS species - some people have found stirring up their sand to be an effective food source for sponges, likely because it puts bacteria and DOM into the water column. It’s probably safest to start low light/flow and move up, rather than starting high and moving lower.

Some sponges do well in some tanks but not in others for no discernible reason, and some some sponges travel well while other sponges don't. Plus, sometimes a sponge will basically disintegrate into a ton of tiny pieces and look like it's dying, but it'll then proceed to grow and live on afterwards. Similarly, some sponges grow invasively while others grow incredibly slowly, so a lot of keeping these guys at this point really just depends on the luck of the draw (so to speak).
Click to expand...

Just a note here, some species of sponge (such as some Sycon spp. - pineapple sponges) do in fact eat noteworthy (for the sponge, not necessarily for the tank they're in) levels of small phyto species.

The only real advice I can offer for sure for this specific sponge (Clathria (Clathria) prolifera) is that it eats Isochrysis galbana (T-Iso),* so offering it some regularly may prove beneficial. Beyond that, it grows on solid surfaces (like rocks, dock pilings, etc.), it is often found in the intertidal zone, and it's said that it can handle high brackish salinities (reportedly as low as 15ppt).

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ge_Clathria_prolifera_from_the_Chesapeake_Bay
Click to expand...

To add to the above, knowing that bacteria and DOC are important, some people might recommend carbon dosing and/or turning off a UV if you have one running so as to encourage bacterial population growth (you may need to be careful if you try this though, as too big of a bacteria bloom could cause issues in your tank).

For general sponge health, I've heard good things from people dosing ChaetoGro, and some phyto dosing and/or macro in the tank may help encourage sponge health/growth too.

Also, a couple of things pertaining to sponges and silicates - most sponges do need them, so it may be a good idea (as mentioned) to dose silicates if you're trying to promote sponge growth.
Click to expand...

Should you decide to try and keep any of the sponges you're interested in, take note if you can of the sponge's surroundings and the flow it's in - if you can't do that, the link below may help you figure out sediment and flow preferences for any sponges you want to keep (the graphical abstract close to the top is a visual representation of the info presented).

No taxonomy needed: Sponge functional morphologies inform about environmental conditions​

The need to study sponge communities in comparatively inaccessible habitats led to a sponge classification system that relies on the strictly function…

www.sciencedirect.com
Click to expand...

Most sponges do, yes. If there’s a high level of silicates and a sufficient amount of food for the sponges (including things like Dissolved Organic Matter, bacteria, phytoplankton, and some Particulate Organic Matter), then you may see a population boom with sponges.

 

[Subsea]

Love it! I'm still new to the reefing hobby and one thing that almost immediately turned me away was this majority obsession with "clean room" aquariums - bare bottoms, tons of chemicals, skimmers that strip mine the water column, apocalyptic UV destruction, etc.

If you could find the time I'd love a more in-depth breakdown of your setup and various things you do to upkeep the ecosystem!

I use three differrent habitats to promote cryptic sponges:

1. Reverse flow false bottom plenum in display.

2. Cryptic refugium with mud filter. Talk to @Paul B about MULM. However, Paul does not like sponges.

3. Hi-flow canister filters. I often use a mature filter to inoculate a new system.

 

[strich]

@Subsea can you confirm in this research and your experience that sponges can't really survive just on phyto and pod dosing? The research you posted seems to suggest some level of DOMs/DOCs is necessary for sponges. Which I guess means one needs quite a mature ecosystem with a decent amount of bioload right?

 

[Subsea]

@Subsea can you confirm in this research and your experience that sponges can't really survive just on phyto and pod dosing? The research you posted seems to suggest some level of DOMs/DOCs is necessary for sponges. Which I guess means one needs quite a mature ecosystem with a decent amount of bioload right?

I will link academic research that shows diversity of feeding strategies increases survival of species. The research does not suggest, it documents a high level of feeding on DOM/DOC and during seasonal fluctuations when these levels are not high, switching feeding strategies to phytoplankton.

However, each species should be viewed separately to detail what each species feeds on. Because I am a simple person, I focus on the ecosystems that supports ornamental sponges and then,

I emulate Nature and provide diversity of micro fauna & fana.

Angel Cegarra captures this sentiment in his book
Reefkeeping Fundamentals which was published March 23, 2023. Chapter 1 Introduction on “Biology and Nutrients page 14 on the third paragraph reads:

“The organisms that inhabit coral reefs have evolved together for millions of years, so that their feeding habits are completely intertwined. Reefs are habitats with extraordinary stable environmental conditions throughout geologic time. This stability has favored the evolution of hundreds of thousands of species over millions of years, producing an unimaginable explosion of biodiversity.”

 

[Subsea]

I’m beginning to see more of this white sponge in my 7 month old reef tank. At first there was a little piece of it on some live rock rubble I introduced. Didn’t think it would be of any harm and although it still isn’t harming anything, it’s beginning to take off. There is some of it on the stalk of one of my larger toadstools and also a couple chunk of it underneath it, it seems to prefer growing in a moderate flow, low lit area.

I looked at your thread on hitch hiker ID. I could not identify white spots from your picture, but ISpeakfortheseas answered your post.

 

[Subsea]

I will link academic research that shows diversity of feeding strategies increases survival of species. The research does not suggest, it documents a high level of feeding on DOM/DOC and during seasonal fluctuations when these levels are not high, switching feeding strategies to phytoplankton.

However, each species should be viewed separately to detail what each species feeds on. Because I am a simple person, I focus on the ecosystems that supports ornamental sponges and then,

I emulate Nature and provide diversity of micro fauna & fana.

Angel Cegarra captures this sentiment in his book
Reefkeeping Fundamentals which was published March 23, 2023. Chapter 1 Introduction on “Biology and Nutrients page 14 on the third paragraph reads:

“The organisms that inhabit coral reefs have evolved together for millions of years, so that their feeding habits are completely intertwined. Reefs are habitats with extraordinary stable environmental conditions throughout geologic time. This stability has favored the evolution of hundreds of thousands of species over millions of years, producing an unimaginable explosion of biodiversity.”

Also quoted from Angels book on page 15:

“In this environment there is a gigantic network of nutrient transfer and recycling, which has been consolidated over millions of years and functions with an efficiency superior to the most elaborate human engineering.”

I say that the DNA code using gene expression is the best evidence of “Intelligent Design” as opposed to todays emphases on “Artificial Intelligence”.

“Scientist Avery Colin MacLeod and Maclyn McCarty demonstrated that DNA molecules are responsible for transmitting the genetic inheritance to all organisms. Mutation in the genome of new generations , together with changes in environmental conditions, gradually eliminate the most poorly adapted individuals. Those that survive propagate their genes and efficiency increases over successive generations.”

“The theory that integrates Darwinism and molecular genetics was thus confirmed, clarifying the mechanisms that endow nature with a formidable capacity for optimization in the design of life”

Thus Intelligent Design.

 

[Subsea]

@Subsea can you confirm in this research and your experience that sponges can't really survive just on phyto and pod dosing? The research you posted seems to suggest some level of DOMs/DOCs is necessary for sponges. Which I guess means one needs quite a mature ecosystem with a decent amount of bioload right?

Pods are good for sea apples and cucumbers, sponges feed on pico stuff such as bacteria and parasite cysts like ich.

 

[lil sumpin]

Some of the newer stuff since the ID thread:

I looked at your thread on hitch hiker ID. I could not identify white spots from your picture, but ISpeakfortheseas answered your post.

 

[Subsea]

Reef Aquarium Discussion

Discuss all saltwater and reef aquarium related topics here. Have a question or general aquaria thought? Share it here.

www.reef2reef.com

In this thread, Coral Holibiont, I discuss Angels “white paper” thread

THE CHEMICAL INTERACTION BETWEEN SPECIES AS AN HYPOTHESIS FOR A MATURE TANK

Algae, unavoidable companions. Algae are undoubtedly one of the inhabitants of a reef tank that cause the biggest headaches to hobbyists. In a world idealized by aesthetics, we might wish that these living beings were out of our system...

www.reef2reef.com

@Beuchat
Are you still out there Angel.
Patrick

 

[Subsea]

Some of the newer stuff since the ID thread:

Picture does not help. Have you examined these white spots? Are they soft/firm or mushy and spongy?

 

[Subsea]

Reef Aquarium Discussion

Discuss all saltwater and reef aquarium related topics here. Have a question or general aquaria thought? Share it here.

www.reef2reef.com

In this thread, Coral Holibiont, I discuss Angels “white paper” thread

THE CHEMICAL INTERACTION BETWEEN SPECIES AS AN HYPOTHESIS FOR A MATURE TANK

Algae, unavoidable companions. Algae are undoubtedly one of the inhabitants of a reef tank that cause the biggest headaches to hobbyists. In a world idealized by aesthetics, we might wish that these living beings were out of our system...

www.reef2reef.com

@Beuchat
Are you still out there Angel.
Patrick

Beuchat

Boutique propulsée par PrestaShop

www.beuchat-diving.com

@Beuchat

Angel,
Are you connected with this company?