Sterile Seascape Stress: Is there such a thing as a reef tank that is too clean?

[brandon429]

must not attribute being waste free to dinos, you get dinos from other causes.

here's sixty pages of being waste free: no dinos

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

if being totally clean caused dinos that would be a wrecked tank thread. it's a fixed tank thread though.

people getting (and keeping, for months) dinos has nothing to do with running zero to no detritus.

it's not possible to make reef tanks any cleaner than we've been doing for nine years straight in that thread above. not one time did they get a dinos outbreak. not quarantining (importing known aggressive strains of dinos on things added from pet stores and other reefs) is what causes dinos. what keeps them in control for months on end are the ways the hobby currently battles dinos, where present. that rip clean thread sure has no recurring dinos problems, and we do opposite of what the masses do in reefing.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I run a dirty tank, but everything seems happy

 

[Rugops]

I run a dirty tank, but everything seems happy

Same here. Haven't done a water change in a while.

 

[Cheezle]

Same here. Haven't done a water change in a while.

My montis seem to do better overall when I don't do a weekly or biweekly water change. Not really sure why but yeah, keeping it "dirty" has been more beneficial than I expected

 

[Rugops]

My montis seem to do better overall when I don't do a weekly or biweekly water change. Not really sure why but yeah, keeping it "dirty" has been more beneficial than I expected

I don't because there are other ways to export. My torches grow faster it seems.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

People are going to get a little hard pressed about this comment but oh well.

Yes, your softie tanks can run a little dirty, shoot 20ppm NO3 and Phos through the roof and your Zoas and Toadstool might actually think you.

LPS and some SPS tend to like a little dirty tank as well. Torches, Frogspawn and the euphilia alike will all benefit from the skip of a water change.

Not all tanks are created the same.

However, if you are wanting to keep Acropora, you are going to have to step up the husbandry. The dirty corners are where bad things are. Yes, they benefit from a measurable amount of NO3 and PO, the regular consensus on these is "Clean System" Clean systems are often times really high flow, little to no sand, high export filtration systems and the likes.

A 75 softie tank with a low flow fuge and a water change every 2 months will still grow an amazing looking reef (ask me how I know) however, top end users are big fans of clean systems with clean water. Not many folks achieving full hard to keep acros running around out there doing twice a year water changes and letting the gunk build up in their sumps and skimmer cups. ( I am sure there are one or two so dont come at me screaming)

 

[KrisReef]

Trying to keep my tank clean lead to dinos twice. If the ocean can be poisoned with radioactive waste, chemical run offs, oil spills, etc. then I can feed heavy, dose more aminos than the instructions suggest, broadcast feed, etc. long live detritus

Note to self: Consider dosing radioactive waste to prevent algae growth.

 

[Reefer Matt]

IMO, It's usually the "instagram tanks",etc. that seem like they are clean all the time. (No offense) In reality, they are cleaned just before taking the pictures and videos. Exceptions may apply, but every reef tank grows algae and misc. gunk. I realize I have a youtube channel, but I have no problem showing a "dirty" tank, because I know 99.9 % of Reefers have one at some point.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

IMO, It's usually the "instagram tanks",etc. that seem like they are clean all the time. (No offense) In reality, they are cleaned just before taking the pictures and videos. Exceptions may apply, but every reef tank grows algae and misc. gunk. I realize I have a youtube channel, but I have no problem showing a "dirty" tank, because I know 99.9 % of Reefers have one at some point.

There are two different types of dirty... if you let your glass go for a week that is one thing, you let things build up on the sand bed or bottom that's fine for a while, we all know that's how we do things and yes, you are right, most of these are showcased right after a cleaning.

The difference in it though is that they can be cleaned to that point fairly easy. Siphon off the bottom, clean the glass and you have a photo ready tank, these tanks are not left to rot in unchanged filter socks or uncollected skimmer cups for weeks before the photo is taken.

The husbandry is still there of the water parameters, equipment and overall health of the inhabitants. They are not simply made to look perfect and then it's back to Joe Blow's grease covered hands in it once a week and never looked at.

These tanks all have someone who maintained what matters and keeps them just at what a good cleaning will do to make them photogenic to begin with.

 

[Enderg60]

Currently dealing with super low nutrients in my 6 month old 800g system.

Everything has been very pale since the start, as I expected but recently I blew the rocks to clean out the detritus and after that water change a lot of stuff nearly bleached out.

I ended up dosing nitrates from 0.2 up to 1 and the color is starting to return.

I need more fish.

 

[Alexraptor]

must not attribute being waste free to dinos, you get dinos from other causes.

here's sixty pages of being waste free: no dinos

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

if being totally clean caused dinos that would be a wrecked tank thread. it's a fixed tank thread though.

people getting (and keeping, for months) dinos has nothing to do with running zero to no detritus.

it's not possible to make reef tanks any cleaner than we've been doing for nine years straight in that thread above. not one time did they get a dinos outbreak. not quarantining (importing known aggressive strains of dinos on things added from pet stores and other reefs) is what causes dinos. what keeps them in control for months on end are the ways the hobby currently battles dinos, where present. that rip clean thread sure has no recurring dinos problems, and we do opposite of what the masses do in reefing.

Never said or implied that being detritus free is the "cause" of dinos.

However, it is absolutely a factor as keeping dinos out is all about competition and available nutrients, something which detritus can provide.

That said, if your system lacks the necessary organisms and biodiversity to properly process and fully break down detritus, you're better off without it.

 

[MnFish1]

Honestly, if its too clean, the corals might suffer a bit. We all know that we have to have a bit of dirtyness. the ocean is not clean so....

The ocean is much cleaner than our tanks. Except - at times when there are upwellings of nutrients. So for example (and this is just an example) - I can see feeding some 'coral food' - every 2 weeks. IMHO - the feeding of coral consistently based on manufacturer's recommendations is part of the problem with 'uglies', 'algae

 

[brandon429]

I can see the trend already in place though. most of the nuisance algae forum dinos battles involve a blame on N or P levels which people also associate with waste, too much waste removal throws off N and P levels then dinos are the stated outcome. there's a hesitation to running low-storage systems

but low storage systems with live cured rock: not a dinos risk

so far, these two examples above were well-cured rock with high coral loading, those are invasion-rejecting surfaces that dominate that scape above. if someone has a clean glass scape they can easily siphon up any mats that might form, make changes in a parameter to lessen the invasion growth, and continue on with high flow and quality coral feeding which are all very controlled steps against tank invasions.

clean reefing + high feed in/out rates is an approach that will outpace most invasions, and in the nuisance algae forum nearly all dinos invasions are in sandbedded tanks where aggressive removal isn't an option like in a no-sand tank. having corals so pronounced you can't even see the rock surface is very anti invasion designing

 

[MnFish1]

I can see the trend already in place though. most of the nuisance algae forum dinos battles involve a blame on N or P levels which people also associate with waste, too much waste removal throws off N and P levels then dinos are the stated outcome. there's a hesitation to running low-storage systems

I want to like what you said - but I'm not sure what you're saying. IMHO - there is no ugly based on NP ratios.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

So maybe this is off topic, maybe not. If one wanted to maintain their tank more closer to clean than not, and this tank was >4 years old, couldn’t he simply remove the sand and convert it to a bare bottom? If an argument of sand vs bare for cleanliness what about a conversion from one to the other? Asking for a friend…

 

[MnFish1]

So maybe this is off topic, maybe not. If one wanted to maintain their tank more closer to clean than not, and this tank was >4 years old, couldn’t he simply remove the sand and convert it to a bare bottom? If an argument of sand vs bare for cleanliness what about a conversion from one to the other? Asking for a friend…

yes

 

[Mr. Roboto]

yes

I would NOT recommend one just stripping all the sand out in one go. No. There is a process of removing sand after a tank has been set up for a while. (Especially 4 years)

 

[Reefer Matt]

So maybe this is off topic, maybe not. If one wanted to maintain their tank more closer to clean than not, and this tank was >4 years old, couldn’t he simply remove the sand and convert it to a bare bottom? If an argument of sand vs bare for cleanliness what about a conversion from one to the other? Asking for a friend…

What's your interpretation of clean?

 

[Reefer Matt]

There are two different types of dirty... if you let your glass go for a week that is one thing, you let things build up on the sand bed or bottom that's fine for a while, we all know that's how we do things and yes, you are right, most of these are showcased right after a cleaning.

The difference in it though is that they can be cleaned to that point fairly easy. Siphon off the bottom, clean the glass and you have a photo ready tank, these tanks are not left to rot in unchanged filter socks or uncollected skimmer cups for weeks before the photo is taken.

The husbandry is still there of the water parameters, equipment and overall health of the inhabitants. They are not simply made to look perfect and then it's back to Joe Blow's grease covered hands in it once a week and never looked at.

These tanks all have someone who maintained what matters and keeps them just at what a good cleaning will do to make them photogenic to begin with.

I agree. My interpretation of dirty is the perception of algae on the glass and rocks being dirty. Assuming normal husbandry is done. This perception leads Reefers to strip their tanks chasing a false reality sometimes.

 

[MnFish1]

I would NOT recommend one just stripping all the sand out in one go. No. There is a process of removing sand after a tank has been set up for a while. (Especially 4 years)

I disagree - siphoning out all of the send (depending on the depth) - should not cause a problem