Sterile Seascape Stress: Is there such a thing as a reef tank that is too clean?

[Peace River]

Sterile Seascape Stress: Is there such a thing as a reef tank that is too clean?

You have likely seen pictures of pristine tanks where the water is polished to an extreme and a 5-micron filter sock may not even be challenged. It may seem like there may not even be any water in the tank and the fish and coral are just suspended in air. The sand, if there is any, is bright white and there is not a spec of algae or detritus anywhere to be found. Although that may not be your tank – it certainly isn’t mine – it can feel like this a standard to work toward, but is this an optimal reef environment? Is there such a thing as too clean? Please let us know what you think the optimal balance is for a clean aquarium.

Photo by @robert Denadai


This QOTD is sponsored by: www.dinkinsaquaticgardens.com

"Our mission is to help save the reefs by providing the highest quality live reef foods for every aquarium - from small biocubes to mid-sized reef aquariums, to giant aquaculture facilities"

 

[BanZI29]

Honestly, if its too clean, the corals might suffer a bit. We all know that we have to have a bit of dirtyness. the ocean is not clean so....

 

[IntrinsicReef]

I saw a recent ReefBum interview with Dr. Sanjay Joshi and he asked " WHY ARE YOU ALL SCARED OF DETRITUS?" It was hilarious and now I want a shirt made.

 

[brandon429]

I'd like to see Sanjay run a tank transfer thread where nobody rinses out detritus, they just move it all from old sandbeds into new ones. He'd have crashes by page 5 and back out of the thread never to return. I'm sure in his house it's neutral, but not for the public.

that reef above is just fine and can live indefinitely being that clean, in fact it'll run better than average tanks with six inches of unkempt sand all stored up with waste/detritus. Being that clean above isn't harmful, you can see the quality corals and quality aged rock...it allows for increased suspended feed quality because there are fewer catchment zones (sand) in the tank to catch and hold food until it rots. that above is an oligotrophic, high current, high feed-sustain in suspension ability tank, it's an ideal reef to never get OTS and to live longer than reefs that are designed to catch and retain waste, causing old tank syndrome.

uneaten feed in that tank above is likely to be swept up in currents and exported, or removed harmlessly if it collects in the corners of the bare bottom system. this is ideal throughput.

sterility impacts live rock quality: it is absolutely not required to store waste inside a reef tank to make it mature/good/nonsterile

all you need is quality live rock vs dry rock with no biome, that reef above has the quality rock approach and it'll live indefinitely with no biological lifespan limit compared to the common six inch deep sandbed tank that can easily kill itself if the waste is upwelled at a bad time.

does that reef above look like sterile white barely cycled rock? no, that's key. use matured rock for oligotrophic systems. there is no harm in designing a reef like that, it's harder to get invaded by various organisms (because you can clean them preemptively without systemic upset, that's mostly glass surfaces in there) and it's easier to manage with simple filtration approaches.

there are no reef sages / authors that run tank transfer threads for a reason: it's not tanks in their own home. being a master of tanks in someone's home where detritus doesn't matter does not mean they have one iota of control when other people post 400 tanks for them to type out a safe move pattern, then we watch it unfold live time.

On reefbuilders recently I saw an article from Mike about doing tank transfers and getting the inevitable 'cloud' which again only happens safely in his home via the way his reef is designed and it's care regimen. in a public work thread, where people post live-time for move plans, that will absolutely kill some reefs and he'd be required to rewrite those advices.

reef authors are notoriously absent on forum work threads because they cannot craft the outcomes ahead of time, it's scary.

detritus matters, it's location within the reef tank-it's a co-cause of old tank syndrome.

aerated detritus, laying on a sump floor, isn't the same as six year stratified waste sandbed detritus, which can and does kill tanks and fish routinely, I have the example threads handy.

 

[brandon429]

that reef tank above could be moved to a new home, a new state or a new house without any of the detritus risks a common reef tank has during such a move planning. if you wanted to design the longest possible lifespan reef tank, biologically, that reef above is the way. every aspect of it is opposite of old tank syndrome 1998 designs we still use by and large today

that reef above manages oxygen levels for fish and animals better than a typical reef with a sandbed does. it runs lower on bacteria vs a crudded-up reef tank, which is better (more aerobic bacteria is NOT better in reefing like we've been trained to think it is) this above is a better balance for long term reefing IF quality live rock is used at the start.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

I'd like to see Sanjay run a tank transfer thread where nobody rinses out detritus, they just move it all from old sandbeds into new ones. He'd have crashes by page 5 and back out of the thread never to return. I'm sure in his house it's neutral, but not for the public.

that reef above is just fine and can live indefinitely being that clean, in fact it'll run better than average tanks with six inches of unkempt sand all stored up with waste/detritus. Being that clean above isn't harmful, you can see the quality corals and quality aged rock...it allows for increased suspended feed quality because there are fewer catchment zones (sand) in the tank to catch and hold food until it rots. that above is an oligotrophic, high current, high feed-sustain in suspension ability tank, it's an ideal reef to never get OTS and to live longer than reefs that are designed to catch and retain waste, causing old tank syndrome.

uneaten feed in that tank above is likely to be swept up in currents and exported, or removed harmlessly if it collects in the corners of the bare bottom system. this is ideal throughput.

sterility impacts live rock quality: it is absolutely not required to store waste inside a reef tank to make it mature/good/nonsterile

all you need is quality live rock vs dry rock with no biome, that reef above has the quality rock approach and it'll live indefinitely with no biological lifespan limit compared to the common six inch deep sandbed tank that can easily kill itself if the waste is upwelled at a bad time.

does that reef above look like sterile white barely cycled rock? no, that's key. use matured rock for oligotrophic systems. there is no harm in designing a reef like that, it's harder to get invaded by various organisms (because you can clean them preemptively without systemic upset, that's mostly glass surfaces in there) and it's easier to manage with simple filtration approaches.

there are no reef sages / authors that run tank transfer threads for a reason: it's not tanks in their own home. being a master of tanks in someone's home where detritus doesn't matter does not mean they have one iota of control when other people post 400 tanks for them to type out a safe move pattern, then we watch it unfold live time.

On reefbuilders recently I saw an article from Mike about doing tank transfers and getting the inevitable 'cloud' which again only happens safely in his home via the way his reef is designed and it's care regimen. in a public work thread, where people post live-time for move plans, that will absolutely kill some reefs and he'd be required to rewrite those advices.

reef authors are notoriously absent on forum work threads because they cannot craft the outcomes ahead of time, it's scary.

detritus matters, it's location within the reef tank-it's a co-cause of old tank syndrome.

aerated detritus, laying on a sump floor, isn't the same as six year stratified waste sandbed detritus, which can and does kill tanks and fish routinely, I have the example threads handy.

I understand I added that quote with no context. The context was detritus settling out in sumps and in sand. I understand that disturbing a sand bed and suspending that detritus into the water column can be devastating. Most anyone that has disturbed an old sand bed does. I always replace sand during tank moves. That said, some systems don't require moves and sit in place for many years. I am not arguing that ultra-clean bare bottom isn't an effective strategy. It clearly is. I am just reminding people that it was done differently and successfully for decades before the dosing nitrogen/phosphorus ultra-clean method. Different strokes for different folks

 

[brandon429]

well said

 

[Mr. Roboto]

I have been in this hobby for years and worked in it almost just as many and one thing I can say is, the old way is the old way. Live Rock and Bare Bottom tanks with super efficient filtration systems are proving that they are the way. Clean tanks are healthy tanks with less risk.

Do I always like it, no, some look too sterile. Is there something about a 20 year old tank with the grime still in the back corners and softies growing everywhere you look and the fish that has been living in the overflow for years, yes. They are cool but, we have seen over the years of water testing and additions of dosing, feeding more accurately and keeping the right balance of fish, CuC and Coral that a clean tank is just better overall.

Old stable tanks are one thing and we all love them but new, well kept clean tanks are just as hardy and grow amazing corals just as well if not better as this hobby has proven during its progression.

 

[Jasonak]

I appreciate them both.

 

[Borat]

In Kazakistan we always ensure that water contains less than 30% dissolved solids...

 

[Just John]

I don't know if super clean is good or bad, but I would like to have one like this for a month

 

[brandon429]

clean reefing is more transmissible / copyable to others as a successful method compared to sand on the bottom + pile in as much surface area as you can in the water flow- reefing. you can get more public reefs into compliance using this way above than you can using the old ways...less invasion, less tank crashes at the one year mark for any group. that way above lets you focus on easy waste export as it piles on the bottom, easy invader wipe up as they pile on the bottom, you can down-adjust light power to balance it all much faster than if you have an aged sandbed leaking waste and housing invaders against all treatments. that system above can be fed better than a typical reef because the food won't pile into every crevice and be completely retained.

that picture above is also an NSA aquascape at the same time. you can't even see the live rock, it's all corals as the primary surface area. negative aquascaping is easier to clean and you can have stronger currents in the system. you can carry as many fish in that system above as you can can one with 200 pounds of saxby live rock arranged in a total wall / excessive surface area

that picture above is very advanced, few if any reefs in the main forum currently are set up that way. they are set up: sand on the bottom, live rock surface area greatly outpaces coral surface area in the pic, the sump has tons of surface area in need of regular cleaning as well. that pic above is very rare/advanced way of designing reefs. that design advances oligotrophic reefing vs eutrophic reefing at it's core.

 

[MnFish1]

Sterile Seascape Stress: Is there such a thing as a reef tank that is too clean?

You have likely seen pictures of pristine tanks where the water is polished to an extreme and a 5-micron filter sock may not even be challenged. It may seem like there may not even be any water in the tank and the fish and coral are just suspended in air. The sand, if there is any, is bright white and there is not a spec of algae or detritus anywhere to be found. Although that may not be your tank – it certainly isn’t mine – it can feel like this a standard to work toward, but is this an optimal reef environment? Is there such a thing as too clean? Please let us know what you think the optimal balance is for a clean aquarium.

Photo by @robert Denadai


This QOTD is sponsored by: www.dinkinsaquaticgardens.com

"Our mission is to help save the reefs by providing the highest quality live reef foods for every aquarium - from small biocubes to mid-sized reef aquariums, to giant aquaculture facilities"

My guess is that in at least some of these 'pristine tanks' some of the cleaning, etc was done just before the picture was taken. However, I like the look of a clean tank. It doesn't cause 'stress' for me. I think it's in the eye of the beholder?

 

[brandon429]

nice call/ if that tank had some coralline spots on it that would speak of age a lot better. still though, as long as those corals grew in there from nubs vs being transplanted in there it's a great setup. some led's just wont grow coralline anymore on the glass like the old ways.

that picture reminds me of Sunnyx's tank, the one with the big thread on adding cycling bacteria routinely to grow corals/accessory feeding trick. his tank meets that criteria above pretty much, and indeed did grow corals from nubs into those branches.

 

[MikeCRK]

It cannot be sterile.

If you have worms, you are never lonely!

 

[Cheezle]

Trying to keep my tank clean lead to dinos twice. If the ocean can be poisoned with radioactive waste, chemical run offs, oil spills, etc. then I can feed heavy, dose more aminos than the instructions suggest, broadcast feed, etc. long live detritus

 

[shwareefer]

No offence to @robert but that tank looks like it was assembled two hours before the photo was taken and the corals and fish haven't realised they are going to starve yet. It's gorgeous but I have zero goals of trying to acheive that.

 

[brandon429]

@Cheezle it was starting with dry rock, bright lights and no quarantine of incoming stock items that caused the dinos. that particular tank in the example photograph is much more immune to them.

just so that we don't go down the path of 'that tank above was faked' read this thread, here's the same type reef fully maturing on file:

Extreme Water Clarity and Cyano Eradication, Made Easy!

Edit 10/092023: Note that I have tweaked the formula a bit. You can find an updated video here: Coral Snow Link: Coral Snow Hello all! I have been reefing now for about 25 years, and over those many years I have picked up many tips, tricks, and best habits/practices. From a hobbyist and...

www.reef2reef.com

Sunnyx:


Sunny uses sand, but it's not waste impacted we can see in the cross section. his scape is just like the one from this tank, and his walls are free of coralline. watch this reef above mature into deer antlers in the thread.

Here's Sunny's ultra clean reefing tank on page 32 of that thread, maturing:

still clean and free of waste pockets, no coralline on the glass, only the corals are much bigger. rock is now obscured. all growth time documented in the thread/legit NSA scape reef tank there below and above

 

[Fire Shrimp]

I don't like the look of a sterile system like that, it isn't how the ocean looks! I want the back covered in algae and the rocks full of life besides just corals.

 

[Alexraptor]

Definitely. I'm currently struggling with dino outbreaks in three tanks because I've been "too good" at keeping nutrients in check.

My healthiest, and dino free, reef is my 15G mixed, with very fine sand mixed with detritus. I've actually be siphoning and rinsing parts of my sand bed lately, due to too much particulates floating around, but I've decided to stop as my phosphates have dropped down to 0.013 ppm. They were 0.023 in June, and 0.05 a year before that.