Stocking reality check please!

[FlickaSA]

I'm planning a nice big tank and what to do a reality check with the people in the know on my stocking list.
Tank design:
L-shape = 280cm x 60cm x 70cm + 130cm x 60cm x 70cm.
Total volume = 454 gallons

Scape will include a section of deep sand for burrowing/burying species. The rest will be shallow sand bed for extra bio filtration and copepods etc.
Loads of rock in the form of walls, caves, swim throughs, islands, open space etc.. As much variety as I can manage to build.

There will be coral. I'm aware that some of the fish on the list may nibble or otherwise terrorise corals and am prepared to move what I need to move. Only cheap coral that I don't mind being nibbled if it happens.

There will be a big sump with refugium and skimmer and reactors and UV.
Three overflows with two return pumps.
Plenty of wavemakers/powerheads allowing for some quieter spots for fish resting.

Planned stocking list (in order of introduction, grouped according to adding stages):
7 Schooling bannerfin
7 squareback/lyretail anthias

2 three stripe damsels
1 bird wrasse
1 arceye hawkfish
1 red Cori's wrasse

1 bristletooth tang
1 chocolate tang
1 scopas tang
1 purple tang
1 hippo tang
1 naso tang
1 foxface rabbitfish

1 starts n stripes puffer
1 Niger Trigger

 

[Subsea]

I'm planning a nice big tank and what to do a reality check with the people in the know on my stocking list.
Tank design:
L-shape = 280cm x 60cm x 70cm + 130cm x 60cm x 70cm.
Total volume = 454 gallons

Scape will include a section of deep sand for burrowing/burying species. The rest will be shallow sand bed for extra bio filtration and copepods etc.
Loads of rock in the form of walls, caves, swim throughs, islands, open space etc.. As much variety as I can manage to build.

There will be coral. I'm aware that some of the fish on the list may nibble or otherwise terrorise corals and am prepared to move what I need to move. Only cheap coral that I don't mind being nibbled if it happens.

There will be a big sump with refugium and skimmer and reactors and UV.
Three overflows with two return pumps.
Plenty of wavemakers/powerheads allowing for some quieter spots for fish resting.

Planned stocking list (in order of introduction, grouped according to adding stages):
7 Schooling bannerfin
7 squareback/lyretail anthias

2 three stripe damsels
1 bird wrasse
1 arceye hawkfish
1 red Cori's wrasse

1 bristletooth tang
1 chocolate tang
1 scopas tang
1 purple tang
1 hippo tang
1 naso tang
1 foxface rabbitfish

1 starts n stripes puffer
1 Niger Trigger

I would reconsider the 3 stripe damsels as they get mean as they age. Banner cardinal fish show the same strips and they are not mean, if fact, they make good dither fish and swim in the open.

 

[FlickaSA]

I would reconsider the 3 stripe damsels as they get mean as they age. Banner cardinal fish show the same strips and they are not mean, if fact, they make good dither fish and swim in the open.

Unfortunately, I've had these two surrendered to me from someone who found they were attacking his fish in a 70g tank (don't ask me why they were in there to begin with...). The larger of the two has his own tank at this stage, the smaller one is in a 140gallon with my current tangs and is a well behaved fish. I will keep an eye on her and see what I think of her later on. If they are terrors, they will be sumped. Thanks for that input, appreciate the honesty.

 

[Zionas]

First of all, congrats on the tank size! That’s pretty cool. You have plenty to work with given your volume and it’s only the really, really big stuff that won’t fit.

I like how you’re preparing for big filtration and UV. The addition to this set would be a good set of lids, just in case. Usually 1/4” mesh is the smallest commercial lid makers can do in terms of the nets, I seen 1/8” but not everyone will make that so 1/4” is about the best.

The lighting and flow will depend on what corals you want. Do you want softies dominant, LPS, SPS, mixed? Mixed really means compromise. Something will be adjusting and making do as you’ll have to find the balance that works for different types of corals.

The Bannerfish I don’t know if keeping them as a school even in big tanks is doable. There’s a chance they’ll whittle down to whatever numbers they see as comfortable for themselves. They’re a group fish in the sea, but the thing with nature is that these fish found in big schools don’t “like” being with each other all the time, it’s a survival mechanism. Given our tanks without natural predators, we see with Chromis how it’s never a guarantee the number you buy will be the number you end up with. Not saying there isn’t anyone who hasn’t done it successfully, but it’s a gamble.

Not many, actually no one I know of has tried this with Heniochus. And they’re on the bigger side for a Butterfly, given your Tangs that might be too many big fish even for your tank size. It’s about space and psychological territory too.

I don’t really know about this one, sorry.

The Anthias in your tank might stand a chance with those numbers. Squarebacks get large for a Pseudanthias, with that number regardless of species I would expect more than 1 male. Not sure what happens then, although I read an article by Matt Wandell (at Steinhart) about a smaller species in one of their displays that had about 7-8 of them and there was like 2 males and 1 sub-male? They seemed to get along fine.

The Damsels get aggressive and can live longer than people think for a small fish. There’s smaller, more peaceful ones. Most would recommend something like Azures (the blue upper body with yellow bellies), Talbot’s. Some would recommend the Starcki Damsels (more deepwater in most places).

Don’t know much about the Bird Wrasses except they’re active and swim around a lot. I think your tank’s big enough for one.

Hawkfish might harass smaller fish and with inverts it’s a gamble, Arc Eye is one of the bigger species compared to the Flame and Longnose. Cool fish though and I’m not saying people haven’t kept them with smaller fish and inverts.

I don’t think any of the Tangs or the Foxface would get too big for your tank. I’d remove one of the Zebrasoma (maybe the Scopas) for territory and bioload, but otherwise I think it’s OK.

Don’t know much about the Trigger and Puffer, sorry. Niger Triggers I believe get sort of large and grow quickly, but I don’t know. Red Coris Wrasse I don’t know how big they get in captivity but they’ll need sand as the genus burrows in sand. I think there’s a Japanese guy who has one in his FOWLR for about a decade (look up the account bokkenyan on Instagram) and it’s like 8”.

Not an expert.

Edit: It looks like you have something similar to a linked system, if you could call it that? Maybe you could “compartmentalize.” What I mean by that is, the smaller fish can go into your smaller section, and the bigger fish that would really do best with the extra length and width go into the other. And the ones you are considering multiples of. What this *could* look like is, not saying that’s what it will look like is that your Zebrasoma and Bristletooth could go into the smaller section. Many keep this combo in 4ft and 5ft tanks.

The big Wrasses, bigger Tangs, the Foxface and maybe the Bannerfish, the Puffer / Trigger, and the Anthias can go into the bigger section. The Hawkfish.

And what about smaller fish? Dwarf Angels. IMO no tank should be without an Angel or two, hehe.

You can keep most of the big Angels in the big part. For the smaller section, you can do just about any Centropyge, Genicanthus, maybe one of the smaller “medium sized” Angels like an Apolemichthys or one of the smaller Chaetodontoplus.

 

[FlickaSA]

First of all, congrats on the tank size! That’s pretty cool. You have plenty to work with given your volume and it’s only the really, really big stuff that won’t fit.

I like how you’re preparing for big filtration and UV. The addition to this set would be a good set of lids, just in case. Usually 1/4” mesh is the smallest commercial lid makers can do in terms of the nets, I seen 1/8” but not everyone will make that so 1/4” is about the best.

The lighting and flow will depend on what corals you want. Do you want softies dominant, LPS, SPS, mixed? Mixed really means compromise. Something will be adjusting and making do as you’ll have to find the balance that works for different types of corals.

The Bannerfish I don’t know if keeping them as a school even in big tanks is doable. There’s a chance they’ll whittle down to whatever numbers they see as comfortable for themselves. They’re a group fish in the sea, but the thing with nature is that these fish found in big schools don’t “like” being with each other all the time, it’s a survival mechanism. Given our tanks without natural predators, we see with Chromis how it’s never a guarantee the number you buy will be the number you end up with. Not saying there isn’t anyone who hasn’t done it successfully, but it’s a gamble.

Not many, actually no one I know of has tried this with Heniochus. And they’re on the bigger side for a Butterfly, given your Tangs that might be too many big fish even for your tank size. It’s about space and psychological territory too.

I don’t really know about this one, sorry.

The Anthias in your tank might stand a chance with those numbers. Squarebacks get large for a Pseudanthias, with that number regardless of species I would expect more than 1 male. Not sure what happens then, although I read an article by Matt Wandell (at Steinhart) about a smaller species in one of their displays that had about 7-8 of them and there was like 2 males and 1 sub-male? They seemed to get along fine.

The Damsels get aggressive and can live longer than people think for a small fish. There’s smaller, more peaceful ones. Most would recommend something like Azures (the blue upper body with yellow bellies), Talbot’s. Some would recommend the Starcki Damsels (more deepwater in most places).

Don’t know much about the Bird Wrasses except they’re active and swim around a lot. I think your tank’s big enough for one.

Hawkfish might harass smaller fish and with inverts it’s a gamble, Arc Eye is one of the bigger species compared to the Flame and Longnose. Cool fish though and I’m not saying people haven’t kept them with smaller fish and inverts.

I don’t think any of the Tangs or the Foxface would get too big for your tank. I’d remove one of the Zebrasoma (maybe the Scopas) for territory and bioload, but otherwise I think it’s OK.

Don’t know much about the Trigger and Puffer, sorry. Niger Triggers I believe get sort of large and grow quickly, but I don’t know. Red Coris Wrasse I don’t know how big they get in captivity but they’ll need sand as the genus burrows in sand. I think there’s a Japanese guy who has one in his FOWLR for about a decade (look up the account bokkenyan on Instagram) and it’s like 8”.

Not an expert.

Edit: It looks like you have something similar to a linked system, if you could call it that? Maybe you could “compartmentalize.” What I mean by that is, the smaller fish can go into your smaller section, and the bigger fish that would really do best with the extra length and width go into the other. And the ones you are considering multiples of. What this *could* look like is, not saying that’s what it will look like is that your Zebrasoma and Bristletooth could go into the smaller section. Many keep this combo in 4ft and 5ft tanks.

The big Wrasses, bigger Tangs, the Foxface and maybe the Bannerfish, the Puffer / Trigger, and the Anthias can go into the bigger section. The Hawkfish.

And what about smaller fish? Dwarf Angels. IMO no tank should be without an Angel or two, hehe.

You can keep most of the big Angels in the big part. For the smaller section, you can do just about any Centropyge, Genicanthus, maybe one of the smaller “medium sized” Angels like an Apolemichthys or one of the smaller Chaetodontoplus.

Thanks for all that.

It'll be mostly softies, maybe a couple of easier going hard corals, but with a puffer and trigger in there, I'm not going to risk anything pricey. I like the softies anyhow :)

Good comment on the bannerfins, maybe I'll replace those with some dwarf angels so I can have a few of those in a tank that size.

My red Coris is currently in a 140g with dsb, so she's going to love the extra space. Bird wrasse is a super active fish and she's running the tank in a 50g long at the moment. The Cori's is super funny with the flipping rocks and clam shells and what not, but I know what to expect with the two wrasses.

My main reason for not having too many small fish is the potential snack sized options for the puffer, trigger and hawkfish. The two damsels have been surrendered to me, so I'll probably pop them in and see how it goes. I'm going to make sure that my rockwork allows for me to put dividers in if I need to separate fish in a hurry and catch them more easily - just in case they turn into a**holes.

Will consider putting the scopas in a different tank - I'll be putting all my little fish in my 140g with my second foxface, so he could potentially go in there if there's issues with the purple. Purple is a major diva (currently in my 140g) and will need the extra space.

The plan is one tank in an L shape rather than two tanks in a system - more space is better as far as I'm aware, and the L (in my head at any rate) gives a neat line of sight break and options for high and low flow options.

 

[Michael Hughes]

I don't have experience with any of these species yet, but if I had a tank of that size, it would be hard for me to skip the bannerfish. Such a beautiful fish. Just be aware there are two very similar species, one of which (Heniochus diphreutes) is reef safe but the other (H. acuminatus) will eat your corals.

Something else I'd look into due to the size of your system is the harlequin tusk. One of my absolute favorite saltwater fish but not one that will fit with my own stocking list.

Following along as this sounds like a really fun tank!

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Bird wrasses are amazing fish, however, if you are adding large ones, be careful, they will eat smaller fish. They get large.

Here a few photos of mine.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Where are you finding the schooling banner fish? I’ve always wanted 5 of them but haven’t seen them for sale since the mid 90s. Here is one of the standard ones. They get large.

 

[Michael Hughes]

Here a few photos of mine.

Beautiful tank! Do you have a build thread?

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Beautiful tank! Do you have a build thread?

Na, too busy to do that.