Store water killed my fish

[chris510]

Bought two new fish from LFS. I made a rookie mistake to pour their water into my tank when adding the fish. The two new fish and two of my previous fish died during the next few days along with two shrimp. My Nasarius snails now look unhealthy and mostly stay above the sand. My two clowns are still alive.

Spoke with LFS and they said copper and medicine are in some of their tanks. All my other parameters were normal before and after adding their fish and water. So does that make sense that all these things died due to their water?
I changed about 40% water during the week. What else should be done? I changed the carbon filters too.

If their fish were used to the LFS water, why did they die so quickly in my tanks?

 

[blaxsun]

There are two many unknown variables here to really offer an educated opinion, but did you properly float and then acclimate the fish or did you just pour them from the bag into the tank? You can't use copper on invertebrates - so that could definitely be the issue there.

I would look at adding some Cuprisorb and Poly Filter to try and remove as much as you can from the tank (I don't know what effect this may have at this point).

 

[Rmckoy]

Although it’s possible First I would ask how long the tank was running prior to adding the new fish and water
If their water could be the culprit I would assume their system where the fish came from would be showing some sort of signs .
How long were the fish in the bag ,
Were they drip acclimated or how long did they float to adjust temp .
Did you test salinity of their water compared to yours ?

as mentioned above there are too many variables but ime . I’ve never lost a fish that I could point at the lfs water as the issue

 

[vetteguy53081]

Bought two new fish from LFS. I made a rookie mistake to pour their water into my tank when adding the fish. The two new fish and two of my previous fish died during the next few days along with two shrimp. My Nasarius snails now look unhealthy and mostly stay above the sand. My two clowns are still alive.

Spoke with LFS and they said copper and medicine are in some of their tanks. All my other parameters were normal before and after adding their fish and water. So does that make sense that all these things died due to their water?
I changed about 40% water during the week. What else should be done? I changed the carbon filters too.

If their fish were used to the LFS water, why did they die so quickly in my tanks?

Sorry to hear and happens frequenrly. Always test purchased water
" FISH DONT TALK - TEST KITS DO !! "

 

[Auquanut]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that your snails would have been affected first and more drastically than the fish by the small amount of copper and/or meds introduced with the LFS water. Maybe some other pathogen, parasite or disease introduced?

Any symptoms with the fish you already had before they died?

 

[Rmckoy]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that your snails would have been affected first and more drastically than the fish by the small amount of copper and/or meds introduced with the LFS water. Maybe some other pathogen, parasite or disease introduced?

Any symptoms with the fish you already had before they died?

If it was their water , wouldn’t there be signs in their tanks ?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

All the above are good points.

I also ask what is the tank size? Its suspicious that a small amount of polluted water can contaminate and kill all fish overnight?

 

[Rmckoy]

All the above are good points.

I also ask what is the tank size? It’s suspicious that a small amount of polluted water can contaminate and kill all fish overnight?

“The solution to pollution is dilution“
The small amount of water dumped into a larger volume of water will become less toxic . And why I question the fish at the lfs , or the fish in the bag prior to opening .
If they were shipped hours there would be ammonia that spikes as soon as the open bag is exposed to oxygen . And why a long drip after long shipment isn’t advised .
but for a short trip from a local store
To home and opened and dumped in to the dt
Salinity could cause similar stress but death overnight is unlikely salinity shock wouldn’t kill the fish that were already acclimated and established . But adding water high with ammonia will ….

 

[Joepie]

We do not know your tank size. Let (as example) we suppose 250 liter. A lfs transport fish mostly in max 1-2 liter bags, so copper and medicine will be diluted more than 100 times. So to speak then a homeopatic (not working) dilution. Again we do not know the size. i do not know the death cause of your fish and CUC. The new fish transported a infectious disease? Another possibility is that the new fish and water were not the reason of the drama. But some drama happened in the tank itself, without correlation with the new inmates and water. So not a causal relation.

 

[Fishyfish22]

what if it's both the water and the fish?
fish could be carrying velvet, whiping out the rest of the fish overnight

at the same time, copper from the water could be stressing out/killing the inverts

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

“The solution to pollution is dilution“
The small amount of water dumped into a larger volume of water will become less toxic . And why I question the fish at the lfs , or the fish in the bag prior to opening .
If they were shipped hours there would be ammonia that spikes as soon as the open bag is exposed to oxygen . And why a long drip after long shipment isn’t advised .
but for a short trip from a local store
To home and opened and dumped in to the dt
Salinity could cause similar stress but death overnight is unlikely salinity shock wouldn’t kill the fish that were already acclimated and established . But adding water high with ammonia will ….

‘The solution to pollution is dilution’ is one of my favorite ecology axioms. It’s very true.

One thing I would add is that even if the store water had super high ammonium, it would be instantly a) diluted, b) used up directly by algae, and c) whatever the algae doesn’t get will be oxidized by bacteria.

The ammonium would be an issue for about 10 minutes.

 

[reefiniteasy]

If it was their water , wouldn’t there be signs in their tanks ?

This is an interesting comment and got me thinking. Here in Central Florida Living Reef runs copper and prazi in their fish system. I assume at a level to suppress any issue going on with their fish. I run a full qt and have never lost a fish from them. Now Top Shelf Aquatics runs no meds in their system and on more than one occasion I’ve purchased a fish that has died of parasites like Uronema. Also, quite often when I walk the store, there is a dead fish here and there. Living Reef, never see one I believe because they medicate/hide it.

Once the medicated lfs water was diluted, whatever the fish had could have taken over and spread and I don’t think there would be signs in their system that is medicated.

I think the medicated lfs system helps to jumpstart my qt but sick fish are everywhere. This is probably just a coincidence.

 

[Sean Clark]

I'll be the "bad" guy here.
First never put anything into your system that you have not tested yourself.

Second odds are this store water did not kill your stuff. Correlation does not equal causation; this is a common Trope in our Hobby. Find someone to blame and run with it. This will not help you become a better reefer. Taking the time to understand what actually happened will serve you far better than placing blame on that one thing that you did.

 

[Sump Crab]

I would bet you have a new tank that ammonia spiked when adding too many fish to fast.

 

[jabberwock]

‘The solution to pollution is dilution’ is one of my favorite ecology axioms. It’s very true.

One thing I would add is that even if the store water had super high ammonium, it would be instantly a) diluted, b) used up directly by algae, and c) whatever the algae doesn’t get will be oxidized by bacteria.

The ammonium would be an issue for about 10 minutes.

This is why it is ok to pee in the pool...

 

[dstockwell]

Got to agree with above posts. How large is your system, the likelihood of such a small amount of water killing doesn’t sound right.

 

[Rmckoy]

This is why it is ok to pee in the pool...

Is it really ok though ?
It won’t hurt you or your friends . But as soon as your friends learn you just peed in the pool , you no longer have friends swimming with you .
Moral of the story … please don’t pee in the pool !

 

[jabberwock]

Got to agree with above posts. How large is your system, the likelihood of such a small amount of water killing doesn’t make sens.

and tank age.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

This is why it is ok to pee in the pool...

 

[chris510]

Hi all
Thanks so much for the feedback! I’m responding to as many of the questions as I can.
- Tank is 40 gal cube, Aquatop. 6 months old. I’ve kept ~4 fish and a cleaner shrimp and snails. During this time, parameters and livestock did ok. Previously, I only had 1 death and 1 jumper.
- New fish came in bag the size of a small shopping bag (1 pint?).
- Oh, I also bought an Indo Gold Torch that day (Black Friday sale)
- LFS told me to get 20lbs sand originally. And in a cube, it’s about 2 inch high. I did a water change the morning of getting new fish. Perhaps I stirred up some trapped chemicals from the sand?
- Before adding new fish, none of the previous ones showed any odd behavior.
- When adding new fish, my 6 line Wrasse did chase them around. So, the two new guys did show some panic. Later, they hid out in their own corners. For the 4 new and old ones, they died with 5 days.
- I floated the bag for about 2 hours, then poured it in. No quarantine, no drip. I did not test their water. But I did test my parameters after, and the only thing that went up was the nitrate to 50ppm.

- Before and after params based on Saltmaster test kit and some strips. Only thing increased was Nitrate (20 to 50). Hm, I just realized now that the copper stayed the same afterwards…

Ammonium - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20 —> 50
Salinity - 1.026
PH - 7.8
Phosphate - .25
Iron - 0
Copper - 0
Chlorine - 0

I'm still pretty new to this. So not sure what other signs to look for. Thanks again.