Strictly Pump, Live Rock, and Live Sand with No Water Change: (Flow an Rock method without water change) Is it Possible?
- Thread starter Clowny1221
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sure. but IME a tank with no. filtration AND no water changes doesn’t seem feasible/sustainable
Edit add: I thought there was already some history here…interested in others input
Edit add: I thought there was already some history here…interested in others input
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blecki
Well-Known Member
Sure, but that's not 'no filtration'. Your live rock is the primary filtration in any setup.
But it won't last very long without some kind of nitrate export. You could do a deep sand bed to consume the nitrate but that's going to take a long time to mature and start functioning. And the benefits of a skimmer or refugium beyond just filtration can't be understated. A skimmer also oxygenates the water and removes surface film; refugium processes and exports nitrate - I only manage to not do water changes when I'm running both.
But it won't last very long without some kind of nitrate export. You could do a deep sand bed to consume the nitrate but that's going to take a long time to mature and start functioning. And the benefits of a skimmer or refugium beyond just filtration can't be understated. A skimmer also oxygenates the water and removes surface film; refugium processes and exports nitrate - I only manage to not do water changes when I'm running both.
You can run a tank without mechanical filtration, but - as mentioned - you'll need a way to export nutrients. Generally people aiming for a natural setup use macroalgae for that from what I've seen.
Forgot I had this post earlier:
Well, addressing the natural filter portion of your question first, yes it is possible (and the second link below is the build thread for a 17 gallon tank that runs a "natural" filtration system like you describe):
Mixed reef tank with no mechanical filtration (Natural Filtration)
Hi, as the title says, has anyone successfully done this method? I'm really interested in this method and challenge as it doesn't really have any mechanical filtration except for a powerhead/wavemaker, and the tank only depends on the sandbed and live rock. I got inspired by Dannys Aquarium from...www.reef2reef.com
17g (70L) "Filterless" nano cube build.
11/9/2022 ; Hi everyone. Starting off a new adventure with a new technique. Im building a cubic 16 inch tank starting from dry rock and sand. I will try my best to not use any MECHANICAL filtration (ie filter sponges etc) as much as possible (inspired by Dannys Aquarium from YouTube). The most...HOW??
Here's a crazy 1. I see these nano reefs with a few LPS and soft coral in lobbies around, with a HOB skimmer and nothing else, clearly neglected, power heads disintegrating and falling apart. Yet the coral survives. Brown, usually, not many vibrant colors. But the clown fish are fat and...
blecki
Well-Known Member
Well there are a whole bunch of processes going on in the ocean and it's all at unfathomable scales.
There are lots of ways it deals with filth (probably mostly just burying it in mud where aerobic bacteria eat it) but probably the more relevant thing is just that the ocean is really, really, incredibly, freaking, huge. Even where life is packed in on a reef it doesn't approach the fish-per-gallon of our tanks. The ocean is like keeping a single goldfish in an olympic swimming pool except even that's twenty times too small. The ocean has 100 million gallons of water per fish.
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Clowny1221
Community Member
Thanks so much! I think that’s a good way to approach
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Clowny1221
Community Member
Yep, that kind of vast amount would counteract the amount of exports. Thanks for that explanation!
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Clowny1221
Community Member
Also I was thinking, would maybe a water change once a month be feasible? I know from reading “The Reef Aquarium” by Charles Delbeek, the Lee Chin Eng method only required live seeded rock, air stone, and replenishing from natural sea water from the ocean. He said “he reported success without regular water changes.” I am curious about this.
rtparty
2500 Club Member
It’s like getting a car and then trying to figure out how to do as little as possible to keep it going. It’s not going to end well long term. A little bit of maintenance goes a long way for cars and aquariums.
Depending on the size of tank, a 10% weekly water change isn’t tough or expensive. I ran a 24g JBJ Nano cube for 8 years on weekly water changes and dosing 2 part a couple times a week as numbers would drop before water change day. Only other filtration I ran outside of live rock was some filter floss in the back chamber to pull larger chunks. I only had to clean and replace that floss every few weeks.
So minimal maintenance and work is doable with the right livestock choices but totally hands off, zero maintenance is a recipe for disaster.
Depending on the size of tank, a 10% weekly water change isn’t tough or expensive. I ran a 24g JBJ Nano cube for 8 years on weekly water changes and dosing 2 part a couple times a week as numbers would drop before water change day. Only other filtration I ran outside of live rock was some filter floss in the back chamber to pull larger chunks. I only had to clean and replace that floss every few weeks.
So minimal maintenance and work is doable with the right livestock choices but totally hands off, zero maintenance is a recipe for disaster.
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Clowny1221
Community Member
I agree. So no maintenance would be an issue but I am guessing monthly would be fine, or would it have to be weekly? Also I am still curious as to how Lee Chin Eng went without water change. It is a mystery
This has been covered a bunch, but here are a few points.
First, there is no such thing as NEVER changing water. Just emptying skimmer cups, salt creep, acclimating new fish/inverts, all require water replacement. Nobody can do this. If you dig in enough, you can find some.
All of the systems that are no water change, are misrepresenting the truth. They all will change water when they need to, they just don't do it regularly. Some do massive (like 50-75%) resets once a year and still call things no water change. Some of the vendors that post or do videos about no water changes actually ship out hundreds of gallons of water a month in bags that they have to replace. The term "no water change" is more to drive clicks and views than truth, IMO.
Dutch Synthetic Reefing is perhaps the oldest method of limited water changes, but they still will change water when they have to. They just don't do them regularly. They are very clear about this. These folks work hard and spend a lot of money not to regularly change water.
None of these systems are less work. You cannot be lazy and expect any method to work. DSR requires more work than changing water for most - DSR is a lifestyle reefing type of thing, not a time saver.
Every time that you feed your fish, you introduce trace elements including harsh metals into your tank. These need to get exported. You don't have to change water to do this, but you have to do something. Water changes do work well for this. Skimmers work well too. If you just introduce and never export, you end up with a landfill.
First, there is no such thing as NEVER changing water. Just emptying skimmer cups, salt creep, acclimating new fish/inverts, all require water replacement. Nobody can do this. If you dig in enough, you can find some.
All of the systems that are no water change, are misrepresenting the truth. They all will change water when they need to, they just don't do it regularly. Some do massive (like 50-75%) resets once a year and still call things no water change. Some of the vendors that post or do videos about no water changes actually ship out hundreds of gallons of water a month in bags that they have to replace. The term "no water change" is more to drive clicks and views than truth, IMO.
Dutch Synthetic Reefing is perhaps the oldest method of limited water changes, but they still will change water when they have to. They just don't do them regularly. They are very clear about this. These folks work hard and spend a lot of money not to regularly change water.
None of these systems are less work. You cannot be lazy and expect any method to work. DSR requires more work than changing water for most - DSR is a lifestyle reefing type of thing, not a time saver.
Every time that you feed your fish, you introduce trace elements including harsh metals into your tank. These need to get exported. You don't have to change water to do this, but you have to do something. Water changes do work well for this. Skimmers work well too. If you just introduce and never export, you end up with a landfill.
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Clowny1221
Community Member
Thank you for the clear insight to things. Now I do understand what “no water change” means. I am planning to do a 17 gallon tank, wave maker, and live rock. Add a pair of clownfish and some corals. Would monthly water change be suitable?
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