Struggling to maintain Alkalinity and calcium

[Reefering1]

What better time to start practicing dosing and testing now, before you invest in corals?

You will need to test regardless of whether you supply alk via water changes vs alkalinity solutions.

There are also very easy calculators to find the exact dosing amounts per system gallons: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator/alkalinity-calculator-reef

Testing and dosing is not as difficult as you make it out to be IMO. I think measuring, mixing, and changing large volumes of water is MUCH more laborious.

Of course, it’s the OP’s decision at the end, But let’s not make him feel powerless to testing and dosing. He can do it. He’s capable.

You are correct.. My only disagreement is that 1) there are living corals in the tank. 2) sounds like op is blindly dosing by hand(not spread out) likely having precipitation events. 3)if he were to do w/c while master testing, he would see the demand(drop) everyday between water changes. Once testing is consistent enough to recognize that daily drop, he can start experimenting with dosing small amounts and seeing the results in his tests. Its not hard at all but consistent testing results are a baseline. Like I said you are not wrong at all, but why not do a some water changes to get everything back in line and more testing practice?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

BRS Pharma Calcium & Alkalinity Total Package Instructions

Soda Ash Instructions Calcium Chloride Instructions Magnesium Mix Instructions BRS Total Package kits include Pharma Calcium, Pharma Alkalinity, and Pharma Magnesium additives that can be mixed with RODI water to make three different solutions that you can dose to your coral

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think the issue is we forget what it is like to having no idea about maintaining parameters. There is no guidelines here on how to do it . Where even to get the information to maintain the parameters. How to figure out what amount of what is needed and what the best way to go about it.

You just may not be looking in the right places.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

You just may not be looking in the right places.

Hi Randy, I meant on this post. No guiding where the op could find the info.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK,

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Water changes are great for many reasons, but for simply maintaining alkalinity is not a wise choice. It is much more difficult to make RO/DI water and buying expensive salt than it is for adding some arm and hammer baking soda to a tank. There is also no harm in adding carbonate and bicarbonate to a tank. That’s how most of us do it.

I believe OP should do occasional water changes, definitely, but for the sole sake of maintaining alkalinity? I wouldn’t.

Yes, of course. I still do water changes for detritus and if my nitrates get above 5 ppm

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Both valid points. I may be wrong, but i assume anyone dosing fusion 1&2 as per"max dose" may not be very experienced. Couple that with low demand and small tank, it may be easiest to change water to stay in range. Not the cheapest but definitely easier to correct and maintain balance while practicing testing and dosing. Not like it's a tank full of acros that consume fast and may be bothered by w/c parameters fluctuations

It is my first tank, yes. But I definitely don't want to be changing large amount every day on a 40 gallon. Especially since I struggle to keep up nitrates where I want them as is. I have a small RODI system. Not feasible for me to be doing water changes frequently. My demand seems to be about .7 dkh a day, based on daily testing while I get it figured out.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

I think the issue is we forget what it is like to having no idea about maintaining parameters. There is no guidelines here on how to do it . Where even to get the information to maintain the parameters. How to figure out what amount of what is needed and what the best way to go about it. I see exactly the same problem happening again just with another product. Adding a calcium and alk booster based on the directions on a bottle will only get you in trouble. To the OP, first step is to figure out what your tank demand is. Is it .1 dkh per day? .7? Same with calcium. Test every day . With in a week you will know the demand of your tank. Then find a method for replacing cal AKC and mag that is predictable, measurable. There are reef calculators that will tell you exactly what is needed to peg a dkh, cal or mag level in your tank. First step is to know what it using per day.

Yes, thank you. I just started doing daily testing to figure this out and gave up hope on the bottle directions. It doesn't use near as much calcium but does suck up a surprising amount of alk considering it's just 6 small frags, a larger Kenya tree, and a bunch of red ogo. I'll keep up the daily testing and dosing slowly until I'm where I want to be.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

What better time to start practicing dosing and testing now, before you invest in corals?

You will need to test regardless of whether you supply alk via water changes vs alkalinity solutions.

There are also very easy calculators to find the exact dosing amounts per system gallons: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator/alkalinity-calculator-reef

Testing and dosing is not as difficult as you make it out to be IMO. I think measuring, mixing, and changing large volumes of water is MUCH more laborious.

Of course, it’s the OP’s decision at the end, But let’s not make him feel powerless to testing and dosing. He can do it. He’s capable.

*She haha. Yeah, I'm just fine with frequent testing and figuring out dosing. All the corals in the tank are hardy. Water changes are more time consuming than a 2 minute test and manually dosing small amounts a few times a day. Thank you for the calculator! I didn't quite trust it after the whole bottle directions mishap, but trial dosing over the past few days has proved it pretty accurate.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

You are correct.. My only disagreement is that 1) there are living corals in the tank. 2) sounds like op is blindly dosing by hand(not spread out) likely having precipitation events. 3)if he were to do w/c while master testing, he would see the demand(drop) everyday between water changes. Once testing is consistent enough to recognize that daily drop, he can start experimenting with dosing small amounts and seeing the results in his tests. Its not hard at all but consistent testing results are a baseline. Like I said you are not wrong at all, but why not do a some water changes to get everything back in line and more testing practice?

There are live corals, yes. All pretty hardy species, and they've been growing and fine, surprisingly but I of course want to get this solved for the long run. The two part system alkalinity was causing precipitation even with only a few drops. Baking soda causes no precipitation, even with a .5 dkh adjustment. I do half my alk in the morning, half at night, and calcium somewhere in the day when it's convenient. Magnesium is fine being replenished with water changes and is rarely dosed.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

What fo you have for demand and how much are you dosing? Pic of tank...

Demand seems to be about .7 dkh a day. I was dosing 20-30 mL of reef fusion 2 and 20 mL reef fusion 1. I'm not certain my calcium demand yet. The frequent precipitation was making it hard to judge, but I should have a better understanding with a different dosing strategy and testing daily to figure out demand. Thank you all!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Demand seems to be about .7 dkh a day. I was dosing 20-30 mL of reef fusion 2 and 20 mL reef fusion 1. I'm not certain my calcium demand yet. The frequent precipitation was making it hard to judge, but I should have a better understanding with a different dosing strategy and testing daily to figure out demand. Thank you all!

I expect calcium demand is about 5 ppm per day, unless you are using a sulfur denitrator or nitrate is rising or falling rapidly (or being dosed).

 

[CjAmaryllis]

I expect calcium demand is about 5 ppm per day, unless you are using a sulfur denitrator or nitrate is rising or falling rapidly (or being dosed).

From the last 4 days, it seems to be 10-13 ppm. I don't use anything but plants and water changes for nitrates. It's stayed pretty consistently between 2-5 for the past couple months. I'm more surprised at the amount of Alkalinity that gets used!

 

[MnFish1]

Question - when you say 'precipitation' - do you mean transient cloudiness of the water that then dissipates? Or do you mean there is hard areas in your sand, sump, etc - where it is actually precipitate. Second - are you adding both at the same time in the same place? If so that can lead to precipitation as well. Third - are you testing your calcium/alkalinity at the same time of day? Also, I might suggest you use Randy's dosing method (I believe the same one is sold by BRS) since it's cheaper in all likelihood. I'm surprised that you have that much alkalinity demand given what you described your tank as. Have you tried not dosing anything, and merely testing the alkalinity daily for a week or so?

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Question - when you say 'precipitation' - do you mean transient cloudiness of the water that then dissipates? Or do you mean there is hard areas in your sand, sump, etc - where it is actually precipitate. Second - are you adding both at the same time in the same place? If so that can lead to precipitation as well. Third - are you testing your calcium/alkalinity at the same time of day? Also, I might suggest you use Randy's dosing method (I believe the same one is sold by BRS) since it's cheaper in all likelihood. I'm surprised that you have that much alkalinity demand given what you described your tank as. Have you tried not dosing anything, and merely testing the alkalinity daily for a week or so?

Good questions!
I get this weird like snow looking cloudiness that does not dissipate for a few hours. It's not just sort of milky looking, but more like small chunks that float around haha. Some of it sits at the surface and gets skimmed out. I don't have a sump, but I don't get hard bits or anything. I assumed it was precipitation because calcium and Alkalinity would both drop faster with dosing the reef fusion 2 part than without.
I wasn't adding them at the same time. Usually a few hours in between, in different parts of the tank.

If I don't dose at all, calcium drops about 10-13 ppm a day, and Alkalinity about .6-.7 dkh. I test usually around 9 am.

 

[MnFish1]

Good questions!
I get this weird like snow looking cloudiness that does not dissipate for a few hours. It's not just sort of milky looking, but more like small chunks that float around haha. Some of it sits at the surface and gets skimmed out. I don't have a sump, but I don't get hard bits or anything. I assumed it was precipitation because calcium and Alkalinity would both drop faster with dosing the reef fusion 2 part than without.
I wasn't adding them at the same time. Usually a few hours in between, in different parts of the tank.

If I don't dose at all, calcium drops about 10-13 ppm a day, and Alkalinity about .6-.7 dkh. I test usually around 9 am.

Interesting. So I guess I would hope @Randy Holmes-Farley will comment - BUT - if your alkalinity is stable when you dose, then at least some of the stuff you're putting in is not precipitating. What is the longest that you've gone without dosing? Something doesn't make complete sense (to me) - unless you perhaps have a lot of coralline algae - or your coral frags are growing like crazy.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Interesting. So I guess I would hope @Randy Holmes-Farley will comment - BUT - if your alkalinity is stable when you dose, then at least some of the stuff you're putting in is not precipitating. What is the longest that you've gone without dosing? Something doesn't make complete sense (to me) - unless you perhaps have a lot of coralline algae - or your coral frags are growing like crazy.

I do have Coralline popping up all of a sudden, and my frags are not more than a month old, but there's noticeable growth. The supposed slow growing Florida ricordia has probably grown 50% in a few weeks.
I've gone about 5 days without dosing. Once it got below 6 dkh, I wasn't willing to not dose longer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

From the last 4 days, it seems to be 10-13 ppm. I don't use anything but plants and water changes for nitrates. It's stayed pretty consistently between 2-5 for the past couple months. I'm more surprised at the amount of Alkalinity that gets used!

I don't think our kits are good enough to really show that alk and calcium demand are mismatched as much as you suggest over a few days period, but I don't know which is most off. it also doesn't really matter what one supposes the demand is, jsut how it is tweaked to maintain the levels you want.

That said, the mismatch is too little alk for that calcium demand, not too much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good questions!
I get this weird like snow looking cloudiness that does not dissipate for a few hours. It's not just sort of milky looking, but more like small chunks that float around haha.

It's either magnesium hydroxide, that will redissolve, or calcium carbonate, that won't.

If you want to reduce that effect, You might add it more slowly, more diluted, to a higher flow area, or switch to a lower pH version using baking soda.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

It's either magnesium hydroxide, that will redissolve, or calcium carbonate, that won't.

If you want to reduce that effect, You might add it more slowly, more diluted, to a higher flow area, or switch to a lower pH version using baking soda.

Interesting!
I will probably stick with baking soda from now on. Thanks for your time and energy, Randy!