struggling with sps lately

[Merlin3]

So I have been losing several of my sps lately. The tank is a 140 rimless and a 50 gallon sump, and my calcium and alkalinity usage has gone down drastically for whatever reason. I have been experiencing really slow growth and polyp extension on most of my sps now for quite a while. I typically keep my tank at alk 9, calcium 450, mag is usually around 14-1500, 0 nitrate,0 phosphate. I decided to experiment with dosing nitrate in the form of the stump remover. I got it dialed in fairly well and got nitrates settled in around 5 and phospates went up to around .03 as i was feeding more too. Well then I started to have a couple sps suddenly bleach on me and everything started to look worse. I stopped dosing nitrate and I have had to stop dosing calcium and alkalinity as my corals are not using pretty much anything. My calcium is now up to 500 and alk around 10. I have always these dialed in fairly well and now its like they arent being used. Out of frustration I just did a 60 gallon water change to try to get whatever is in the tank out and all sps are still going down hill. I haven't dosed any calcium in like 3 weeks and it still hasn't really gone down. The tank has a wide variety of corals from lps,zoas/palys, and sps and sps are the only thing doing bad. I sent in a triton test like 2 months ago and still haven't gotten the results back yet but have most test kits. please help

 

[Vaughn17]

What lights are you using? If it's a T-5, check to make certain the bulbs are still producing quality light. Although, I don't think you would see bleaching from dying bulbs.

 

[Lovemycj7]

Sorry to hear imnew to the sps game so can't help but verified no pests? Bump up hope you get the help you need.

 

[Vaughn17]

Your PO4 is low, too. I try to keep my phosphates around .1 ppm and NO3 between 2.5 and five.

 

[Merlin3]

I am using the so26 led lights. Low phosphate shouldnt cause coral bleaching though i wouldnt think. Ive always read not to have phosphate above .03 though. Ive been doing saltwater for over 20 years but have just started getting into more sps over the last year. Easy sps do fine like stylos and such but ive lost most of my high end stuff lately. Ive also struggled with color in my sps as they will often brown out. Ive tried a few coral foods as well but whatever it is i can't find the answer to my problem.

 

[Vaughn17]

I've starved some acros to death in the past with low (i.e. practically no) nutrients. More than just some, actually, lol. I don't recall that any looked bleached before they began stn-ing; however, they definitely had lost their coloration. I've heard others say that their acros looked pale or bleached from low nutrients. The coral's zoox are what is feeding off the nutrients and other food the coral takes in, so it makes sense that if the coral is starving it might start consuming zoox to sustain itself. The coral's tissue is reputedly white, so minus its normal zoox population, you'd think it would start to look bleached. Just my opinion.

Since you're an experienced reefer, I'm assuming that you checked for flatworms, already. Also, do your LEDs have some UV diodes? Acros really love UV light. Here's one more possibility; I dose NO3, too. I started out using stump remover, but after four months my potassium was at 460 ppm, which is getting high, so I switched to sodium nitrate. Also, stump remover is not food grade so it has impurities (the sodium nitrate I use is food grade, purchased on Amazon). Sorry, I'm not more helpful. Good luck with your acros and don't give up!

 

[3mm3]

What do you keep your ph at?

 

[Merlin3]

My ph is around 8-8.2, i noticed my lps looked happier for the few weeks i was dosing nitrates but the sps did not.

 

[Stigigemla]

I do not beleive it is the Phosphate or nitrate. You have normal values as many others with success.
It can be parasites if it is only some Acroporas. Have you changed the light lately? Increased white or uv?
If the bleaching corals are in low flow it might below nutrition / too much light.
In order cases I would say poisoning. One or two bags of cuprisorb could be a good ideer.
I have a good friend who was losing practically all corals. When he took down the tank to sell it he found a brass screw in the back of the tank. He had some builders at home earlier to renovate the rail of the stairs and the tank was just under it.

 

[Tek]

Seems like low nutrients. I came across the same issue when I first went all SPS.

Remove any carbon and raise nitrates up naturally by a number of means. Add fish, feed more, reduce skimming, reduce frequency of water changes.

 

[LostInTheDark]

I am using the so26 led lights

These lights caused the same thing in my tank. Take a look at the blue bulbs. You will probably find that they are giving almost no light at all. You can usually see a black dot on the bulbs that are burnt out. It is a known defect with these lights.
I replaced mine with T5s because I just don't trust LEDs anymore. T5s are plug and play with no worries about adjusting for par.

 

[ps2cho]

I would start broadcast feeding coral food twice a week to help ensure it's to a lack of nutrients issue. If your dosing NO3 and it's getting uptaken within a few hours and you have no algae then you know it's a lack of nutrients

 

[BluewaterLa]

Having lack of nutrients for a long enough period to pale out your sps with nothing to supplement their feeding combined with high light intensity has the sps in a weakens unhealthy state.
Essentially can stop growing so no use of calcium or alkalinity will cause your parameters to rise.
The rise in alkalinity will be too much for them to handle and they will start to perish.

I agree with others to balance out your nutrient input to the tank with more fish or decrease water changes and skimming

 

[bubbaque]

Do you have any pictures of the sps?

 

[Merlin3]

I will try to get some current pics, I have lost like 4 frags in the last couple weeks. They were just losing color and no polyp extension but i believe my alk climbing caused me to lose a few. I stopped dosing the nitrate as things weren't doing better. I get some brown algae on the glass after a few days and I get little tufts of hair algae on the return pipes but no other bad algae. My chaeto grows like crazy so I have to prune it back every couple weeks. I don't think it's the lights as a friend that operates a nice business selling frags out of his house uses these lights and his sps colors and polp extension are fantastic. Here's a few pics from a couple weeks ago and everything looks worse now. most of these frags have been in the tank for months. Tank has been up for a couple years. The one bigger coral in the pic you can see has started losing tissue all of sudden and it was growing nice and had good color and now its dying.

 

[LostInTheDark]

I don't think it's the lights

Easy enough to check. Look for black dots on the diodes. If they are there your lights are not working to potential.
Its not something you can tell just from looking at the tank. LEDs are very deceptive that way.

 

[mcarroll]

I have been experiencing really slow growth and polyp extension on most of my sps now for quite a while.

I decided to experiment with dosing nitrate in the form of the stump remover.

I started to have a couple sps suddenly bleach on me and everything started to look worse.

That's textbook eutrophication.

A nitrogen spike causes a bloom of growth which causes PO4 to become unavailable. B. A. D.

PO4 is one of the most crucial elements on the reef. Having it become locally unavailable causes REAL problems up and down the food chain on the reef and in our tanks. (Some links coming...)

Add PO4 and things will start turning around.

But make all changes SMALL.

And wait at least WEEKS – more than one week; 3+ weeks isn't a bad idea – between changes before deciding to make another change.

Having consistent nutrients is a lot more important than test numbers when you have a new tank starting out.

Starting out is a tough time cuz you spend a lot of time modeling after other reefers...and everyone is constantly battling algae. Not very good examples to follow unless you're trying to become an algae-battler!!! LOL

As a consequence, you see lots of reefers set up a brand new system that's running GAC, GFO and bio-pellets from Day One. That's no way to balance nutrients.

Look over the Nutrients section on my blog or just do a search for "phosphates" for a bunch of interesting reading related to this, such as:

• Limited phosphorus availability is the Achilles heel of tropical reef corals in a warming ocean
• Results of the 1991 United States-Israel Workshop, “Nutrient Limitations in the Symbiotic Association between Zooxanthellae and Reef-building Corals”
• Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation

A short-and-sweet quote from that 1991 Workshop:

"...a minimal concentration of inorganic phosphorus, which remains to be determined, is required to avoid bleaching."​

All those links...and most of the rest from that section...are pretty good! Click em!

Although, I don't think you would see bleaching from dying bulbs.

They might if you turned around and eutrophied the water (can I say that???) at the same time....high light (which is their natural carbon source via the zooxanthellae) AND high PO4 is what lets them tolerate high nitrogen.

Easy sps do fine like stylos and such but ive lost most of my high end stuff lately.

Stylo's and most "beginner" stony corals definitely tolerate a lot more than some corals.

I can't remember if I have a link on the blog for this, but there's a theory of ecological strategy that says organisms fall into three life strategies, based on environemental possibilities. They are either pioneers, stress tolerators, or competitors.

When we make mistakes on our systems (inevitable) it causes stress....and stress is what can force these ecological strategies to the be engaged.

Styo's and the beginner corals I mentioned seem to be good stress tolerators, for example.

The corals that you've seen fade away were more likely to be pioneers....not very amenable to stress or competition, but very often fast growers!

Competitors are very often the undesirables.

Of course these are all ecological strategies....all organisms tolerate stress and compete on a day to day basis. Some organisms take one of the aspects to another level when stress is applied though.

(Not to be over-critical, but it sounds like you might have gotten off to a start with corals that was a little too much, too fast. Gotta leave room in the timeline for these mistakes! )

I don't think it's the lights as a friend that operates a nice business selling frags out of his house uses these lights and his sps colors and polp extension are fantastic.

Unless your friend uses your lights in his biz you might at least look and see if your blues are burned out at all.

If you have a light meter, you could just aim it at the lights and compare to your old readings from when you set up the lights.

If you don't have a light meter, you should know that a lux meter is only $10-$15, delivered – and works just fine for this kind of thing. (PAR meter is nice if you have access, but not strictly necessary. And expensive.)

 

[bblumberg]

We have had a lot of recent chloramine issues in Southern California that have caused SPS to STN in well-established tanks of expert reefers. The levels are too low to measure using standard kits, but many have reported that their SPS issues went away when an extra chloramine block was added to their RO-DI systems. A quick and easy test would be to put some sodium thiosulfate (~5 ppm) in your aquarium and makeup water (or use a water conditioner that contains it). It is harmless and will get rid of any chloramine issues. If your corals improve, then you know this is an area to focus on. If not, then you have only spent a few $ and eliminated one potential source of trouble.

Bruce

 

[mcarroll]

We have had a lot of recent chloramine issues

+1 and interesting!

I'd hope a call to the local water authority could get a confirmation on that as well.

 

[Merlin3]

I am on a well and use the 5 stage bulk reef supply rodi unit. Thanks for the links mcarroll I will read them over. I had read about the redfield ratio and such but like I said I tried raising nitrates and phosphates for a few weeks but was having worse results so not sure if I raised them too fast or what.