struggling with sps lately
- Thread starter Merlin3
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If they give accurate information. One person having a problem called Golden State Water to ask and was told that they do not add chloramine to the water they supply. This is technically correct, but their web site clearly states that water they purchase from the Metropolitan Water District contains chloramines so the stuff is there, even though GSW doesn't add it themselves. These days, it is probably best to assume chloramines are in municipal water and act accordingly, whether it is with aggressive carbon pre-filters or prophylactically adding a few PPM of sodium thiosulfate.
Bruce
mcarroll
10K Club member
Right....I would hope that was an unintentional slip on GSW's part or perhaps the result of a strangely worded question though. They are still responsible for the water in the pipes after all. 
(At least we hope!)
(At least we hope!)
Vaughn17
Well-Known Member
Not quite textbook Eutrophication (in which excess nutrients added to a waterbody causes excess growth of macrophytes, phytoplankton, etc. which eventually die off, causing O2 levels to be depleted, which results in the death of aquatic life. In my region, happens in the Hood Canal occasionally when huge algae blooms die off in the summer, although lack of water mixing is also thought to be a factor), but your observation is spot on. I think PO4 is the limiting nutrient in our reef tanks. I think a lot of reefers with successfully sps dominate tanks are feeding the hell out of their fast growing sps but, at the end of the day PO4 levels are almost zero, which isn't really indicative of their tanks true nutrient level because phosphates are being exhausted so quickly. So then others set up their tanks with those low nutrient levels, minus the heavy feeding, and everything looks mighty unhappy or dies.That's textbook eutrophication.
A nitrogen spike causes a bloom of growth which causes PO4 to become unavailable. B. A. D.
PO4 is one of the most crucial elements on the reef. Having it become locally unavailable causes REAL problems up and down the food chain on the reef and in our tanks. (Some links coming...)
Add PO4 and things will start turning around.
But make all changes SMALL.
And wait at least WEEKS – more than one week; 3+ weeks isn't a bad idea – between changes before deciding to make another change.
Having consistent nutrients is a lot more important than test numbers when you have a new tank starting out.
Starting out is a tough time cuz you spend a lot of time modeling after other reefers...and everyone is constantly battling algae. Not very good examples to follow unless you're trying to become an algae-battler!!! LOL
As a consequence, you see lots of reefers set up a brand new system that's running GAC, GFO and bio-pellets from Day One. That's no way to balance nutrients.
Look over the Nutrients section on my blog or just do a search for "phosphates" for a bunch of interesting reading related to this, such as:
A short-and-sweet quote from that 1991 Workshop:
- Limited phosphorus availability is the Achilles heel of tropical reef corals in a warming ocean
- Results of the 1991 United States-Israel Workshop, “Nutrient Limitations in the Symbiotic Association between Zooxanthellae and Reef-building Corals”
- Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation
"...a minimal concentration of inorganic phosphorus, which remains to be determined, is required to avoid bleaching."
All those links...and most of the rest from that section...are pretty good! Click em!
They might if you turned around and eutrophied the water (can I say that???) at the same time....high light (which is their natural carbon source via the zooxanthellae) AND high PO4 is what lets them tolerate high nitrogen.
Stylo's and most "beginner" stony corals definitely tolerate a lot more than some corals.
I can't remember if I have a link on the blog for this, but there's a theory of ecological strategy that says organisms fall into three life strategies, based on environemental possibilities. They are either pioneers, stress tolerators, or competitors.
When we make mistakes on our systems (inevitable) it causes stress....and stress is what can force these ecological strategies to the be engaged.
Styo's and the beginner corals I mentioned seem to be good stress tolerators, for example.
The corals that you've seen fade away were more likely to be pioneers....not very amenable to stress or competition, but very often fast growers!
Competitors are very often the undesirables.
Of course these are all ecological strategies....all organisms tolerate stress and compete on a day to day basis. Some organisms take one of the aspects to another level when stress is applied though.
(Not to be over-critical, but it sounds like you might have gotten off to a start with corals that was a little too much, too fast. Gotta leave room in the timeline for these mistakes!
Unless your friend uses your lights in his biz you might at least look and see if your blues are burned out at all.
If you have a light meter, you could just aim it at the lights and compare to your old readings from when you set up the lights.
If you don't have a light meter, you should know that a lux meter is only $10-$15, delivered – and works just fine for this kind of thing. (PAR meter is nice if you have access, but not strictly necessary. And expensive.)
Like you ecological strategy theory, too!
mcarroll
10K Club member
I hate to disagree with your example cuz I don't disagree overall with anything you said!
But this was pretty textbook. (BTW, if there's an actual textbook, I don't know anything about it.....that's just a turn of phrase.)
Good link: Trophic state index
Eutrophication's etymology is "well fed".
I think how it plays out with O2 depletion, etc in your example is particular to the instance you cited and others like it vs being universal.
Our little tanks are very well oxygenated and we don't track O2 levels.....so it may be happening on some level and we don't detect it, or O2-depletion might never happen due to the circumstances.
mcarroll
10K Club member
You will probably like where I got it:
Evidence for the Existence of Three Primary Strategies in Plants and Its Relevance to Ecological and Evolutionary Theory
Vaughn17
Well-Known Member
The definition I gave was an extreme example, for sure. In my field, waterbodies, in particular lakes, are referred to as being eutrophic if they have higher levels of nutrients and primary production (as compared to the lake's historic olgiotrophic state). The whole O2 depletion and die off is a worst case scenerio. I agree that our tanks might be O2 depleted...good point! Okay, back to work.I hate to disagree with your example cuz I don't disagree overall with anything you said!
But this was pretty textbook. (BTW, if there's an actual textbook, I don't know anything about it.....that's just a turn of phrase.)
Good link: Trophic state index
Eutrophication's etymology is "well fed".
I think how it plays out with O2 depletion, etc in your example is particular to the instance you cited and others like it vs being universal.
Our little tanks are very well oxygenated and we don't track O2 levels.....so it may be happening on some level and we don't detect it, or O2-depletion might never happen due to the circumstances.
Syntax1235
Valuable Member
How's your coralline look? Growing with good color? Paled out? Dying off?
Vaughn17
Well-Known Member
You're blog was interesting, but I'm unfamiliar with the American Naturalist.
OP
OP
Merlin3
Active Member
My fish load is: pair of bangaii cardinals that have babies quite frequently, yellow tang, blue tang, mandarin, potters angel, flame angel, couple clown gobies. The tangs are only a few inches. All fish have been in at least 9 months with most longer. I had a purple tang and a couple other fish but i have lost some due to jumping out. Looking for a healthy small purple tang currently and maybe a couple other fish to increase bioload.
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