Belgian Anthias
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Is that a problem in a reef aquarium which can not be solved?
It may happen constantly when a nitrifying biofilm grows on aragonite sand,
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Sulphur in the reefaquarium
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Is that a problem in a reef aquarium which can not be solved?
It may happen constantly when a nitrifying biofilm grows on aragonite sand,
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Yes, as I said, the fundamental sulfur process depletes alkalinity, and if you couple that with something that adds back that alkalinity and at the same time adding calcium, the calcium will rise.
That's really no better than upping your daily dose of calcium and alk however you normally add it, but in all cases, calcium will rise unless you up the alk and not the calcium.
It's certainly a manageable problem, and is not the only reason I prefer organic carbon dosing.
That's really no better than upping your daily dose of calcium and alk however you normally add it, but in all cases, calcium will rise unless you up the alk and not the calcium.
It's certainly a manageable problem, and is not the only reason I prefer organic carbon dosing.
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No, it's not a problem that cannot be solved. It's also a problem that is easily avoided by using a different method entirely. lol
Sure. Just like claiming that nitrification depletes alkalinity. But the consumption of nitrate in ANY fashion aside from the sulfur system will give that alkalinity back.
Belgian Anthias
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Yes, as I said, the fundamental sulfur process depletes alkalinity, and if you couple that with something that adds back that alkalinity and at the same time adding calcium, the calcium will rise.
That's really no better than upping your daily dose of calcium and alk however you normally add it, but in all cases, calcium will rise unless you up the alk and not the calcium.
It's certainly a manageable problem, and is not the only reason I prefer organic carbon dosing.
BADES can not be used for managing the calcium content, it is not intended. I do not know why this should be an issue! But the calcium production is a nice side effect. I do not regard free calcium as a problem, on the contrary. But as it is an important side effect it must be covered. Alkalinity and calcium is part of the normal maintenance of a reef aquarium .
The nitrate house holding in a zero output closed marine system ( ZMAS)? We made studies of most possibilities, also carbon dosing. Of pro's and con's.
The aim was to find a method which gave us full control over the nitrogen content in a ZMAS, supporting the bio-load from low to high, growing with the system , is easily managed and safe to use.
A sulfur denitrator has no similarities with these wishes. But we started from there for our research about BADES.
Let it be clear that I have no commercial interests by promoting BADES. I do not. I just mention the facts, the results of our studies and research, which may be consulted in our wiki Makazi Baharini.
By using a BADES bio-filter the carrying capacity, the max bio-load of the system, can easily be adjusted to the demand .
A BADESSystem will support future increase of the bio load., animals grow and multiply, preventing nitrate build up at any bio-load in a mixed reef aquarium.
A BADES biofilter removes ammonia-nitrogen and nitrate -nitrogen simultaneously from the system.
In a BADESS the nitrogen removal rate can be controlled and managed easily, maintaining the nitrate level at the level as desired by the manager.
Using a BADES -biofilter or -biofilm reactor nitrate build up is prevented at all time as produced nitrate will be removed before it may become part of the total nitrogen content .
Using BADES the nitrogen cycle can be closed by effectively removing the daily nitrogen overproduction daily, every day.
A BADES reactor may become self regulating, maintaining the desired nitrate level without any human interference.
The nitrogen content in the system is never depleted.
There is nothing to dose!
The risk for Human error is minimized.
Full controllability over the nitrogen content is maid possible !
A BADESS is reliable and safe to use.
The caveats of BADES are known, controllable or automatically compensated .
A BADESS supports alk.
A BADESS produces calcium
The BADES process produces sulphate.
We can back up all the above by proper research and references consultable in our Makazi Baharini wiki.
Non of the above is true for dosing carbon!
I do not find any similarities between carbon dosing and the possibilities and certainties offered by the use of BADES .
The more research we do about carbon dosing the more we get convinced that it is not safe to use. The high human risk factor and the role of a high C:N ratio in a closed system may create a very unsafe situation in a live support system. But as with a sulphur denitrator, there should be no problem when used correctly. For carbon dosing this involves correct dosing avoiding a high C:N ratio at all times.
Anyway, carbon dosing can not be used for the purpose we have in mind. It is not a choice we have to make. To make good choices one must be informed correctly!
You prefer carbon dosing for storing nitrogen in the system and feed corals this way! . ok,
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Belgian Anthias
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.
In a BADESS autotrophic nitrification and mixotrophic denitrification takes place simultaneously with minor effect on alkalinty. The presence of sulphur does not prevent heterotropic denitrification which is in the same range as without any sulphur added, depending of the anoxic zones present and the usable organics. The heterotropic denitrification part may be estimated to be +- 15% of total denitrification, when hydrogen produced is used by the heterotrops the calcium production is limited .
Nitrate removal in ANY fashion, including in a BADES bio-filter, does support alk. The nitrogen removed can not be recycled and will not influence alk any more in any way.
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Belgian Anthias
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The BADES process produces sulphate.
It is a fact sulphate is held back in the calcium columns used in SLAD systems but also in marine BADES systems . In SLAD sulphate is bound to produced calcium making gipsum which is sometimes responsible for obstructions.
It is a fact sulphate precipitates on the chalk used in marine BADESSystems as the sulphate content of the chalk increases with the time of use from +- 200mg/gram to +- 400mg/gram, which is a lot. How and why this precipitation takes place is for me still a mystery I want to solve.
It is a fact sulphate is held back in the calcium columns used in SLAD systems but also in marine BADES systems . In SLAD sulphate is bound to produced calcium making gipsum which is sometimes responsible for obstructions.
It is a fact sulphate precipitates on the chalk used in marine BADESSystems as the sulphate content of the chalk increases with the time of use from +- 200mg/gram to +- 400mg/gram, which is a lot. How and why this precipitation takes place is for me still a mystery I want to solve.
Belgian Anthias
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So, it is supposed when Sulphur is added to a marine aquarium the nitrogen content can be managed easily and the best thing is one does not need any equipment. To have full control over the nitrate level BADES is aplied in a refugium. For full control over the nitrogen cycle one needs a reactor.
Mix some elemental sulphur with some calcium carbonate media 1/1, put it in a small filter bag +- 5cm 2" diameter and hang it up in the water, that is all to get the answer.
Or a layer of +- 3cm on the bottom of a refuge or sump . Making a square on the bottom with filter-mat cuttings +-2- 3cm high for holding the media and fill it up with the media mix. The water must flow over the filter media not true it.
Mix some elemental sulphur with some calcium carbonate media 1/1, put it in a small filter bag +- 5cm 2" diameter and hang it up in the water, that is all to get the answer.
Or a layer of +- 3cm on the bottom of a refuge or sump . Making a square on the bottom with filter-mat cuttings +-2- 3cm high for holding the media and fill it up with the media mix. The water must flow over the filter media not true it.
Belgian Anthias
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Till know the sulphate production of BADES has never been reported to be a problem in a marine system. When BADES is used to make drinking water from groundwater with a very high nitrate content the sulphate content must sometimes be adjusted to comply with the imposed drinking water standards.
The sulphate content may rise very slowly in a mixed reef aquarium and it may take years without water changes to reach the natural level when a low sulphate salt mix is used. Doing water changes with a salt mix low in sulphate, such as Colombo, will prevent sulphate to build up if this would be a concern.
Hi Belgian Anthias,
So the difference between a normal sulfur denitrator and the BADES system is just the flow rate going through the reactor? A higher flow rate that keeps the reactor not anoxic is the goal for BADESS?
Also, I could also just place some sulfur media inside a mesh bag in the sump and it would function similarly as well but not as controlled? Is that correct?
So the difference between a normal sulfur denitrator and the BADES system is just the flow rate going through the reactor? A higher flow rate that keeps the reactor not anoxic is the goal for BADESS?
Also, I could also just place some sulfur media inside a mesh bag in the sump and it would function similarly as well but not as controlled? Is that correct?
Belgian Anthias
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Not exactly.. the reactor must be big enough !
A bag must be very fine mesh to hold the sulphur mix .
A BADES reactor is started up with low flow to install the denitrification capacity by following the MAAO method and gradually increased . Is used to lower a high nitrate level fast and to maintain the desired target level. Does not influence the carrying capacity much. All Nitrate-nitrogen entered is removed and exported.
A BADES biofilm reactor is started up as a normal bio-reactor for installing the nitrification capacity needed. Then the flow is gradually reduced until the nitrate level of the effluent is a bit lower as the level in the in-fluent. This way in the reactor by nitrification produced nitrate is removed and a bit more to reduce the level in the system. Is used to lower and maintain the desired nitrate level. Will increase the carrying capacity . Ammonium- and nitrate-nitrogen is removed and exported
Using BADES columns it is important the water flow is not forced true the media. The columns have a diameter between 4 and 5 cm ( 2 inch). Will remove and export in the columns produced nitrate-nitrogen. Will increase the carrying capacity.
Also a layer of +- 4cm between two filter pads will do.
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I have been reading your posts here and on the other forums for a few hours now and I think I get the point you are trying to make. You need to have 1% of your water volume in sulfur media which you run in the tank at a higher flow rate vs normal sulfur denitrators. You let the flow of water run faster so that it does not become anoxic and since the volume of the sulfur is high, even though oxygen is present, there will still be enough anaerobic areas in the sulfur media to manage the nitrates in the tank.
When the nitrates are high in the tank, a lower flow is needed to lower the oxygen and allow for more anaerobic space in the sulfur media. When the nitrates are low in the tank, the flow should be increased so the anaerobic areas decrease in relation to the available nitrates in the tank and more nitrates are made available to the reactor.
Is my understanding correct? I tried to log in the site you linked. I registered but it still will not allow me to log in.
1. My question is how is this managed in large tanks? My tanks total water volume including the sump is around 600g which would mean i would need at least 6 gallons of sulfur media? I dont think there is a large enough reactor to hold 6 gallons of media unless customized. I have a calcium reactor with only 6L capacity I was planning to use for this purpose.
2. Also does the reactor need to be recirculating or not??
3. Also my system now runs macroalgae, skimmers, GAC, but not carbon dosing. I would like to add a sulfur denitrator to help with the nitrates from my heavy bioload. What about using a smaller reactor than 1% of the tank volume and adjusting only to the point where it is not anoxic it can contribute still to the nitrate reduction in the tank? Is this possible in BADES? I dont need it to be the only solution so any contributed to lowering nitrates for my tank is good enough.
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I am following this discussion. I want to try it on a small scale.
How old is your system?
How much substrate does the tank have? I am wondering if your substrate volume is 1%.
Any estimate on how much nitrate your macro algae is removing? I have sneaking suspicion that it removes much less than bacteria. Any thoughts?
I am also suspecting it removes a lot less than bacteria potentially. You would need a huge refugium for it to be able to keep up which is why I would also want to try a denitrator. Im not a big fan of carbon dosing so this would be the best way for me I think.
Right now im still preparing the calcium reactor i will modify and waiting for the sulphur i ordered to arrive. I was hoping to use less than 1%.. Maybe 0.5% of the tank volume.
The wrong type of bacteria might get fed and then multiply and start killing the corals. It also increases the DOC levels in the tank and unless it can be checked accurately, personally id much rather not. Thats about it.
For a 900gallon tank where I want the nitrates to go from 50ppm-60ppm to lets say just 10-15ppm, not necessarily to go as low as 1 or 2ppm, how much sulfur media would i be needing? If i follow the 1% recommendation, that would be 9 gallons of sulfur but unless i do a DIY, i think it would be hard to find a reactor that can do that much.
What amount of sulfur would be sufficient just to reduce the nitrates to that level? Would around 5 gallons do?
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Also, if I was checking ORP in the reactor, what reading should I be looking for? Should the reading stay in the positive? Or should i target something like -50mv which is higher than the -170mv I sometimes read in the forums?
Belgian Anthias
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A BADES reactor is easily made. Any container or jar with a big lid (for easy access) will do. As the reactor is not pressurized. The moving bed reactor is made with a closed loop.
It is not the level in your thank but the daily nitrate overproduction which is important to determine the amount of sulphur needed. In most cases a 1% reactor will do. Only a bit more as the daily nitrate overproduction must be removed to lower the level. The daily overproduction is measured over at least a week time. A sample in the morning just before lights on and 7 days or more days later an other sample at the same time of the day.
If a high nitrate level is present low flow is needed to remove the daily overproduction daily and not that much oxygen must be consumed. At a low nitrate level the flow may become very high to remove the daily nitrate overproduction daily which means a lot of oxygen must be consumed. That is why the reactor must be big enough. For example to lower the nitrate level from 10 ppm to 5 ppm the daily flow must be doubled to remove the same amount of nitrogen daily.
Applying the MAAO method for a BADES reactor O nitrate in the effluent is the target. But this is not the aim using a BADES biofilm reactor.
BADES columns work fine in seawater with a normal oxygen content
It is not possible to manage a BADES reactor correctly based on ORP reading . ORP reading is not very sensitive for oxygen content changes. A BADES biofilm reactor will work fine when the effluent still contains 2ppm of oxygen. Those who use ORP try to keep the reactor anoxic. Why using ORP reading for BADES?
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